Mongols Lawyer Slams Judge

February 15, 2014

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Joseph A. Yanny, the Century City Attorney who now defends the Mongols Motorcycle Club in a criminal case that seeks to effectively outlaw the club and confiscate its insignia, filed a motion late Friday that seeks to disqualify Otis D. Wright II, the flagrantly partial district court judge who now presides over the matter.

The case, titled USA v. Mongol Nation, an Unincorporated Association is a do over of another racketeering case called US v. Cavazos et al. When that older case was unsealed on October 21, 2008 then United States Attorney Thomas P. O’Brien bragged:

“The racketeering indictment seeks the forfeiture of the trademarked ‘Mongols’ name, which is part of the ‘patch’ members wear on their motorcycle jackets.

“In addition to pursuing the criminal charges set forth in the indictment, for the first time ever, we are seeking to forfeit the intellectual property of a gang,” O’Brien said. “The name ‘Mongols,’ which is part of the gang’s ‘patch’ that members wear on their motorcycle jackets, was trademarked by the gang. The indictment alleges that this trademark is subject to forfeiture. We have filed papers seeking a court order that will prevent gang members from using or displaying the name ‘Mongols.’ If the court grants our request for this order, then if any law enforcement officer sees a Mongol wearing his patch, he will be authorized to stop that gang member and literally take the jacket right off his back.”

O’Brien resigned les than a year later in the middle of an ethical scandal. He is now a defense attorney specializing in accusations of white collar crime.

Judge Cooper

Pulling the Mongols patch was unequivocally the principal point of the 2008 indictment. The indictment culminated a three year-long domestic spying operation conducted by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives called “Operation Black Rain.” Numerous former Mongols pled guilty to Count One of the Cavazos indictment. That count alleged that the Club is a murdering, drug dealing criminal enterprise. Beyond a shadow of a doubt, the government coerced defendants in that case into pleading guilty to racketeering in order to build its case against the club as a whole. Among the confessed criminal conspirators was former club President Ruben “Doc” Cavazos who claimed ownership of the club’s trademarks and attempted to forfeit them to the government as part of his plea deal.

Cavazos was prosecuted by Assistant U.S. Attorney Christopher Brunwin who is also prosecuting Mongol Nation. The general idea was to outlaw the Mongols Motorcycle Club and then outlaw all other motorcycle clubs. A subsequent case against the Pagans Motorcycle Club titled US v. Barbeito et al. used the same argument to try to “literally take the jacket right off the” backs of Pagans whether they had been found guilty of a crime or not.

The Judge who presided over Cavazos was the late Florence Marie Cooper, an erudite and moderate jurist who was the only judge in the federal district without an undergraduate college degree. Cooper, as she would later explain to Brunwin, had been misled by prosecutors into thinking that the Mongols insignia was a tangible asset with significant monetary value. She issued a preliminary order of forfeiture of the Mongols collective membership marks in order to preserve that asset pending the outcome of the criminal case.

Cooper also presided over a related civil case awkwardly titled Ramon Rivera versus Ronnie A. Carter, Acting Director, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF); John A. Torres, Special Agent in Charge, ATF Los Angeles Field Division; and Eric H. Holder, United States Attorney General. Rivera was a Mongols member in San Diego who was never charged let alone convicted of any crime and who objected to having to forfeit his Mongols insignia. In that case Cooper enjoined “…the Government, its officers, agents, servants, employees, and attorneys, and anyone in active concert or participation with any of the foregoing persons, from seizing, or asking or directing any other person or entity to seize, from Plaintiff any property or item bearing or displaying all or part of the collective membership mark at issue in (the case) United States v. Cavazos.”

A week later Cooper denied “the Government’s Application for Entry of Preliminary Order of Forfeiture as to Registered Trademarks, Pursuant to Guilty Plea of Ruben Cavazos.” In the same ruling Cooper also denied “the Government’s Motion for an Order Striking Motion by Movant Mongols Nation Motorcycle Club, Inc. for Amendment of Post-Indictment Restraining Order.” Briefly stated, Cooper ruled that the Mongols patch was not a “trademark” but a “collective membership mark” and was a constitutionally protected form of free expression. The issue of whether the government can arbitrarily seize a Christian cross, a Star Of David, the Masonic Square and Compasses or the Mongols logo should have been definitively settled then and would have been except that Judge Cooper died in the middle of the case. ATF officials and prosecutors publically gloated over her death because it gave them another chance to effect the prohibition of what they saw as an antisocial organization by simply hurling accusations at the nonconformists.

After Cooper’s death Cavazos was split between two other Central District of California judges, David O. Carter and Wright. That is how the embarrassingly undistinguished Wright was interjected in the Mongols mess. For the last five years Wright, a former Deputy Sheriff has so favored prosecutors that it is easy to speculate that he was exactly the incompetent judge prosecutors wanted and that he was assigned to the Mongols case because arms were twisted. It is a side of federal justice the public never sees. In a stunningly candid statement in open court, Judge Carter remarked, “If the people knew what happens here they would burn the courthouse down.”

Disqualifying Judge Wright

In a pretrial hearing last October 21, Wright was so fatuous, condescending, ignorant and hostile to Bob Bernstein, the Mongols previous attorney, that Bernstein quit the case. The Mongols’ motion for disqualification cites Judge Wright’s remarks in that hearing and attaches a full transcript of them.

Judge Wright may voluntarily withdraw from the case. If Wright does not simply withdraw the motion will be considered by Judge George H. King who is the Chief Judge for United States District Court in the Central District of California.

In addition to Wright’s disqualification, the motion filed yesterday asks the court to “order the Clerk’s office to produce all records pertaining to this case’s assignment to Judge Wright.” Yanny has also requested “that the Court to whom this motion is assigned set a hearing so that the parties may present oral argument and inspect the requested documents.”

Brunwin intends to fight against Wright’s disqualification. Yanny also writes: “Prior to filing this motion for disqualification of Judge Wright, I conferred with Assistant U.S. Attorney, Christopher Brunwin, regarding the same via conference call and follow up emails. About one week later I called Mr. Brunwin again at which time Mr. Brunwin informed me that the Government was unwilling to stipulate to the motion.”

Yanny argues that Wright’s prejudices against the Mongols fossilized after he officiated over 40 of the coerced plea deals in the Cavazos case. The Mongols lawyer writes: “Mongols Nation Motorcycle Club, LLC respectfully submits that comments, which have been memorialized in the public record, unquestionably display Judge Wright’s bias against the sole defendant in this case, the Mongols Nation Motorcycle Club, which bias was formed before properly receiving one shred of evidence in this case, regarding this defendant, as a consequence of Judge Wright’s prior exposure to the charges, proceedings and the voluntary guilty pleas of forty separate criminal defendants in a previous matter over which he presided, entitled US v. Cavazos. Those plea agreements are currently under seal, and this Defendant was not afforded the niceties of Due Process in those prior proceedings.”

“Although this Defendant has never been before this Court in trial, Judge Wright’s comments suggest that he has already found the Movant guilty of the most critical of ultimate facts regarding culpability, by virtue of a presumed association with individuals who pled guilty in the Cavazos case. Additionally, Judge Wright has already pronounced sentence with respect to this Defendant’s property rights without properly receiving on shred of evidence in the penalty of a case involving this Defendant. ‘Regrettably,’ and with all due respect to Judge Wright, Movant submits that any reasonable Citizen would conclude that Movant cannot possibly obtain a fair trial in the instant case unless Judge Wright is recused from this case. Indeed, given the persistence of Judge Wright’s obvious bias against the Mongols that is now reflected in the public record, recusal is not only required by statute, but it is necessary to ensure public confidence in the Judicial System.”

“…on October 21, 2013, it became eminently clear that Judge Wright had already pre-judged the ultimate facts of the instant criminal case regarding a defendant that had yet to appear before him at trial, present any evidence or cross examine even one witness. He was willing to do this based solely on consent decrees entered against other separate and distinct defendants who had not fully and fairly litigated their matters, but had opted – for whatever expediency – to take pleas. The record establishes that Judge Wright appears to be willing to find this separate and distinct criminal defendant guilty of being ‘a criminal enterprise’ by a presumption of guilt by association – an impermissible leap of logic. Prior to hearing any evidence regarding the defendant in this case, which the Government describes as an ‘unincorporated association’ allegedly consisting of every ‘full-patched’ member of the Club, Judge Wright explained his view of the link between this collective/organizational defendant and the plea bargains of forty individual alleged former members of the Mongols Motorcycle Club. First, the Court stated that, because of what those alleged former members pled guilty to in Judge Wright’s courtroom, the Club’s internal rules prohibiting illegal conduct among members are ‘laughable.’”

A Taste Of Wright

At the October hearing, when shown a set of Mongols bylaws that forbid club members from criminal conduct, Wright groused from the bench: “Those bylaws are a joke, and you know it. I am surprised you even mentioned it. This is a criminal enterprise as evidenced by the admissions of same by no fewer than 40 people who appeared before me. I can’t speak to the other 40 who appeared before Judge Carter. This is a dangerous enterprise.”

When Bernstein tried to argue that the Mongols Motorcycle Club might not be a criminal racket, Wright hectored Bernstein like this: “…you are saying that it is no different than them having perhaps having been Lutheran and they are of doing all these criminal things and it is just coincidental that some of them were Lutheran; right? It is not the same thing, is it? They are operating under the banner of the Mongols. It is that name, that reputation, that intimidation factor which enables them to do what they do, isn’t it?”

BERNSTEIN: I can’t….

WRIGHT: Go like that.

BERNSTEIN: I can’t answer that, your Honor.

WRIGHT: I can. I have seen them. Alright. They have all been here. I have seen them. And that is why they are fighting so hard to hang on to those colors. Those colors mean something…. If the association is convicted, relinquishment or forfeiture of those marks will be part of the sentence…. If that organization is convicted, its interest in those marks is forfeitable to the government; right?

BERNSTEIN: I don’t agree. That is the rub.

WRIGHT: You lose.

Prosecutors have not yet responded to the motion.



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40 Responses to “Mongols Lawyer Slams Judge”

  1. OC VAGO 1%er Says:

    Go get him Joe. SAVE THE PATCH!

  2. coolhandLuke Says:

    They keep tryin, matters like this will have a distinct impact on all.

  3. FF Says:

    The federal government couldn’t be bothered with warning after warning about the Tsaernov brothers. yet they have time, endless resources and taxpayer confiscated funds for this BS.


  4. Sohn Says:

    I don’t understand why Bernstien didn’t argue corrupt cops, whom have used the color of their authority in large groups to gain illicit profits. When charged have pled and admitted to their I’ll deeds. All Despite the fact that their charters and oaths forbade their conduct. Wright does seem to either have a prejudice or lacks the intellect required for his post.

  5. 11c_infantry Says:

    What people like “Judge” Wright don’t understand is our bylaws (along with the unwritten rules associated with the club community) actually DO mean something to us. They most definitely are not a joke except to losers like this guy. Being lectured by a douche like Wright about the Mongols’ bylaws being a joke must have been difficult for any thinking human-being in the courtroom, especially considering the fact that Wright’s limited understanding of the bylaws of this nation (the Constitution) is so glaringly obvious.

  6. Paladin Says:

    I had remarked regarding Judge Wright’s stated prejudicial remarks on Rebel’s prior story about the Mongol’s forfeiture case.

    Because I’m not involved in the case, I obviously don’t know any of the details. However; I’m a bit surprised that Mr. Bernstein quite the case and didn’t immediately file the motion that Mr. Yanny did, after Judge Wright’s previous on the record remarks, at the last pretrial hearing.

    Long May You Ride (t0 those that deserve to),


  7. Glenn S. Says:

    I’m impressed.

  8. FBomb Says:

    I agree with Paladin…why didn’t the previous attorney file this motion? I was somewhat surprised that he stepped down after the browbeating he took from Wright.

    Any idea or speculation as to what went on behind the scenes to get Wright assigned to the case in the first place? Seems since he heard 40 of the cases from Black Rain he would immediately be disqualified to judge the case.

  9. jj solari Says:

    judges are the most powerful people in government and nobody knows where they come from or who they are or anything else about them. they just exist. but hey we get to vote for our representatives at least – people who never sentence us to prison HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. those guys we know how long their dicks are and how much jizz they squirt when they splooge. who came up with all this assbackwards crap? Klowney The Swollen Brained Psykho Klown?

  10. Jeff Diamond Says:

    @Paladin I have no club affiliations and I do not know this case’s details, but I’ll give my best guess: Bernstein saw the writing on the wall and quit because by doing so he establishes a record of blatant and biased hostility from the bench. We may look back on this one act as the turning point for the defendants.

  11. CN Says:

    What we have here is a Government at war with the governed. Whether it’s the Mongols having their insignia outlawed and confiscated or Tea Party Organizations being denied tax exempt status then singled out by the IRS for special treatment/harassment or the militarization of local Police Forces with equipment designed to intimidate and overwhelm, all these are tactics of a battle the outcome of which is to test the resolve of the governed. The question remains who will knuckle under and who will stand and fight. In the case of Motorcycle Clubs this calls for something radical such as a unification of the Clubs such that their numbers and resources can be marsalled and coordinated to present a greater defense or more difficult target by virtue of it’s combined size and make no mistake, such a unification is still only on the wish list and not in the cart. That might lead to all sorts of new thinking such as how the Clubs treat each other and show respect one to another. In that some will see it as a sign of weakness is the paradoxical state of it. Unification would produce strength in numbers and resources but run counter to traditional autonomy plus the added histories of how Clubs have had differences in the past. If the Government goes full bore against all the 1%’er MC’s as they have tested in their treatment of the Mongols & Pagans, the Clubs will either put aside long held differences and circle the wagons or take their chances on their own. The Government has no such problem nor any lack of resources and are betting that the MC’s will never come together or come together only when it is too late. Any Member who has put aside all else and become a Brother well knows the sacrafice and continued comittment it takes to keep his patch. As is said, it is harder to keep a patch than to get one. While there are numerous similarities the Clubs all share there too are very real differences and especially histories that will need to be handled with care for any real unification to become a reality and remember we are talking a world wide shift not just a national or regional change which in and of itself will be an incredible task. Honestly, I don’t know if it can be pulled off. I’ve seen neighborhoods where deep resentments between households have melted away in the face of common crisis but the magnitude of that and something like this are widely different. Nations and cultures with past conflicts have over time become allies but usually only after one has dominance over the other post conflict. It is rare indeed to see long held hatred and resentment disolved when pride and history begs to differ. To forgive and forget usually involves the next generation of a group to obtain but without those two ingredients no temporary truce nor arbitration brought forth by necessity will long endure. And, that’s the paradox because for all to endure and remain they will perhaps have to not only tolerate each other but actually unite which would make null and void what has always been regarded as a truth.

  12. FF Says:


    I think the problem with unification is the level of agent provocateurs in each club. You also have the press creating false narratives, choosing sides, and we all know that the piss stream media is a 5th column spewing government propaganda.

    Mind you, I’m a civilian, a citizen, with no axe to grind.

    My 2 cents the bigger an organization, the more corrupt and decadent it becomes. The more penetrable it becomes to the enemy, with it’s unlimited resources and finance.

    I would move in the opposite direction.

    Keep in mind the IRA at the height of it’s power only had maybe 500 members in Northern Ireland, yet were able to keep Great Britain, with over 100,000 soldiers in Belfast, and M1 at a stalemate for 25 years.

  13. jj solari Says:

    everyone thinks what we gut here is the government of america. what we actually have is the government of king george on steroids and meth: we took all of england’s brutality and mercilessness toward the american colonists and moved it all here to save all the ocean-going. worked too: DC can now fuck us up without ever launching ships to do it. score one for the Federalists.

  14. BMW Says:

    From my reading, it is clear that the Stazi who have infiltrated our government have chosen and targeted the clubs that they think they most easily bulldoze into oblivion. However, if they succeed, these haters-of-freedom will target everything they hate — from bike clubs to the Boy Scouts.

    I think the Stazis embedded in government believe that the resources of members of the club might be at a low point after the successful persecution of so many members. The political police think they can bulldoze the Mongols because of all the guilty pleas generated after the entrapment of dozens of members by a group of infiltrators/provocateurs.

    I’m not a member of the Mongols, don’t have any knowledge of the club or the court cases, but I can see that the Mongols are not the real target — any organization that refuses to bow down is the target. The Mongols are just the most opportune target at this time.

    As a group, motorcycle clubs must bury the hatchet and and unite to protect their right to associate and ride. There is not much time!

  15. ocmouse22 Says:

    Just in case you have been living under a rock this past month there is a movement to get the clubs together to fight this. Stop talking shit and get involved. Contact your local COC. Save the patch.

  16. FF Says:

    A herd is easy to drive over a cliff.

    I say scatter.

  17. Glenn S. Says:

    F Bomb said: “…why didn’t the previous attorney file this motion? I was somewhat surprised that he stepped down after the browbeating he took from Wright.”

    The practice of law is often about relationships, not the law and surely not right and wrong. That lawyer probably decided that being on good terms with the judge and US attorney, whom he would have to deal with again, was more important than defending his clients to the best of his ability.

    But give him credit for bowing out. Some lawyers will sell out their clients to maintain good relations. The first lawyer probably represents a lot of clients that cannot afford a trial and instead settle for the best plea bargain they can get. This type of lawyer is generally known as a “fixer”. They rarely take cases to trial.

    The new lawyer doesn’t sound like one of that type.

  18. Paladin Says:

    The Government levers fear, the same as any school yard or neighborhood bully. And like the schoolyard or neighborhood bully, when they get a black eye, they tend to back off.

    Where I live, we don’t hear much anymore about the activities of the numerous street gangs that populate CA. I don’t believe the street gangs are any less active today than they were in years past. However; I do believe that the local, State and Federal Government has stopped boasting about their crime fighting abilities against this particular subculture for the following reasons; 1) the number and population of street gangs has grown to such an extant that they have overcome law enforcement’s ability to effectively combat them. 2) Street gangs have shown no qualms about killing cops, prosecutors, judges, wittiness’s, or anyone else that they feel is a threat. 3) For the most part, street gangs and their members are fearless.

    In order for the Government to be in control, the Government needs to be feared. Because street gangs have acquired reason #1 and graphically demonstrated reasons #2 & 3, they’ve effectively dotted the Government bully’s eye and bloodied its nose. As a result, the Government has sought out and found a softer and easier target (the MC) to persecute and put on public display. Meanwhile; street gangs have become a subculture operating out where the buses (Government’s law enforcement) won’t run. If you doubt this, take a look at the doings in parts of Oakland, CA or other parts of the Country.

    MCs too need to give the Government a black eye. Only then will the Government bully and its law enforcement gang back off. I believe one of the best ways to do this is through a PR campaign that graphically shows the public that on a daily basis, members of law enforcement commit far more crimes than bikers or members of MCs do. This information can be had all over the internet. Unfortunately; this information is scattered all over the internet and therefore doesn’t and can’t have the impact it should and could have if it were coordinated under the roof of a PR company and publicized for the citizenry to see. The citizenry also really needs to see what their law enforcement tax dollars are being wasted on and by whom.

    Long May You Ride (to those that deserve to)


  19. Stevo Says:


    I served in Northern Ireland and let me tell you, we knew who the IRA were, where they were, and could have wiped them off the face of the planet in 24 hours. Why didn’t we? Because of pressure from the US government. It was well known that the Kennedy’s funded the IRA. The US government funded and supported the terrorists in Ulster just like they did in Afghanistan, Iran, Nicuragua etcetcetc


  20. Ronbo Says:

    Or has organized crime become so common that it is no longer
    “news”. Just saw an article from 57 that called a club “gang” Jump to my attention since I been readin here.

  21. OC VAGO 1%er Says:

    You can pontificate until you are locked up like a North Korean dissident. If you don’t DO something you will be locked up like a North Korean dissident.

    SAVE THE PATCH! Contact your local COC. Buy a t-shirt. Send a $10 donation. Anything and everything helps. SAVE THE PATCH!

  22. Sieg Says:

    Damn, Stevo, ya mean the Kennedy’s funded the UVF and the UDA???

    Learn something new every day.


  23. BMW Says:

    “SAVE THE PATCH” is a great first step, (and I whole-heartedly support it) but until motorcycle clubs stop feuding and start cooperating, we will continue to be the victims of infiltration, provocation, persecution and attempted annihilation by the “powers that be”. We are the current “bad guys against which the LEOs are fighting”. They realize they can not fight the terrorists — the Boston Marathon bombing demonstrated their inability to follow up on advance warnings of that threat. The LEOs can no longer use new immigrants, anarchists and union organizers as the boogeyman as they did in the teens, twenties and thirties. They can no longer use the black community or the communists as the boogeyman as they did in the forties, fifties and sixties. So LEOs believe they can continue their program of militarization of local police, expanded surveillance, destruction of the US Constitution by focusing on the “threat” of “motorcycle gangs”.

    A government that uses an exaggerated “threat” from a small minority is very old news. We can now rationally examine how the Roman Emperor Nero blamed unpopular acts and events on “Christians” or how Hitler blamed “the Jews” for his government’s inability to overcome the economic effects of the Great Depression. Once before the United States LEO concentrated on small, mostly rural groups — such as John Dillinger and Bonny and Clyde — as the “reason” we needed expanded federal legislation on cars, guns and bank robbery — all of which had previously been the focus of state criminal laws. If you look at the total activity of all these “gangs”, they had less negative impact on American citizens than any one of the largest banks. If you look at the actions of these “outlaws”, they were absolutely minimal in comparison to the developing “Mob” in the big cities. But the government — and the press — were trying to get citizens to focus on the “threat” of rural groups, and ignore the fact that the banks and the newly centralized Mob (which was in the process allying itself with Big City politicians) — were doing immense damage to the economy and the citizenry.

    I think we can look at the efforts of the old civil rights movement for ideas about how we can proceed to defend our rights and the rights of ALL Americans. The tactics worked for them, and they might work for us. I know this sounds very radical for 1%ers or 1% clubs, but we only need to adapt these tactics to today, we don’t need to re-invent the wheel.

    We need to look at the effects of the LEO civil-rights encroachment on ALL Americans, not just on bikers. These same rights-violations can be used against labor unions, for one example. That is the reason that the Maritime Union and the Electrical Trades Union have been the biggest donors to the Australian fight against draconian rules imposed by government. They are finding their members are being stripped of necessary trade licenses.

    It is no stretch to see that the “criminal gang” legislation (and associated court decisions) could be used against any group or any picket line in the United States. Labor unions, anti-abortion fighters, even plain old citizens demanding that their government DO SOMETHING (about anything) could equally be targets of this infringement on Americans’ right to freely associate, distribute literature, petition the government or join together.

    We have to look for the universal possibilities for application of these court decisions and associated legislation if we want to fight for our rights!

  24. Stevo Says:


    One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter I suppose.


  25. Dr. Sardonicus Says:

    @ Stevo – The Kennedys? And which “Kennedys” might that be? There were dozens at the time. Do you mean the Fitzgeralds? Rather risky politically speaking – what about Reagan? He was Irish as well.

    No disrespect, just curious.

  26. FF Says:

    Maybe the IRA was a bad analogy, no disrespect to anybody and respect to your service.

    My point is when people talk about unification, all that does is create one, big, easy target for the liars/lawyers who make and manipulate the laws for the federal government.

    Also, you’d need a leader. Who would that be?

    Too many ulterior motives and agendas. It would never work.

    Plus, if it’s a war, you are outnumbered. You will always be outnumbered. You can’t fight them head on.

    You have to create as many separate moving targets as possible. Manpower, logistics, financing does have a limit. Right now it doesn’t seem like that, but it does.

    The economy is gonna go kerplunk. It will. Just like it did in Weimar Germany. It’s coming, I know it is. I can feel it.

    Evade, obfuscate, and ignore the enemy. Acknowledging them gives them legitimacy and the PRESS is a 5th column that will indoctrinate the general public that the federal government is the “good guy”.

    Time is on OUR side. Let time work it’s magic, these bastards are all going down.

    You do not want history to record that you were the last institution of freedom that the federales were able to destroy BEFORE WROL.

  27. Sieg Says:

    Stevo, you hit that nail on the head.

    Straight-up, I was raised on old-school Fenian propaganda, but I got no brief for ANY of the players in that mess these days. Seems to have devolved into gangsterism to me, but hey-I’m an Ami, so it ain’t my place to say.

    Just like to see everyone get their share of glory, and if the IRA is to be labeled terrorists, then the other side is just as guilty.


  28. Jim666 Says:

    @ BMW
    If all the outlaw/1% mc`s and their supporters didnt exist there would not be 100th of a 1% drop in crime in the U.S.
    That alone should speak volumes

  29. Dr. Sardonicus Says:

    As we speak similar forces are at work in the Ukraine which is about to implode any day now. Factions, splinter groups, guerilla and underground influences, mercenaries and paid assassins infiltrating all sides.

  30. FF Says:



    that’s what the damn media should be reporting instead of all the sensationalist crap they put out. L&R to you

    Meanwhile, in Ukraine:

    I’m surprised a piece of left wing fish wrap like the NY daily news is finally reporting on this.

  31. BMW Says:

    I did not want to deal with the IRA in my previous post, because the fight for Irish Independence is a very different issue. I did not want to confuse the issue — although I learned the history of the Irish efforts for freedom and independence at a fairly young age.

    I don’t think there is any question that the Ribbonmen, agricultural reform activists, Molly Maguires and Irish Republican Brotherhood were all fighters for Irish freedom and independence. I think that the fact that many of the historical leaders of the Irish independence movement, like Charles Stuart Parnell, were actually Protestants speaks to the fact that these organizations were legitimate.

  32. Mag Says:

    @CN – “While there are numerous similarities the Clubs all share there too are very real differences and especially histories that will need to be handled with care for any real unification to become a reality and remember we are talking a world wide shift not just a national or regional change which in and of itself will be an incredible task. Honestly, I don’t know if it can be pulled off. I’ve seen neighborhoods where deep resentments between households have melted away in the face of common crisis but the magnitude of that and something like this are widely different. Nations and cultures with past conflicts have over time become allies but usually only after one has dominance over the other post conflict. It is rare indeed to see long held hatred and resentment disolved when pride and history begs to differ. To forgive and forget usually involves the next generation of a group to obtain but without those two ingredients no temporary truce nor arbitration brought forth by necessity will long endure. And, that’s the paradox because for all to endure and remain they will perhaps have to not only tolerate each other but actually unite which would make null and void what has always been regarded as a truth.”

    Respectfully – what it takes is two things. Sufficient crisis, and serendipitously timely leadership.

  33. Jim666 Says:

    FF I think that’s what the U.S. government is wanting

  34. ocmouse22 Says:

    Mag we all know and have heard the reasons clubs have a hard time getting together. So why don’t you tell us all how to fix it, if you can’t then you’re just bitching to hear yourself talk. I’m am trying to get the clubs together to fight our common enemy. I’ll keep at it till someone kills me or the feds lock me up. That is why we are pushing save the patch its a start.

  35. FF Says:


    Obastard’s security goons have already set the precedent ostensibly because they were “threatened” by an unarmed woman with a baby in the car and heck, she might have been a TERRORIST!!!

    Let them unload on a white mob like whats going on in Kiev and it will be just the spark to wake up whitey and unleash holy hell on the pigs and the lawyer kleptocracy they goon for.

    Remember, those good white people in Ukraine standing up to communist thugs are unarmed, WE’RE NOT.



  36. Mag Says:

    @ocmouse22 – Respectfully, I don’t think a solution is possible yet; things are still transforming and until there’s enough of a demand for more organized or conferenced leadership, it’s not likely to change. Claire Wolfe said famously that “it’s that awkward time when it’s too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards.”

    Maybe a better way to put it is that until there’s enough State tyranny across the board for the general population to view violent resistance to the government as rightful, it’s unlikely that the clubs will find a higher purpose that overcomes the smaller resentments and rivalries.

    I do think the clubs are a reservoir of power. It’s just not provoked yet into more coalesced opposition to the State, and there aren’t enough allies yet.

    Tyrannies always miscalculate, however – just as all Romes burn, all oppressors overreach. We’ll see it happen eventually.

    Perhaps another way to put it is that this has to evolve – not be forced to happen before the times demand.

  37. Paladin Says:


    In order to span the rift that exists between the clubs, the CoCs (if they haven’t already) are going to have to start networking. Because the slandering of MCs has become a Nation wide problem, it’s going to take a Nation wide effort to remedy.

    I’ve posted about this to the point of sounding like a broken record, but I think the governing members of the different CoC’s need to work with a PR firm. PR firms have many ways of dealing with negative propaganda and are very good at the broadcasting and placement of good propaganda. That’s their business. It’s what they do, and their very good at it.

    Any tactician will tell you that you’ll never win anything by continually playing defense. Having a rally on the steps of a State’s capitol (when no one’s home) is certainly a start, but billboards, statements placed in newspapers, radio talk show interviews, etc. will have a greater impact, by reaching a larger cross-section of the general public. The longer your message is in their collective face, the greater the impact.

    In martial arts, there’s a saying; where the head goes, so does the body. This saying can also be applied to politics, but in politics, where the body goes, so does the head, also applies. If the “body” is the citizenry and the “head” is its electorate, changing the perception of the citizenry will cause its two faced, elected officials to follow.

    To change the general population’s perception of the MC and the biker lifestyle will require a substantial monetary investment. However; I believe to do otherwise is to seal the fate of the MC, and its collective lifestyle.

    Long May You Ride (to those that deserve to),


  38. ocmouse22 Says:

    If anyone that reads these threads has contacts to other clubs across the nation by all means give them my email address or the chairs on the COCs give them my email address. Help the cause don’t tell me why it can’t be done. Clubs don’t have to like each other to fight a common enemy. The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.

  39. dizzydesi Says:

    Mag says: “it’s that awkward time when it’s too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards.”

    Just really thinking over Mag’s and Paladin’s posts. A lot to mull over for other groups (not just bikers). like the whole hacker/resistance war going on…

    it’s hard to have patience i can see ocmouse22’s point too. When? I don’t know. How can things get any worse? I don’t even want to know.


    Ashley, something is wrong with my handle.. But maybe Sunday. Just having some alone time now… See you. if we were any tighter we’de have an umbilical attachment. Just staying in. Don’t be mad..

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