Mongol Nation Case Goes To Ninth Circuit

Mon, Mar 31, 2014

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Mongol Nation Case Goes To Ninth Circuit

The Mongols Nation case is on its way to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. In the indictment on which the case rests, the government argues that the entire Mongols Motorcycle Club is a racketeering enterprise. The point of the accusation is to create a pretext that will allow the Department of Justice to seize the Mongols name and patch.

Club lawyer Joe Yanny filed a Writ of Mandamus with the appeals court last Friday. A Writ of Mandamus is a request for intervention by a superior court in the business of a lower court in the interests of justice. The Mongols are asking that Judge Otis D. Wright, who appears to be the most incompetent judge in the federal Central District of California, be recused from judging the Mongols.

It is the second time the motorcycle club has tried to get Wright booted off the case. In February the question of Wright’s impartiality was referred to yet another piece of work, Judge Manuel L. Real. Real, who is famous for his reprehensible courtroom manner and his unique ethical standards ruled “A reasonable person with knowledge of all the facts would not conclude that Judge Wright’s impartiality might reasonably be questioned.” It was an indefensibly stupid decision and Yanny wants the Ninth Circuit to reverse it.

The 38 page writ and more than one hundred pages of attached exhibits also suggests that the office of the United States Attorney for Los Angeles steered this case to these two clown judges in order to frustrate justice.

Yanny characterizes the Mongol Nation case as a “wasteful and repetitive duplication of legal proceedings (which) will irreparably erode the public’s confidence in the judicial system, will involve unnecessary expenditure of a criminal defendant’s resources, and will be wasteful of assets of U.S. taxpayers.”

The Infinite Prosecution

Two other district judges, Florence-Marie Cooper and David O. Carter have already ruled that the Department of Justice cannot seize the Mongols name and insignia. The current case was actually suggested to the prosecuting attorneys by Judge Wright as a way to punish the Mongols. Yanny writes, “the government’s entire theory of the instant case was Judge Wright’s brainchild.”

What the government proposes to do in U.S. v. Mongol Nation is expel all current members of the club because about 80 members were coerced into pleading guilty to racketeering during a case called U.S. v. Cavazos et al. As part of his plea deal, former club president Ruben “Doc” Cavazos both claimed ownership of the Mongols name and insignia and agreed to forfeit those to the government. Legally, Cavazos never owned the Mongols trademarks. By lying to the late Judge Cooper, prosecutors obtained an order from her that prevented the transfer or sale of those marks. Cooper later explained that the intent of her order was simply to freeze the assets of a racketeering defendant. But prosecutors interpreted Cooper’s order to authorize the seizure of Mongols items like bandannas, calendars and tee shirts from innocent people.

It may say something about even the best federal judges that Cooper remained ignorant of the government’s blatantly illegal actions for nine months. And when she realized how her order had been misconstrued she was furious.


Cooper also presided over a related civil case filed by a San Diego Mongol named Ramon Rivera. Rivera, who was not indicted, objected to being punished because some of his club brothers had been. Rivera’s suit complained: “Plaintiff has often worn a jacket or shirt displaying the collective membership mark, both at Club activities and elsewhere. To Rivera, his display of the mark affirms his membership in the Club, and symbolizes unity and brotherhood with his friends and fellow Club members. Plaintiff has personal knowledge that if law enforcement officers saw him wearing items displaying the Mongols mark, the officers would confiscate those items. Due to the Government’s threat of seizing items displaying the mark, and its actual seizure of such items, Plaintiff is chilled and deterred from publicly wearing or displaying any item bearing the mark and is currently refraining from doing so.”

When she reviewed the Rivera suit, Cooper learned for the first time that the Mongols’ logo was a special kind of trademark called a “collective membership mark.” She wrote, “The Mongol Nation and Mongols Nation, Inc, by virtue of having used the collective membership mark since 1969, having registered the mark in 2005, and having continued to use of the mark to identify members of the club, have acquired and maintained exclusive ownership in the collective membership mark at issue…even if the Court were to assume that the collective membership mark is subject to forfeiture, the Court finds no statutory authority to seize property bearing the mark from third parties…. only defendants’ interests in the RICO enterprise and the proceeds from their racketeering activity are subject to forfeiture.”

What Cooper Ruled

In July 2009, Cooper wrote: “At the June 22 hearing the Government revealed for the first time that the mark it sought to forfeit was a collective membership mark. Previously, in its Ex Parte Application for Post-Indictment Restraining Order, the Government (in this case ATF Case Agent John Ciccone) referred to the mark simply as a trademark, which was ‘purportedly for use in commerce in connection with promoting the interests of persons interested in the recreation of riding motorcycles.’ In contrast to commercial trademarks, which are used in commerce and generally not entitled to full First Amendment protections, collective membership marks are used by members of an organization to ‘indicate membership in a union, an association, or other organization.’ The use and display of collective membership marks therefore directly implicate the First Amendment’s right to freedom of association. The Supreme Court has recognized that ‘implicit in the right to engage in activities protected by the First Amendment’ is ‘a corresponding right to associate with others in pursuit of a wide variety of political, social, economic, educational, religious, and cultural ends.’ This right is crucial in preventing the majority from imposing its views on groups that would rather express other, perhaps unpopular, ideas.’ Furthermore, clothing identifying one’s association with an organization is generally considered expressive conduct entitled to First Amendment protection…. If speech is noncommercial in nature, it is entitled to full First Amendment protection, which prohibits the prior restraint and seizure of speech-related materials without a judicial determination that the speech is harmful, unprotected, or otherwise illegal.

“Prohibiting speech of this nature constitutes an attack on a particular viewpoint. In Sammartano (v. First Judicial District Court, in and for the County of Carson City) the Carson City courthouse enacted a rule to prohibit admission of those with ‘clothing, attire or colors which have symbols, markings or words indicating an affiliation with street gangs, biker or similar organizations,’ because ‘such clothing or attire can be extremely disruptive and intimidating, especially when members of different groups are in the building at the same time.’ The Ninth Circuit reasoned that the rule singles out bikers and similar organizations for the message their clothing is presumed to convey, and held that the rule impermissibly discriminates against a particular point of view – the view of biker clubs as opposed to garden clubs and gun clubs. In this case, the Government targets an even narrower group of individuals, a single motorcycle club. In addition, the Government has been seizing property, which imposes a greater restriction on individual rights than the denial of access to a public facility. Accordingly, the seizure of property bearing a Mongols membership mark should be considered viewpoint-discriminatory. The Government’s ability to seize property bearing the trademark acts as a prior restraint and cannot stand without a judicial determination that the speech is harmful, unprotected, or otherwise illegal. No such determination was ever sought by the Government, and no such determination was ever made by the Court.”

Welk And Brunwin

After Judge Cooper died and the resultant celebration at the ATF’s Los Angeles headquarters finally died down, the Cavazos case was split between Judges Wright and Carter. Carter inherited the Rivera case. He ruled in Rivera that the government’s stance on the Mongols marks was “contrary to established First Amendment and trademark law” and not authorized by statute.

But prosecutors Steven Welk and Christopher Brunwin simply looked for another judge, which was how Wright became involved in the fight over the Mongols name and logo. The Mongols Motorcycle Club, which was never indicted in the Cavazos case, was forced to litigate the same forfeiture issues in an ancillary proceeding before Judge Wright. Wright ruled in the club’s favor but was openly disappointed that he had to follow the law. “Stated as succinctly as possible,” he wrote, “the court regrettably must conclude that it must grant the petition to Vacate or Amend the Preliminary Order of Forfeiture….”

Thirteen months ago, Welk and Brunwin indicted the entire Mongols Motorcycle Club for the same charges filed in the Cavazos case with the goal of pissing on the Constitution and seizing the Mongols’ collective marks. The government also filed a Notice To Court of Related Criminal Case which listed Wright as the sole judge in Cavazos and so the Mongols Nation case was assigned to him. The Notice was a cynical example of the games prosecutors play.

Wright Leads The Lynching

None of this litigation is cheap. The government has unlimited funds but the Mongols must hunt for the money to defend themselves. Mongols Nation epitomizes prosecution as a form on unconstitutional punishment.

The Mongols tried to stop this corruption of justice. The club filed a civil suit to dismiss the current racketeering indictment against the club but Wright dismissed that civil suit last October. In that motion hearing, Wright described Mongols club rules prohibiting illegal conduct among members as “laughable.”

“Those bylaws are a joke, and you know it,” Wright told the Mongols lawyer. “I am surprised you even mentioned it. This is a criminal enterprise as evidenced by the admissions of same by no fewer than 40 people who appeared before me. I can’t speak to the other 40 who appeared before Judge Carter. This is a dangerous enterprise.”

Wright went on to scold the attorney, “…you are saying that it is no different than them having perhaps having been Lutheran and they are of doing all these criminal things and it is just coincidental that some of them were Lutheran; right? It is not the same thing, is it? They are operating under the banner of the Mongols. It is that name, that reputation, that intimidation factor which enables them to do what they do, isn’t it?”

The writ Yanny filed last week argues that “If Judge Wright is not disqualified, petitioner will suffer irreparable damage that cannot be corrected on appeal.”

If the Ninth Circuit doesn’t remove Wright from this case it will send a clear message that there is no longer any justice in America.




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57 Comments For This Post

  1. Shyster Says:

    And if the Ninth Circuit doesn’t disqualify Wright then we are all fucked!


  2. jj solari Says:

    I think it’s a point of common knowledge that all judges are dredged up from the dumbest first graders on their first day of school. It is on that day that the Judge Children, the children who continually forget how to shit and piss and have to be constantly and patiently reminded, and who eat dirt and speak in grunts, are extracted from the rest of their classmates and taken to cells and cages in which their already empty heads are beaten 24 hours a day until they are adults and then they are appointed by an almost-as-stupid bureaucrat or elected by “the people,” most of whom are are on the rolls of the deceased. these extremely retarded men and women are then dressed in sith robes and given their Wack-a-Mole hammers with which to amuse themselves with loud sounds to keep them from drifting off too far into fantasies of wearing strap-ons in the forest and they sit and listen to people talk in their courtroom and then they make decisions based on whether or not it will affect their careers favorably or unfavorably. or sometimes on the law: something equally as arbitrary and meaningless, and sometimes not on the law depending on….well, nothing, actually. And that’s what judges are! Is this a great Country or what!

  3. Paladin Says:

    The sane are always disadvantaged, when fighting a system gone mad.


  4. Road Whore Says:

    @ Paladin: So true!

    @ Mongols: Stand tall!

    @ all patch holders everywhere: Unite!

    Ride Free

  5. Goldsboro Williams Says:


    Excellent article. And thanks for including the explanation of “Writ of Mandamus.” You saved me some Google time.


  6. AVAGOVFFV Says:

    This is a serious case and situation for everyone in the Country we either unite or fall. Once the shit bag ATF and the US Attorney secure a win there is no group or organization that will be protected from becoming a target of over zealous unknown and faceless suppressors of freedom.

    Everyone regardless on your opinion on motorcycle Clubs needs to understand whats at stake for even the average citizen. The sound of the boots are at our doors. Go out and support the Save The Patch there are several ways to do that buy a shirt, go to the fund raisers and get in touch with your local COC membership or contact one of the Clubs mentioned in this article. This fight will be monetarily expensive give what you can no matter how small even your time will help.

    Never have the expectation of Freedom it has always been fought for.

    Viva Los Vagos

  7. Slick Says:

    If the Mongols lose this case, then it will be open season on every club. The government always needs one case to set a precedent and then apply it to anyone else that they can apply it to. What does it really gain? Nothing. Not going to stop MCs from being MCs. Only benefit is more governmental power to restrict what they want is the net effect and that goes so against out constitution.

    Respects to all. Save the patch is taking on a much larger meaning.

  8. BMW Says:

    I am sure that the Government (meaning the taxpayer-funded US Attorney and his taxpayer-funded alphabet friends) will appeal this case to the US Supreme Court before they are done. After all, it is you and I who are paying the freight! Why should they care?

    The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals makes some very interesting decisions. Unfortunately, some of their best get overturned by the USSC, along with the worst. In this case, Judge Wright violated the Federal Judicial Code of Conduct, which are a set of special legal rules for judges. These special rules hold judges to a higher level of public and private behaviour, but are rarely enforced to the full extent. I would expect the Ninth Circuit to remove him from the case.

    The Code of Conduct reads, in part:
    “(6) A judge should not make public comment on the merits of a matter pending or impending in any court. A judge should require similar restraint by court personnel subject to the judge’s direction and control. The prohibition on public comment on the merits does not extend to public statements made in the course of the judge’s official duties, to explanations of court procedures, or to scholarly presentations made for purposes of legal education.” Cannon Section 3 a) (6) downloaded 4/1/14 from

  9. OC VAGO 1%er Says:


  10. ZEN Says:

    The question is, would we be here today if certain people didn’t make, sell, or buy drugs and commit murder? Those are the ones bringing down heat on all clubs, especially their own and as an extension of that, all riders. Enough is enough. Yes, the Feds, cops and courts don’t play fair but there is less of a chance for a conviction if illegal drugs and murder, and other blatant crime isn’t part of the equation.

    A CI, alphabet soup agency or anyone for that matter can’t easily entrap anyone who refuses to touch, talk about or even think about illegal drugs or premeditated murder, etc. Tell me I’m wrong. We will go the way of Australia if people don’t wake up. The crimes committed by a few are going to take us all down if we don’t stop them.

  11. Rebel Says:

    Dear Zen,

    You are wrong. I have seen surveillance video of men being “easily entrapped.” The feds run credit reports, find out who really needs some money, then gets that guy in a room under false pretences, throws money at him to do something legal and ethical, then spills the keys of coacaine or crank or heroin out onto a bed. Just like that, you are looking at life. Just like that. Just for being there. I have seen feds literally put a gun in a guy’s hand.

    I don’t know who you are, but nobody EVER gets convicted. The way the federal justice system works is by means of “the plea bargaining process.” Nobody gets convicted. Everybody makes a deal.

    And finally, drugs should be legal. Heroin should be legal. Coke, crank, weed, X, prescription pills, pschedelics should all be legal. Drugs are a public health problem. Treating drugs as a criminal problem is probably the crucial mistake that will lead to the downfall of the USA.

    Thanks for commenting,

  12. Mike 184 Says:

    Cheers to that Reb. I hate to disagree with you ZEN,

  13. Mike 184 Says:

    Well, actually I dont… That is a crock of shit and if you are involved in the MC world at all then you know it’s BS. I am not saying that stuff never happened, but it happens in day to day life much more frequently, and the charges are less, the sentences are less, and the infringment on the regular joe citizen are less…. I think… With all the videos coming out these days I think everyone gets treated shitty. Don’t be a door mat and don’t drink the kool-aid….

  14. Tomo Says:

    @ Rebel – when you talk about the plea dealing, I had heard about it over the years, but never understood what all the fuss was about. After spending that last few months reading your site, I realise how what seems like a good deal is actually a mockery of the justice system. I’ve recently been wondering what’s the actual point of having a Judge preside over anything when it sounds like the lawyers just form a huddle outside and rustle up an agreement between themselves.
    As to drugs being legalised – I’m sure I read/heard an article somewhere that if America legalised drugs, it would go bankrupt (or the like) because it’s the ‘war on drugs’ that makes the economy turn over (amongst other stuff – I never passed maths, so economy stuff is well over my head). It made sense at the time.

  15. CN Says:

    @zen: Maybe you meant well, but you’re obviously very very wrong. Let me help you to be very very right. Buy a copy of Out Bad then read and re-read it. Or, if you’re broke but have access to a computer, research the archives of this blog. Now, that’s the nicest way I know to put this. Unfortunately when I come across opinions like yours, “nice” is about the last thing that I become. Zen, the truth is that I’ve known too many good men, women, kids, you name it, who’ve suffered big time due to the ATF and those like them. The media has created a G rated fictional propaganda machine that makes people like you come up with simplistic and foolish conclusions such as yours. The ugly truth runs much deeper and is gaining momentum to the point where Bikers who refuse to conform and be controlled are being either put in prisons or being killed by Governments who in many cases they fought for in the military. To be sure there are real criminals out there, plenty of them in fact, who law enforcment could be arresting without deception or falsehoods but the problem seems to be that the real criminals are harder to find. Think about it, Motorcycle Clubs proudly fly their colors regardless of their acceptance by society and without fear of law enforcment. The only other group who have their group’s name boldly on their clothing are law enforcment. Given the raw numbers of crimes committed by members of law enforcment, this would make them the most criminal of all organizations. If anything, the general public should be holding their feet to the fire but they don’t because they are afraid of them. Law enforcement isn’t respected as much as they are feared. When you have a patrol car following you, do you feel protected or paranoid? If you ride up to your favorite restaurant and there’s 6 or 8 patrol cars parked in front are you as likely to eat there or pass it by and go back later? When you ride to a Motorcycle Event and there’s unmarked black SUV’s with blackened out tinted windows do you feel safer or less likely to do as you please, talk to whoever you want to, wear whatever support shirt you buy, buy that 2nd or 3rd beer, etc? I’m running on the assumption that you arent a Cop making your comment to try to stir the pot and see who bites then tracking them down for disposal at a later date. I’m giving you something law enforcment doesn’t give Bikers namely the benefit of the doubt. To make such a comment as yours in this venue you must either be new to this website or a Cop. We get a lot Cops commenting here (in case you really are new to this website). So, if you’re new arond here, “Welcome”! Read some of the years of articles and comments here then do what you’d do as a newbee in any situation, two ears and one mouth for a reason, listen and learn. And, if you’re a Cop trying to build some kind of case off the comments here, may you get what you give. In either case know this, it’s law enforcment who is the real gang these days and some day in the future a point of critical mass will be reached and a responce will happen. Freedom loving people either rise up or knuckel under. A proportional responce to a threat is coming and the hour is getting late.

  16. brenton Says:

    All clubs, regardless of getting along with the mongols or not, need to support the mongols in this unconstitutional bullshit of a power grab by the government. I have family in the Mongol Nation and I hope they win.

  17. stroker Says:

    @zen: CN gave you some very good info here. I cannot elaborate on what he said. I CAN reinforce it. I can echo his words, so you, and people like you may come here and look, and see that he’s not alone in his thinking. Law “enforcement” is offering cool-aid, and you and much of the public (read “sheeple”) are drinking it. Bikers are loud, and brash, and noisy, and can be violent. I submit, however, that there is just as much, if not more violence in mainstream society that doesn’t garner the attention that we bikers get. As CN says, we do not hide from society, we exist within it, and are not ashamed, or shy about showing our affiliation. To the law “enforcers” this is tantamount to slapping them in the face. Just who do we think we are, to display ourselves in such a manner?! We shouldn’t be allowed to exist within the façade of respectable society. We should (in LE’s world) be made to comply, to take our colors off, to NOT be free, in short, to not show ourselves in “polite” society. They NEED us to be the “boogeyman.” They need us to be unpopular with mainstream society. Their over-riding agenda with the “biker menace” is to put the maximum amount of negative spin on us as they can. They need the public to be afraid of us. They need the public to accept their protection from us.
    They also need you (the public) to not look behind the curtain at their own activities. As stated here in many places, the biggest gang in the world is not a biker gang, it’s those who profess to be on your side……your friendly LE/ATF/DEA etc.

  18. Meh Says:

    “If the Ninth Circuit doesn’t remove Wright from this case it will send a clear message that there is no longer any justice in America.”

    Here’s another clear message. If you are rich, connected and “not a biker” you can confess to raping your own three-year-old daughter and walk.

    “Delaware Superior Court Judge Jan Jurden concluded that Robert Richards IV “will not fare well” in prison. Jurden originally sentenced Richards to eight years in prison, then suspended that punishment in favor of Level II probation and ordered the heir — who is supported by a family trust — to pay $4,395 to the Delaware Violent Crimes Compensation Board.”

    Any bets on how merciful that judge would be to a PH under the same circumstances?

  19. SOUTHPAW 1%ER..SJV Says:

    @Zen..your an idiot..

  20. RVN69 Says:

    @meh, We have the best just us system that money can buy!

    “I came into this world kicking, screaming and covered in someone else’s blood, I am prepared to leave it the same way.”

  21. Mike 184 Says:

    Yeah, so what do you call it when a member of a support club if forced to retire as a public servant (No he was not a cop, he was one of the ones who actually save people), early, because gang task force saw him at a funeral for a 1% club member who was shot???

    Yeah, this guy has probably saved hundreds if not thousands of lives and ends up cheated out of a huge portion of his retirement because they wanted him out of there. “To close to and had access to sensitive information”….. I think what he lost by not staying 5 more years was like 175,000…..

    Dirty pool. And funny that there are all these bad one percenters and this was all that they could mess with in the area. Sad man, and there was no arrest, no headline…. So what good came of it? He is now not out there saving lives…. WTF man.

    Oh and too boot he is one hell of a guy…. has grand kids, ect….

  22. Ray Says:

    Zen you need to wake up! I am no longer in the biker world for my own reasons . However bikers are being unfairly targeted. I have never been arrested nor convicted of any crime yet I am still to this day harassed by law enforcement. My own child who inspires to be in law enforcement was blacked balled do to my history in a club. Law enforcement of all types are the biggest gangs out there. As for justice there hasn’t been justice in this country for years itis for the rich and we’ll connected. Example R. Rex Paris here is a man who on national news told the world that all bikers are criminals and should be locked away in prison. Then last year the Mayor of Lancaster ca. Wife was stopped for attempting to carry a firearm onto a plane. She had an expired permit. She was let off with a warning. Now if that had been me I would be in a federal prison as we speak. Being a biker does not make you a bad person. The actions of a few doesn’t mean the entire biker world is corrupt. If the justice system is going along those lines well then lock up all the cops. There are far more law enforcement officers that are convicted each year than bikers look it up. I no longer wear the patch and I no longer ride with a club. But I will support them in any way I can..Zen remember this is more than about a bunch of guys wearing a vest with a patch on it it is about our and I mean all of ours constitutionally given rights that have been violated by the so called government and Lil men like John Ciccone who has abused his power. Look at Ray Dobbins who infiltrated the hells angels and wrote a book just like Billy queen did..Both men stated they were screwed over by the government.Both men stated that their respectful clubs they screwed over treated them better than their own fellow law enforcement officers. Support the patch but more importantly get behind the 1st amendment. Fight for what 10 ‘ s of thousands of men and women have given their lives to deffend..

  23. Wingman Says:

    Instapundit Glenn Reynolds wrote about how the plea bargaining process is abused and has some suggestions for how to correct the situation.

  24. The Orange Says:


    My name is “GD” and even though I am not Mexican and it’s bold of me to take a stand and seek your attention, but I am confident that you will agree with me when I’m all said and done.

    Last night I went to the movies and I saw the new movie documentary about “Cesar Chavez”. Yes, just like most people in Southern California I’ve heard the name before, even been on the Street towards Downtown Los Angeles but I never really knew the story behind the man or anything about him, until now.

    Cesar Chavez was a Mexican American farm worker, labor leader and civil rights activist who co-founded the National Farm Workers Association back in the 1960’s. Cesar Chavez was a Field Worker until he became an organizer for a Latino civil rights group. Chavez urged Mexican Americans to register and vote and he traveled throughout California making speeches in support of farm workers rights.

    In 1965 when Filipino American farm workers initiated the Delano grape strike in 1965 to protest higher wages, Chavez eagerly supported them. Six months later, Chavez and the NFWA led a strike of California grape pickers on the historic farmworkers march from Delano to the California state capitol in Sacramento for similar goals. Also in 1972, he fasted in response to Arizona’s passage of legislation that prohibited boycotts and strikes by farm workers during the harvest seasons.

    So what is my reason for speaking on this, and where am I going with this?

    Well, as I was sitting there watching this movie, Cesar Chavez and his movement totally made me think of my close friend “Lil Dave” the President of the Mongols Motorcycle Club. I see Lil Dave putting himself & his family on front line as the leader of his motorcycle club to defend what he believes in, what his club believes in. I see Lil Dave being fearless in his approach in dealing with this matter in a non-violent way such as Ceaser Chavez did. I see the Filipino farm workers coming together with the Mexican farm workers as the Mongols coming together with other clubs to build a united front to legally and peacefully defend our constitutional rights as Americans. I see Lil Dave organizing peaceful Save The Patch fundraisers and giving speeches to help spread the word and help build support for their upcoming court trial that starts in September 2014. I see Lil Dave fighting for more than just the right of the Mongols MC, but for all Motorcycle Clubs in Southern California and through out the United States.

    What Lil Dave & the Mongols MC are up against has never hit the court system in history. The Mongols MC is the first motorcycle club, organization, corporation to ever be attacked by the United States Government with Trademark infringement with the Feds wanting to forever ban the Mongols MC from using their very own Trademark club logo that they been using since 1969. What’s being done to the Mongols MC is “unprecedented” meaning it’s never been done before! That means their court case will set “Case law” meaning The outcome of their case will establish law of future cases.

    So, what does all this really mean and what am I saying to you. Let me be point blank. MEXICANS YOU NEED TO COME TOGETHER AS A PEOPLE. You need to support the Mongols MC because this is not just a Motorcycle Club case, this is a Civil Rights case. I’m calling on all Mexicans because YOU have the VOTING power to make a difference. Here is a current updated fact on the racial/ethnic population groups in California for 2014.
    % of California State Population in 2014:
    LATINO- 39.0%
    WHITE- 38.8%
    BLACK- 5.8%
    ASIAN- 13.0%

    These numbers don’t lie and these numbers represent POWER when it comes to voting and POWER when it comes to people coming together! Did you know that over 14 Million Hispanics live in California, making it the nation’s largest Hispanic population! Thats POWER and thats Voting Power, but you have to get Registered for it to mean something in the voting world.

    So why am I sticking my nose in this, and why am I speaking on this if I’m not Mexican? is it because I’m part Filipino and I saw the Filipinos & the Mexicans come together Is it because I was born in 1972 when Cesar Chavez went on his hunger strike? Is it because I got love & respect for Lil Dave taking a stand for what he believes in? Well, like I told you at the end of the day this is all about our Civil Rights as American citizens of the Untied States of America. This is not about being a Mexican from the Mongols MC. What do I have in common with the Mongols MC that I should care about this? I ride a motorcycle, I am the President Founder of my Motorcycle Club, I love my club logo, I have my club name & logo tattooed all over my body and so do my club brothers, and I want to see my motorcycle club be here over the next 50 years.

    The time is now people and just as the Mexican people supported Cesar Chavez & the farm workers, I would hope you all support Lil Dave & the Mongols MC. Trust me, if you ever ate a “Grape” in Southern California, it was because of Cesar Chavez and his movement and with your support, after Lil Dave & the Mongols MC win this court case you will not have to worry about forfeiting the future use of your club logo. But please don’t sit and wait and watch, you gotta get involved. You gotta become a registered voter and you must vote when the time comes!!

    If you really read of this I thank you!! I hope you leave a comment, cause your comment shows some sign support.


  25. brenton Says:

    GD this isnt a race issue. I know a few mongols. Been to some functions. There was almost more white patch holders than brown. I think all Americans need to come together and stop this type of unconstitutional abuse of power.

  26. Jim666 Says:

    @ brenton.
    Exactly !

    Jim 666

  27. Guru Says:

    Funny thing is the Mongols is all white when u go out of L.A area. Its funny how people think the Mongols is a Mexican club only. There prob the most solid people I met.


    Exactly ! MLH&R

  29. Meh Says:

    Feds wanting to seize trademarked items begs the question of what different method of license might be creatively but legally applied to name and insignia such that it could not be practically confiscated under existing law.

    Current trademark law to protect an asset from infringment is also used to define what may be seized. An “owned thing” may be controlled using the legal system, but if it no longer uses the legal system to ensure sole legal ownership and instead uses it to ensure (technically!) free access that lever may be removed.

    Free Software advocates pioneered copyleft and other licensing designed to liberate intellectual property. Where else might these ideas be useful?

    Club insignia weren’t always copyrighted but tended to become so because the benefits of (conventional) intellectual property rights rewarded that choice. If copyright becomes a tool against clubs, might a variation of copyleft licensing defang the pork?

    It’s not fear of copyright infringement that keeps randoms from cloning club regalia and pretending they are members.

  30. Joe Says:

    Hey Rebel did you see this article today? I wanted to send it to you. Closing a club house in this manner is a new one.

  31. Rebel Says:

    Dear Joe,

    Thank you for this.


  32. Southpaw1%er Says:

    @Meh. I know you mean well but dont you get it,Our club has done everything it is suppose to do legally to protect our trademark,But the atf along with the government dont give a fuck about the law!..We just have to hope the judge the rules on this case does..People come on here giving us fresh qoutes that they googled about trademark ownership like if we havent done our homework..Its ridiculous when individuals come one here like if they discovered america or something and say hey why dont you do this then the governnent cant legally do nothing..WRONG!!..They can do whatever they want..Southpaw1%er..MFFM.

  33. Cops are criminals Says:

    @falpupui..You are a 100% wrong!..Jus as you there are club members still operating outside the law there are many law enforcement operating outside the law..Is there not over 20 officers that lost there job for beating,lieing falsifying documents in L.A. county jail..Wasnt it Orance county Police that beat to death a homeless man on video pretty much just for kicks,Havent over 20 to 30 officers been fired for laundering money and stealing from the charities of 9/11..Wasnt it the ATF that was saleing guns to drug cartels and claimed it was part of an investigation that lead to you guys losing track of the guns..Oh ya but I forgot when its law enforcent you say dont blame all of us for a few bad apples..But when its the Mongols or any groupthat stands up for what they believe in u say all should be responsible for a few members..I notice you left out in your slightly rhetorical hypocrytical propaganda filled statement that it might be just a lil unconstititional to steal th Mongols logo..If u were to put an undercover in a department of over 700 cops can you imagine how many murders on innocent homeless people,assaults,child molesting and sodomy on each other would be recorded!!!..What it boils down to is thes groups of motorcycle enthusiasts are way more law abiding then any group of cops..YOU CAN ONLY BEAT TO DEATH SO MANY INNOCENT PEOPLE ON CAMERA AND PEOPLE ARE GOING TO START QUESTIONING YOUR CREDIBILITY AS AN OFFICER!!

  34. Cops are criminals Says:

    @falpupui..You are a 100% wrong!..Jus as you that there are there are club members still operating outside the law there are many law enforcement operating outside the law..Is there not over 20 officers that lost there job for beating,lieing falsifying documents in L.A. county jail..Wasnt it Orance county Police that beat to death a homeless man on video pretty much just for kicks,Havent over 20 to 30 officers been fired for laundering money and stealing from the charities of 9/11..Wasnt it the ATF that was saleing guns to drug cartels and claimed it was part of an investigation that lead to you guys losing track of the guns..Oh ya but I forgot when its law enforcent you say dont blame all of us for a few bad apples..But when its the Mongols or any groupthat stands up for what they believe in u say all should be responsible for a few members..I notice you left out in your slightly rhetorical hypocrytical propaganda filled statement that it might be just a lil unconstititional to steal th Mongols logo..If u were to put an undercover in a department of over 700 cops can you imagine how many murders on innocent homeless people,assaults,child molesting and sodomy on each other would be recorded!!!..What it boils down to is thes groups of motorcycle enthusiasts are way more law abiding then any group of cops..YOU CAN ONLY BEAT TO DEATH SO MANY INNOCENT PEOPLE ON CAMERA AND PEOPLE ARE GOING TO START QUESTIONING YOUR CREDIBILITY AS AN OFFICER!!

  35. Ciccone has down syndrome Says:

    Pretty much the majority of crimes these 1percenter clubs have been convicted of has been a federal fabricated crimes that take usually over 2 yrs to conspire and make up..As long as Down syndrome mushroom head Ciccone and his fat bitch Cervantes are able to keep on putting a 150 million in there pocket to split among there counterparts then there going to keep up there lies..The only way to keep justifying that type of funds is to convince the sheep of the world that these 1percenters are the worse of the the worse.When you watch these interviews of Ren and Stimpy or should I say Ciccone and Cervantes you can see the jealousy in there eyes for these souls they will never know what it is like to look in the mirror and say there is a man.

  36. Ciccone is in love with 1%ers Says:

    Just like when law enforcement gets a new chief of police and tries to do some legitament changes there is still going to be some officers doing illegal acts,It shouldnt discredit his efforts..and as far as Largo Gonzalez..If u remember correctly your piece of shit officers try sale drugs at a funeral when Mr Gonzalez aka Largo wouldnt allow he pulled your informants patch and had them kicked out..You piece of shit cops were so pissed off cause your entrapment didnt work you had him picked up for racketeering and threatened him with life so he took 6yrs..and you bitchass pigs know he did nothing wrong!!..So if thats the best u got cause the club stuck by a member that did nothing wrong then FUCK YOU!!

  37. Rebel Says:

    Dear Ciccone etc.

    You are exactly right. It wasn’t an informant it was ATF undercover agent named John ” Hollywood” Carr who is a fucking piece of work.

  38. jj solari Says:

    dear zen: you have a one dimensional understanding of a three dimensional situation. this isnt about crime. this is about liberty. what is a crime today has 50,000 new acts declared crimes tomorrow. you should not even be saying ANYTHING. because you are having a discussion no one else is having. you are talking to yourself in other words. which is fine with me. but i feel a need out of sheer compassion – which need will disappear after i type the next period – to at least inform you of what you are doing.

  39. Amy Says:

    A RACE issue? HAHAHAHHAHAAAAAAA ~whispers~ not all Bandidos are Mexican either. Gasp!~ Snorts laughing.

  40. Tooj Says:

    No dis intended, but Amy made me laugh…after snorting. Could hear it in Kansas.

    “Mexicans have faster bikes? Oh yeah, now THAT is a race issue.”

  41. Pay attention dumbasses Says:

    You totally missed GDs point if u read his whole thread hes saying just the opposite that it is not a race issue that in the long run its going to affectvall of us, But hes also suggesting if the mexican people can get behind this issue as a whole and if they need to use the fact that the Mongols in the Southern Cali are mostly Mexican and there NP is also Mexican american as reason to come together as Americans and vote then so be it..If u would pay attention to the subject at hand instead of trying to impress some random female by saying how much u enjoyed her comment just because she snorted I hate to tell you but either your hard up or easily entertained and as far as dipdhit fapuicoochie whatever the fuck your name is since your so good with numbers you should easily realize these save the patch events is more about awareness then financial gain..Since your the number man whats a few hundred patch holders with a 10 dollar donation gonna do yes it will help but its more about awareness and and getting it out to the media and forcing the people to pay attention to whats going on and there rights are being taken away left and right and using 1percenters an an excuse..You know how many people are being killed in certain neighborhoods in L.A. in some cases it adds up to 1 a day in a five mile radius with racial gang killings..But u will be lucky if that makes the last page in the paper but with the Mongols there still crying about a lil fight from 2011,a killing in 08..come on how stupid can people be..There is obvious a hidden agenda here its about financial gain with minumum risk its about taking away your rights and furthering careers..FUCK THE ATF..FUCK COPS AND FUCK THE GOVERNMENT!..By the way Ciccone no matter how many 1percenters u put away you will always be a short jealous down syndrome mushroom head Napolean looking bitch.

  42. Tooj Says:

    You’re serious, right? Amy’s all growled up with a man of her own to worry over. I don’t need to impress her. I got the fucking point and am still concerned with race in terms of motorcycles, not people. Everyone has good reason to be concerned with this, so I won’t be smoking GD’s pole anytime soon over it. You?

  43. Fred Says:

    Fuck the patch….

  44. Rahlow Says:

    Tell us Fred,,,what do you know about “the patch”?

  45. Docb Says:

    Roll yer window back up & stay in yer own lane

  46. Road Rage Says:

    Fuck you Fred……

  47. news Says:

  48. Fuck the atf and fred Says:

    FUCK YOU FRED!!..By saying fuck the patch your saying fuck your rights as an american..your saying fuck the constitution,The Mongols have alot of retired and active vets these members gave risked there life so u have the right of freedom of speech and you repay them by using your freedom of speech to say fuck the patch..Your either a piece of shit dumbfuck or an atf agent..

  49. OC VAGO 1%er Says:

    That’s all you got? You are either an idiot or an idiot. In either case fuck both of you.

  50. OG Says:

    Right or wrong, I think those that plead guilty gave the feds power to go after this. However, this is a 1st amendment issue! The minute they ban these t-shirts I’ll go buy a support shirt and show my support for the 1st amendment. If they win this one, they will then go after other clubs and what else? This administration is going after our guns, speech and whatever else they can control. They forget that piece of paper called the US Constitution and Bill of Rights!

  51. Rebel Says:

    Dear OG,

    Guys make plea bargains because they are blackmailed into the deals. You can either insist on a trial with a jury of morons who a) are too stupid to get out of jury duty and b) think Sons of Anarchy and the The Devils Ride are real and risk life in prison or you can take the deal and get a much lesser sentence, in some cases time served. Very many guys charged in the 2008 Mongols case broke no laws and pled guilty to “RICO.” Often, the predicate “racketeering acts” were being a chapter officer, or legally owning a legal gun, or being in possession of a lot of bullets or in one case having appeared in a photograph in Doc Cavazos’ book.

    There is nothing Constitutional about the current practice of federal justice. It is a national shame and it should be exposed.


  52. Tooj Says:

    Dear Rebel, I could not agree more. The simple fact that “Judge” Wright would use those convictions garnered through such means to state:

    “This is a criminal enterprise as evidenced by the admissions of same by no fewer than 40 people who appeared before me. I can’t speak to the other 40 who appeared before Judge Carter. This is a dangerous enterprise.”

    shows just how self-deluded the system truly is. There is a synergy of government provided education, public numbing and this sort of abhorrent application of “law” that is coming to some sort of tipping point.

  53. Triple O.G Says:

    @Og your not much of an Og if you don’t understand how the system works.Of course it gave them some leverage that’s why they blackmailed the members to sign that paper that claims there a criminal enterprise,even though it’s all bullshit.I dont care who you are if you happened to get picked up in a Rico sweep and they tell u plead guilty to the fact that your a criminal enterprise and u can go home today or go to jury trial an risk getting 20yrs,guilty or not guilty your gonna sign that piece of paper so u can go home with your kids and not lose your job..They have no proof the Mongols are nothing more then a club if they did the wouldnt have to use these kind of tactics.In this case speaking from an outsiders point of view the atf has stooped so low that they think there above the law and they can just throw the constitution out the window even people that may not even care for 1%er clubs are stepping up and saying the government is going to far!Your average person is stepping up and saying this has nothing to do with protecting the people this falls in the catagory of the patriot act,the government tries to scare the shit out of everyone and then say here pass this law and eveything will be hunky dorey well not this time dickheads.Common sense tells us the Mongols will simply change there logo,simple.Everyone will still know who they are so if its not going to change nothing like that pocketsize atf agent Ciccone claims then it has to be personal.That is all it is the atf hates losing and even with all there dirty tactics the loss and will lose again.

  54. ghost Says:

    a little off subject but it still applies to this thread, I am currently in Greensboro, N.C. and I am watching the local news and what comes on but a story about a local hero named billy the fuck stain queen//st john. the breathing turd that infiltrated the mongols back in the day.. I had to laugh they called him the real life jack bauer from the show 24.. anyway the story told what a hero he is and stated several times that LOCAL HERO BILLY QUEEN LIVES IN THE TRIAD AREA OF NORTH CAROLINA, HOPEFULLY A MONGOL IN A SEMI RUNS HIM OVER!!!

  55. Justin Says:

    I can’t stand this blatant display of social and political injustice. These “so called” judges have no right passing judgement on other people when they are so incompetent that in any other case, they would be brought up on charges.

    Just because we wear patches and ride motorcycles does not make us all criminals. The NYPD all wear uniforms and symbols of their “Solidarity”, and there have been THOUSANDS of cases of criminal behavior for their organization. Brutality, Coercion, False Arrest, Murder, Theft, Drug Abuse, Distributing Drugs, etc, under these ridiculous laws, the NYPD should be brought up on a RICO (Racketeering) charge and the whole lot of them should be arrested, have their uniforms seized and be demanded to disband.

    It’s this type of blanked stupidity that is causing the people of our great nation to become mindless sheeple, doing what they are told and hunkering in fear of the masters whip. The truth is that WE THE PEOPLE have the power, authority and right to make the government accountable for these reprehensible actions.

    I am a motorcycle enthusiast, Harley Davidson rider, civil rights activist and documentary/film maker. This combination makes the corrupt officials hate the things I do and the things I say. Right now, I’m trying to find funding for a documentary about the Motorcycle Club life and the real impact that it has on society. I know that the MC I belong to does no criminal activity, but we are harassed whenever we ride in numbers.

    Remember the old saying “United We Stand”.

  56. Stalemate Says:

    Just a thought. Maybe we should stop fucking with each other, (different patches and MC’s), and stand united against this government take over. I mean, I learned a long time ago that if you keep the masses (little folk), at each others throats, then folks on top can do anything they please. A common enemy for a common cause. Think about the power of millions of bikers from all over this country coming together to stand against this illegal act.

  57. Dave Says:

    Some people see this battle as good (the govt) vs evil (a biker gang). If you hear them talking about it, it pisses you off because they have zero clue.

    Ok.. I know the Mongols aren’t pristine fellas who do saintly acts every day for their dear old mums… But this whole thing, to me, is just another try by the govt to see where it can reach and what it can do with that reach.

    Every time I turn around, the government is trying to push it’s LEGAL limits and do something else that it has no power to do. If the government wants to go after the Mongols from criminal activity, go for it. Take the shot. But this type of thing is just the beginning of the government telling ANY group “You’re closed”. Another step in total control of everything we are allowed to do, think, or say. And it’s no longer just liberals or mainly liberals, there’s conservatives jumping onto the wagon and raising hype about perceived threats to society. Just think about this; the government is already pressing the Boy Scouts over that organization’s founding principles. It’s the Boy Scouts… FFS… Their reaching in on hunters, bikers, farmers… Everything…

    While they do this, they forget how to take care of our vets, promise to take care of everyone else but our vets, and lead more sheep to the Kool-Aid with shiny cellphones and EBT cards!

    Which is why when you start telling people that the government is truly evil, they think you’re crazy. They don’t understand how slavery begins in the modern age.

    -Give them food
    -Give them money
    -Give them things
    -Give them healthcare

    Now they must do as told or we take it away.

    And the sheep can’t see it…

    If I could prospect a club, I would. I’m already an outlaw due to my belief in free will, free speech, and freedom. I might as well stand with those who think the same.

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