Mongols Fined $500,000

May 17, 2019

All Posts, News

Mongols Fined $500,000

This morning, federal district judge David O. Carter fined the Mongols Motorcycle Club $500,000 plus interest at the “prevailing rate;” in monthly payments of no less than $8,475 starting in 30 days.

The current interest rate for a large, five-year, business loan is now about six percent. A six percent loan repaid over five years would add $80,000 to the penalty. Five percent would add about $66,000. Four percent adds $53,000. Your mother will charge you $27,000 interest over five years for a two-percent loan.

Carter refused to let the government encumber the Mongols collective membership marks, the club’s name, top rocker and back patch, in any way.

The government has been trying to seize ownership of the Mongols marks since October 2008 when Thomas P. O’Brien, who was then the United States Attorney for the Central District of California, promised that any cop anywhere would henceforward be free to stop any Mongol and rip the Mongols patch off his back. That is what government attorneys have been trying to do ever since and there have been at least eight judicial rulings against the idea. Carter has made four of them.

Bad Prosecutor No Wafer

Today the government asked Carter to award ownership of the marks to the government while the government simultaneously acted as if it didn’t own the marks at all.

The idea seems to have been borrowed from medieval Catholic theology. Faithful Catholics believe that when a priest says a certain prayer in communion the blood and wine he offers to congregants are essentially transformed into the blood and body of Christ – even though they still look, taste and smell like bread and wine. In 1274 St. Thomas tried to explain this anomaly in an essay called the Summa Theologica.

Steven Welk, who is the head of the property forfeiture section for the Central District, wanted to perform the same miracle on the Mongols marks. If the judge just said the proper words, Welk proposed, the Mongols marks would appear to be unchanged but would actually, according to the law, be profoundly different. Carter didn’t buy that. He called Welk’s proposal “a slippery slope.” So, the Mongols marks remain essentially, incidentally and immutably the Mongols marks.

Let’s Make Some Law!

Everybody in the hearing this morning expects this case to wind up in the Supreme Court. Carter assured the litigants that he plans to still be sitting behind the same bench when United States versus Mongol Nation comes bouncing back to him. Everything is up for grabs including the verdict and the punishment. Both sides have ten days to appeal.

Carter told Mongols president David Santillan that he had limited the monthly payments of the club’s fine to $8,475 a month so the Mongols would be able to afford a lawyer. The government, the judge said, “has unlimited resources.”

The question that drowned most of today’s sentencing hearing was the question of who will represent the motorcycle club next. Virtually the entire case has been handled by a very experienced, Los Angeles Attorney named Joseph Yanny. The Mongols Club is also represented by a Las Vegas personal injury attorney named Stephen “Bowtie” Stubbs.

Stubbs hasn’t been admitted to practice in the Central District or in California. Yanny sponsored Stubbs to serve as a visiting attorney, pro hoc vice, during the Mongol Nation trial. That almost certainly is about to end.


Stubbs, who isn’t technically Yanny’s client, fired Yanny late last month. Nobody told Carter that Yanny had been fired so Yanny remained the attorney of record for Mongol Nation. Late yesterday, after nobody had filed a reply to the government’s motion for a reconsideration of the patch forfeiture, which Carter had already denied, Yanny filed a reply – because, he said, somebody had to. About two hours later, sometime after six, Stubbs filed a document titled “A Statement of Candor.”

The statement contained a collection of lurid accusations against Yanny. It was embarrassing to hear. The judge seemed astounded by it and he treated Stubbs the way a very nice grandfather might treat a toddler who had thrown a tantrum in the middle of Disneyland.

Stubbs accused Yanny of accepting a $25,000 loan from a Mongols member in the middle of the trial. The member assigned that debt to the club. Then Yanny told Stubbs not to tell pretrial services about the asset – but to account for the money as a payment. But Stubbs felt morally compelled to tell the court what he thought was the truth lest pretrial services find out he had lied. He had to tell everyone in the world in open court about this Mongols asset that Yanny may or may not have told him to hide because it was the right thing to do.

According to Stubbs, Yanny had also threatened to commit suicide mid-trial.

More Melodrama

As the proceeding began, as Yanny tried to address the court, Stubbs interrupted him, a couple of times, and told Carter, “Mr. Yanny has been told not to speak. He is not speaking on behalf of the Mongol Nation. He is speaking for himself.”

Yanny accused Stubbs of wanting to “take over the trial so he could be out front with the press.” Yanny brought up an ethical violation that he described as Stubbs forging a client’s signature on a plea deal.

Stubbs told Carter he had been “basically” exonerated by a federal judge.

Carter asked him “Which judge.” Stubbs didn’t remember.

Carter wanted to know why Stubbs had filed his “Statement of Candor.”

“Now this is a public document,” Carter was amazed. “We could have handled all this in camera in a sealed hearing. Why did you do this? There are reporters here.”

Then Stubbs said the words nobody ever wants to ever hear a lawyer say in federal court. “I’m sorry your honor. It was an honest mistake. This isn’t what I do. I’m a club counsel.”

It wasn’t even worse than it sounds. It all must have gone on for an hour. It was like being a kid and going to a friends house for dinner and then having to watch his parents fight.

Waiting On Mister Green

The heart of the dispute between Yanny and the Mongols is a large pile of dollars. The Mongols believe Yanny agreed to handle the trial for a flat fee of $100,000. Yanny believes the Mongols agreed to pay him by the hour and now the club owes him $511,000.

“So if they pay you they are even more destitute,” Carter asked?

Yanny and Stubbs disagreed over whether the Mongols should or could pay a substantial fine. Yanny argued to the court that Mongol Nation should not be punished at all. “This club has suffered enough,” Yanny said.

Stubbs told the court the club was ready to accept its punishment.

Yanny thinks the debt he says the club owes him significantly diminished the Mongols ability to pay and should have at least been subtracted from their fine.

Stubbs was quite willing to assert that the club has a monthly income of $22,500 a month. The club is fundamentally, financially sound,” Stubbs told everybody. “The club has paid $960,000 in legal fees. Mostly from fundraisers.”

“See, even there own attorney admits they can pay,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Stephen Welk said.

Save The Patch

Stubbs argued against any attempt to seize the Mongols marks which is what everybody else has also been arguing about for a little longer than the average lifespan of a Pitbull.

“If the Mongols can’t protect their marks somebody might put it on a sex toy. Can you imagine that,” Stubbs asked.

Carter did not betray by his expression whether he was imagining a Mongols sex toy or not.

“I’m not going to stand here and say they can’t pay a fine,” Stubbs said. Then he suggested the judge impose a $50,000 fine. Carter decided to multiply that number by ten.

So now it appears the Mongols Motorcycle Club owes their former lawyer $500,000 and it also owes the government $500,000. Plus interest.

The club has ten days to find another lawyer who will handle the appeal.

The good news is that the Mongols patch is safe and every other club’s patch is safe. The bad news is a piece of advice Judge Carter gave Yanny near the end of the hearing. “You know, most defense lawyers know to get paid up front.”


24 Responses to “Mongols Fined $500,000”

  1. david Says:

    @ Raider , concerning dominoes,

    The dominoes fell a LONG time ago in THIS country. The following factual evidence supports the contention, but is not the only evidence of the fall.

    1) Benito Mussolini, in his book “On Fascism”, defined fascism as the MERGER of corporate for-profit business AND, a nation’s government.Being the large and total fascist he was, he knew the fascist ideology front to back and wrote a book on the subject.

    2) The U.S. congressional “revolving door” for greedy corporate businessmen traveling between congressional office AND corporate-board positions, and vice-versa exists, and began, many years ago.

    3) Corporate business representative are now, and HAVE been, the largest lobbyist group in D.C.,the District of Criminals.

    4) The 50 states themselves, are operated as business concerns with the profit motive being the chief interest, concern and reason for existence.

    5) The Nazi pricks of the BATF and FBI regularly entrap, set-up, frame and falsely accuse anyone they think they can get away with doing so.

    6) The fucking U.S.judiciary has a 98% conviction rate, greatly exceeding that of Nazi Germany 1933 to 1943.

    7) And last, but not least, in true fascist ideological fashion the U.S. nation(the state) is and has been elevated above and is more important than the individual, is preferred ABOVE the individual, and is considered supreme.

    If you will Raider, please provide evidence this country ain’t owned and operated by a bunch of fascist pricks.

  2. Penguin Says:

    I didn’t make the idea very clear. Let me put it this way. People believe what they will, and often share beliefs. A “church” arises as a consequence. The the ruling class establishes control of this church, and uses it to prevent the beliefs from undermining the power of the ruling class. At least quite generally.

    I agree with the several replies, also generally.


    But to the Mongols and so forth. off topic sorta..see>

    Mongols are mentioned, so it does relate, and of course the clubs might be seen in some degree as “churches”, eh?

    excerpt> “In April 2016 gunshots were fired during a huge brawl between Hells Angels and rival bikers from the Mongols gang at a hotel in Rotterdam.

    In 1996 a biker war broke out in Scandinavia between the Angels and their arch-rivals the Bandidos, which involved missiles being fired at rival cl…”

    Brother Sonny is quoted at the end of art, as saying> ” “It’s not just about the bikes — they want to belong. They’re looking for brotherhood, friendship and loyalty.” (sorta churchy, no?)

  3. Hellequiain Says:

    Same shit. Different Continent…………………..

  4. Raider Says:

    No domino effect idiot the government just wants the mongols

  5. david Says:

    @Penquin….There is a large difference between the “church” and a nation, which is also called the “state”.

    The national courts are operated by elected or appointed office-holders. The clergy appoint themselves to a church position, then tell everyone they were ordained by God.

    The church clergy, for the most part, did NOT stand against the German Nazi regime out of fear and/or bewilderment. The Make Germany Great Again slogan used by the German Nazis proves no one actually learns from the past.National Socialism argues the state as supreme.

  6. Boom Boom Says:

    @ penguin… You might be right… If it was several hundred years ago… but it’s not.

  7. Penguin Says:

    Clergy represent the Church, which is a political institution encapsulating the set of moral and ethic beliefs of the people.

    I think the comparison is fair.

    Controlling actual religious beliefs and the behaviors that stem from these is the function of Clergy, Church, and the State.

    Yeah, I know, we’re not supposed to know this, but, well, ask Martin Luther, or John Wycliffe…

    As to the trial and the club, well, looking at the Big Picture the patch is protected free speech in my own view, and immune to the entire affair the Feds are curating…

    Such is the freedom we enjoy…

  8. Boom Boom Says:

    The comparison of “clergy” being anywhere near the thieves that government is, actually made me laugh out loud…Comparing ones free will choice to worship and pay into something one makes the choice to worship and pay into, with money forcibly taken from you, is laughable at best, but ludicrous is an even better word Lets compare one who is willingly giving dues to an MC, with one willingly giving to a religion of their personal choice,(which no one HAS to do at all) and what do you get? The same thing. People making a choice as to what they want to do with their money…BIG difference between “Religion” trying to persuade one to drop the pay check in the basket, and the gov’t taking your of them you choose to freely give your money to…the other FORCES you to pay under threat of prison.

  9. Former Member Says:

    OG, well said. Being a former member myself, I also see here the point most are missing. Where is all the money collected that the Nation was told by an individual was continually being paid to lawyers to “Save the Patch”? Many brothers over the years who have asked this question have been thrown Out Bad, but now court proceedings prove their questions were well founded. Yanni will be accused of lying by the individual and once again the matter will be brushed aside by the yes men. The same men who would surely know that every morning the individual and Ciccone sit down over a cup of coffee until reprimanded by the judge.

  10. freebird Says:

    @ Paladin


    If the financials of any club is not considered club business, I don’t know what would be…..

    Unless he was compelled by the court to disclose that information it is safe to say it was a FUBAR moment

  11. Rebel Says:

    Dear Anonymous,

    Stubbs told the court that the Mongols have spent about $960,000 on legal fees related to the (saving the) patch case. I believe the club has paid George Steele and Bob Bernstein each more than $100,000. According to Yanny, the club has paid him $420,000 for pretrial expenses related to the patch issue. I am fairly certain Yanny did not just put that in his pocket. He has had multiple associate attorneys and other expenses. I have never seen an accounting of where that $420,000 went but Yanny says he was paid that amount.

    Before somebody raises the issue of my participation, I consulted on the case for about three years and testified for two days completely pro bono. I never asked for and never was paid a dime.

    Yanny now claims that the Mongols owe him about $511,000 for handling the trial. I haven’t seen an accounting of that or heard an accounting of that described. It is not unusual in important cases like this for lead attorneys to bill $400 an hour. Yanny had two junior associate attorneys at the table with him and a paralegal. I presume they all got paid. I don’t know whether an intellectual law expert witness got paid. There were a lot of hours in the case off the record working on procedural matters like jury instructions. I don’t know what a fair hourly billing might have been.

    The Mongols claim they had a flat fee arrangement with Yanny that would have amounted to $100,000 for the entire trial, which has now concluded. The issue of Yanny’s fee will probably go to binding arbitration.

    If Yanny prevails and the fine imposed by Judge Carter holds up on appeal the entire save the patch effort will have cost the Mongols $1,971,000 plus whatever interest may apply. My guess is that interest fees to both Yanny and the Feds could amount to another $100,000. That would amount a total of $2,071,000.

    Finally there is whatever the appeal will cost. This is a landmark issue and I would be surprised if an appeal that goes to the Supreme Court will cost less than $100,000.

    So, to summarize, the Mongols already have something like $960,000 into the case; best case they probably will owe Yanny another $100,000, they will probably end up paying — maybe like — $40,000 of the fine and another $100,000 to an appeals lawyer. Best case, I am guessing, they get out of the case paying $1.1 million. Worst case, this thing could cost double that.

    To the best of my knowledge, that is where the money went.


  12. Anonymous Says:

    The Save the Patch movement that started back ten years ago and has been ongoing was started because the Mongols claimed it was going to cost a million dollars in legal fees to fight keep their patch. Many C.O.C’s, clubs, individual patch-holders and citizens have made substantial do actions at numerous Save the Patch fundraisers and via the sales of STP shirts.

    If the Mongols believed Yanny was going to only need $100K in legal fees for the trademark fight, why did they need the help of the motorcycle club community across the nation with these fundraisers, and since Yanny didn’t get paid and Stubbs unqualified ass interfered in the trial for free, where the hell did all the money those fundraisers generated for the Mongols trademark fight go and how much money did the Mongols actually contribute to this as a club, or did they simply rely on the generosity of the club community to fight this battle for them.

  13. Anonymous Says:

    The Save the Patch movement that started back then years ago was started because the Mongols claimed it was going to cost a million dollars in legal fees to fight keep their patch. Many C.O.C’s, clubs, individuals individual patch-holders and citizens have made substantial do actions at numerous Save the Patch fundraisers and via the sales of STP shirts. If the Mongols believed Yanny was going to only need $100K in legal fees for the trademark fight, why did they need the help of the motorcycle club community across the nation with these fundraisers, and since Yanny didn’t get paid and Stubbs unqualified ass interfered in the trial for free, where the hell did all the money those fundraisers generated for the Mongols trademark fight go and how much money did the Mongols actually contribute to this as a club, or did they simply rely on the generosity of the club community to fight this battle for them.

  14. Gandalf Says:

    @Paladin; I got an “explanation” for you… Stubbs does a good thing for an MC and you don’t like that… So you out him for “freely disclosing the Club’s financials in open court?” In the hopes someone gets upset about it. Muddying the waters. Your game is weak yet subtle.

  15. Paladin Says:

    @ Parsifal;

    RELIGION: It’s given people hope in a world torn apart by religion. – Jon Stewart

    Long May You Ride,


  16. New England Rider Says:

    Sorry everyone, Paladin in his wisdom came down from the Temple Mount and rendered his opinion. Unless you agree you best just keep it to yourself and piss off. Isn’t this blog fun?

    Death is certain, life is not
    New England Rider

  17. Parsifal Says:

    @David. You forgot to throw in the Clergy. Some of the biggest criminals on the face of the Earth. They are real good at kneeling at the Altar of the All Mighty Dollar. They produce nothing, but are real good at skinning their congregations of their money. They are also the little birds that sits on politicians shoulder and whispers in their ears. Time too put all these people on notice from top to bottom.

  18. anon Says:

    Reading parts of that actually made me cringe.


  19. I.J Says:

    So the Mongols have been given 5 years to pay off the fine before they will once again be fighting to keep their patch…….

  20. RLG Says:

    Lol, unsecured fines/loans. The feds got punked. Doesn’t matter, it will be on appeal for another 12 years and end with no change in marks ownership…

  21. Gordo Says:

    See, even there own attorney admits they can pay,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Stephen Welk said

    Thx Stubbs???

  22. david Says:

    Money,or business, may be the only thing which explains the entire fiasco.

    Government employee Carter, explained during proceedings the “government” , “has unlimited resources”. What he failed to mention, at that time, is the fact the ONLY resources the government has ever had, or will EVER have, it got FROM the people, or fucking simply printed or cyber-created into existence.

    Fact #2: Courts were historically created from the start as business courts, long before nations adopted them as part of their rip-off of various populations. When traders and merchants needed to settle a BUSINESS dispute, they agreed to abide by the decisions of the business courts.

    Fact #3: Attorneys are first businessmen, everything else is fluff. Defense attorneys, persecuting attorneys, corporate attorneys, all of ’em.

    Fact #4: Government employees, judges, persecuting attorneys, all pigs and every other bureaucratic member, MAKE A “LIVING” off of scamming a population of people who are actually WORKING providing needed goods and services, and actually PRODUCING SOMETHING.And then they have the balls to tell everyone their “positions” are useful and non-predatory. Many could not hit their own ass with a wide board. ha!

    Fact #5: The sooner the people who are being scammed realize the reality of the fucked-UP situation, quit fighting between themselves, and maybe just not SHOW UP for the bullshit business court proceedings, the better off they’ll be.

  23. Paladin Says:

    In Rebel’s article ‘Mongol Nation Case Ad Nauseam’ it would seem that Yanny was trying to make the case through examples given in his “Response to Probation Pre-sentencing Report and Government’s Amended Request for Forfeiture of Collective Membership Marks” that because all of the government’s alleged crimes committed by Mongol Nation occurred when Mongol Nation was under the control of Doc Cavazos (2006-2008), and once Doc Cavazos was no longer in control of Mongol Nation, Mongol Nation was innocent of any substantive violations to the RICO act or conspiracy beyond the 2006 and 2008 time period, and because this a civil case, the government should pay his legal fees. Alright; I get this part.

    When we now fast forward to Rebel’s latest article ‘Mongols Fined $500,000’ we find on the one hand Yanny still looking to get paid while on the other hand we find Stubbs throwing the Club financially under the bus. Why in the world would Stubbs do this, and why is Stubbs freely disclosing the Club’s financials in open court? Then, after causing this train wreck, Stubbs shrugs his shoulders and says, “This isn’t what I do. I’m a club counsel.”?

    All these many years I’ve been lead to believe that an attorney’s duty is to represent and protect their client, not to throw their client under the bus. To anyone out there willing to explain any of this to me, I’m all ears.


  24. OG 1 Says:

    I will always love my brothers, and it’s been many years since I have seen their faces but this really hurts. Seeing the news, and reading these articles, makes me think of everything we been through back in the day. It’s not hard to see what’s going on, it doesn’t take rocket science, or a mathematician. Open your eyes brothers, it’s not about the individual, or being a Yes Man it’s about the Mongols. The numbers are there, wake up. If you could sleep well at night with what’s going on, so be it. The numbers are there in black and white, how much longer is it going to take to stand up. Do not listen with with your ears, but open your eyes and see the proof. EVERYTHING COMES FULL CIRCLE!

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