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Karl Twilleager Gets Five Years

Sat, Dec 7, 2013

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Karl Twilleager Gets Five Years

Karl “King Karl” Twilleager, a member of the Ghost Riders Motorcycle Club from Spanaway, Washington was sentenced yesterday by a federal judge in Tacoma to five years in prison for possessing firearms and explosives. He had faced up to 20 years. Twilleager was arrested last June 13 and signed a plea deal on September 5.

Twilleager is 66 and suffers from Type II diabetes. He was diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder in 2005. He is a Vietnam veteran.

He was convicted of Second Degree Murder in state court in 1994 and was sentenced then to serve 12 years in prison.

Dueling Sentencing Memos

Twilleager’s case was investigated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. After searching a garage behind Twilleager’s home and a storage unit rented by him, ATF Agents recovered a total of 12 firearms and two sticks of emulsion explosives. Emulsion explosives comprise an oxidizer dissolved in water and dispersed in a fuel emulsion. Government agents described the garage as the “Ghost Riders Motorcycle Gang Clubhouse.”

According to the prosecution’s sentencing memorandum, Twilleager had planned to bomb “Uncle Sam’s Bar and Grill in Spanaway, known to be a favored hangout of a rival motorcycle gang, the Bandidos. This attack was to be in retaliation for Defendant Twilleager and about eight of his brother Ghost Riders having been tricked and assaulted at that very location on June 2, 2012.”

In his sentencing memo to the judge Twilleager’s attorney, James B. Feldman quoted William M. Dulaney who wrote: “What seems clear is that neither the American government nor society is attending to the effects of war on such individuals. Indeed it appears that no process exists by which combat veterans are able to assume their role as citizens, as people. Because of this lack of structured re-assimilation into American society, certain combat veterans have created over time a culture in which they are accepted as the people they have become. The outlaw motorcycle club structure can be seen as a society built along militaristic, hierarchal lines, a highly ordered, controlled and black and white world in which individuals may understand their role, their identity, their place in society.”

More Words

In the press release announcing the sentence, Jenny A. Durkan, the United States Attorney for the Western District of Washington claimed Twilleager was a danger to society.

“The possession of illegal firearms and explosives by violent felons endangers a whole community,” Durkan said in the release. “This defendant and his gang planned a violent attack on rivals that could have caused serious injuries or deaths. Innocent bystanders could have been caught up in the carnage. The very act of storing those explosives illegally in the storage locker posed risks to the community should they be stolen or ignite accidently.”

In his sentencing statement, Twilleager wrote: “…I wanted to take this opportunity to apologize for my crimes. I understand that my actions have consequences beyond their effect on my freedom. I am especially saddened by the distress, fear and anxiety my crimes have caused to my friend, Rose, who has suffered most from this. She has shown me only love and support an does not deserve what I have caused her.

“I understand that it may be difficult for the court to show me leniency considering my history but I am accepting a long prison term and only hope that my health will be good enough at the end of the sentence where I might still be able to enjoy some time while free.”

 

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77 Comments For This Post

  1. Freeman Says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSp8IyaKCs0

  2. Sieg Says:

    Welcome to the club, sir. Hope you do the easiest time you can.

    Let’s see, if he caught 60 months, he’ll have to do 51 of them in-custody. Given his age and health issues, I’d bet he’ll either end-up in Springfield or Rochester. Either one is a vast improvement over a regular USP. Probably have to do a minit in a USP or an FCI before he gets re-classified, but I doubt it will be long.

    Best of luck.

    FTF/FTP
    TOSIAR
    5 to 1
    SYLO

  3. CN Says:

    My Dad went down with three ships in WWII and his bet buddy (before and after the war) was a Marine who fought at Guadal Canal or some such hell hole and while my Dad seemed okay his budddy who I called Uncle Eddie would be fine one minute watching TV with the family in the living room then the next minute for no apparent reason was right back in battle and would trash the living room while his family ran for the doors. He drove a Trailways Bus and it never happened on the job but sometimes did when her was home. Far as I know, right up until the time he died in the 80′s he still had those occasional flash backs. He went to the VA but they told him since he was a productive member of society that he probably had a drinking problem and to give up the booze (he maybe drank a six pack a week). My experiences with the VA have all been bad but tis ain’t about me. What I’m hearing from Vets my age and younger is that the back log at the VA is longer than shit and once you get seen they want to know shit like “you got any guns in the house, been beating your wife and kids, smoke dope, thinking about hurting yourself or others”, and this shit happens whether you are there for PTSD of an eye exam for a pair of glasses. I wouldn’t know because my one and only experience with these useless fucks was my last. Dad died in 2002 at 86. My Mom took a fall receintly and signed up for an assisted living center and even with a full pension from her former employer plus Social Security they want her to sign up for a widows pension from the VA but first she has to come up with his DD-214 (correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think they had DD-214s back after WWII). Anyways, whatever they do have, she was told, was going to take the VA 18 months to come up with. PTSD is a very real thing and sometimes it’s as obvious as an elephant or as silent as a snake in the grass at night and it’s not only the bane of Vets, lots of folks can develope this shit but obtaining effective treatment for it is another ball game altogether. Whether or not this particualr gentleman will be able to obtain proper treatment in prison is obvious, HE WILL NOT. Whether or not the courts will start to take into account that PTSD, combat related or otherwise is relevant in criminal cases depends in part on how seriously the government takes it with Vets so I’m less than hopeful, at least in the short term. When I mustered out I was sent from my unit to transitory platoon which was two weeks of siting on my ass at Camp Pendleton waiting for my paperwork to get processed. I don’t recall any psych eval but then again I didn’t ask for one. Sorry, again this ain’t about me and yeah my spelling and grammer suck. Thanks for letting me vent.

  4. Sieg Says:

    A few more tidbits…

    Twilleager is in FDC SEATAC, which is, mostly, a holding joint. They do have units for people doing a bit, but a lot of their space is pre-trial and ICE detentions. Not the best, but I’d bet he will stay there until his review, which should be in six months. He will probably be re-classified then, and may be re-assigned depending on his security level.

    Don’t have a clue what his sheet looks like, except for the Murder 2 beef he caught in 94. They can’t-supposedly-use that in his classification hearing as it’s more than ten years old. If they do use it, then he will proly get a nice high classification, which will start him of for at least the first few years in a USP. Not the result you want.

    If anyone reading this has access to him in any way, shape, or form, encourage him to cop-out on the health tip. If he hollers long and loud enough, he can get himself transferred to one of the med facilities I mentioned above, well before his review date. Were I him, I’d hit the diabetes thing hard, and also the age bit. The PTSD, well, that can backfire on you. I requested counseling for it, and all they were willing to do was supply me with pills. No thanks. If they feel you have PTSD, it can kick-up your classification, since they see it as increasing the likelihood of your attacking someone.

    The Fed sucks.

    FTF/FTP
    TOSIAR
    5 to 1
    SYLO

  5. jj solari Says:

    is this a great country or what. here is a guy who is going to jail for the crime of owning something. the crime of having property, of being the owner of some objects is why he is in jail. the crime of ownership. he had some things that were actually his. so he is going to jail for that. oh!….i almost forgot his other crime for which he is in jail: he had some – alleged by others – intentions. he was GOING to do something. he didnt do it yet. he was going to. he is jail for a crime HE not only did not actually commit, NOBODY committed it.so he is in jail for an event that never happened. PLUS the fact that he was even going to do something that hadnt gotten done…even that is kind of up in the air, whether he was actually going to do the uncommitted crime or not. so lets review: an american citizen in the land of the free is going to be in a concrete room for five years for owning some things that were actually his: and for not blowing something up. fantastic. i would lay down my life to ensure this way of life for future generations, no problem.

  6. Road Whore Says:

    You know…we LOVE our gladiators; as long as they’re performing safely for us in the public spectacle cage. We don’t respect them, but we do love them. We love to watch their violence. For some it’s a vicarious thrill experienced through the vitality of another who has the guts to do what the viewer does not. For others it’s a perverted pleasure derived from watching human beings hurt each other. For many I suspect it’s a way of expressing a hope that “they” will finish each other off, leaving the world a better place for Us.

    All gladiators, from boxers to soldiers, are exposed to the same love/no respect equation that plays out in the public arena.

    Mike Tyson. Say what you will, the record shows that he was one of the greatest boxers of all time. Did he have a fucked up life? By his own admission many times, said admission which he has now turned into a very enjoyable stage show, yes. But the record speaks for itself. He was amazingly knowledgeable about boxing, both its history and its techniques. He was faster than greased lightning. His punching power speaks for itself. We loved–didn’t respect–but loved that he came into the ring wearing a fucking towel with a hole cut out to go over his head like some type of primitive poncho, no socks, all sweaty and ready for the kill.

    We loved that when the bell rang Mike became a raging bull and charged across the ring to devastate his opponent. The bully…

    Yes, the bully. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been in a bar drinking and heard people accuse Tyson of being a bully! Why? Simply because of that: that he charged his opponent head-on…“We’re here to fight, motherfucker. Let’s get it on!” Because he didn’t prance and dance and fawn, but rather he got right to the heart of what it really is, which is trying your best to fuck another man up before he fucks you up; he exposed the reality of what the “sport” of boxing is: merciless combat. And when he did that, he shown a powerful light on the spectators who did not want anyone to know what they already knew in their heart of hearts. It’s a shame to admit the truth, isn’t it, when that truth is dark, and ugly, and evil, full of malicious intent and perversion…not the light-hearted admiration with which you cloaked it for so long.

    No, you didn’t enjoy the “sport” of boxing. You didn’t admire its technique, its finesse, and its adopted declaration that you were watching “two men standing tall to see who is a better technician.” No…you loved to watch someone’s face contort as teeth and blood flew, and damn if you cared if the beaten man was okay the next day, or not. Or how he fared in the weeks and months to come. “He knew the risks going in…”

    Then Mike drew aside all cloak of pretense. Watch the fight…Mike gave a commentary of what went on and why he mentally and emotionally lost it and did what he did. Holyfield head-butted him…not once, but twice, and Mike twice complained to the referee and the ref did nothing, not even warning Holyfield, and Mike lost it and said fine, motherfucker, you head butt me again, off comes a part of your ear.

    Oh, shit! Now the curtain is fully drawn back and we see the Wizard. Damn, this is some brutal fucking shit! And you fucking loved every second of it! Publicly you damned Tyson for his actions, but privately you watched it again and again and again and relished every slow motion replay of it. “My fucking boss…I wish I could have bitten his fucking ear off!”

    Soliders. Tyson was a soldier. He just didn’t carry a gun. But boy, we sure did like him while he was entertaining us in his cage. Until he exposed the reality of what we really enjoy about the sport.

    Soldiers…with a gun. Take a young man, 18 years of age. He’s learning to fuck pretty good…maybe even has a steady girl. He’s learning that what you’re taught in school ain’t the truth, and that society doesn’t work the way it’s been proclaimed to, but he’s pretty good lookin’ and maybe he could run pretty good with a football, and he’s got some friends, and his family’s proud of him, and he enjoys a good steak and a good movie and a cruise in the car with his friends. Life is still fairly sweet, especially when you’re gettin’ some of that pussy, and when an older friend can get you some beer. Food tastes good. The air smells good. The future is good…he thinks.

    Swept up by patriotism he wants to make a difference for the country that has given him this faulty education and enabled him to enjoy some pussy and some beers and to have achieved some high school football memories that will serve him the rest of his life, and he’s been informed that there are some bad cats out there who want to come to our country and take away his pussy and beer and memories. He ain’t gonna let that happen, by god! So he enlists.

    Our good young man is now taught to act only on orders. He no longer is to have any original or creative thoughts, but is to rise when told, eat what he’s told, do what he is told, and to go to bed when he is told. He is taught how to kill his fellow man. Another human being somewhere that’s gettin’ some pretty good pussy and may be drinking some beers, and has some music and country and history and tradition that he enjoys and is also willing to fight for.

    We equip (sometimes) our young man for this battle and send him off to kill his otherworld counterpart. I have not killed a man in battle, so I cannot imagine the feeling that comes over you like a dark cloak that you must wear for the rest of your days because you have taken a fellow human being’s life away from him, but I imagine it is not a pleasant sensation.

    So, just like Tyson in a cage, we express our love for this soldier as long as he’s doing what he’s told and is dispatching the enemy with as much efficiency as possible. Kill, motherfucker, kill! But we have as much respect for him as we did for Tyson…we love that he’s out there taking names and killing ass for us, on our behalf, on behalf of our flag, our country, our freedoms, our way of life. But respect him? No…what kind of defective murderous thug could do such a thing? I want him out there on the battlefield preserving my right to listen to Heavy Metal on my iPod, but I don’t want that debauched killer sitting next to me in church for crissake. And don’t you dare try to unburden yourself of the deeds you committed by talking to me about them!

    War is a glorious thing to watch…as long as you don’t have to watch it from the front lines.

    So this killer we’ve trained comes home and we would no more invite him to the party than we would Mike Tyson: he might fart in the punch bowl for crissake! No telling what such a wild animal will do! Better keep him at a distance…anybody got a cage handy? A jail cell maybe, with which we can contain this dangerous beast unless we need his trained propensity for violence again. Until we need a personal favor, maybe…“Listen, this man keeps grabbing my wife’s tits and I don’t want to suffer the ramifications from giving him a well-deserved and good old fashioned stomping, so…how much do you want to sort this out for me…killer?”

    So our boy comes back a man who has been twisted out of shape to fit our desires, and when he comes to us for our approval we shake our heads sadly and decry what he has done in our name. “But…I did what I was commanded to do. I carried out your wishes. I killed in the name of my country so that you could have the right to listen to your music on your iPod.” Yes…but my god! Torturer…baby killer…murderer. I saw the wire photos of you pissing on that corpse! It’s okay to kill a man, but my god, what kind of an animal pisses on his corpse? That’s not The Marquess of Queensberry rules! Keep your distance from me lest your evil deeds rub off on me and taint my good life.

    So our man turns to his buddies, the ones who were there, and they get it. They understand it. They’ve lived it. And they see our society for what it is…a microcosm of the macrocosm of the battlefield. Ah…now I know how to handle this return home, how to reintegrate into this society that has defiled me for its purposes. Because you see, we taught him how we wanted him to be over there, but we didn’t re-train him as to how we expected him to be when he returned home.

    As Rebel quotes above:

    In his sentencing memo to the judge Twilleager’s attorney, James B. Feldman quoted William M. Dulaney who wrote: “What seems clear is that neither the American government nor society is attending to the effects of war on such individuals. Indeed it appears that no process exists by which combat veterans are able to assume their role as citizens, as people. Because of this lack of structured re-assimilation into American society, certain combat veterans have created over time a culture in which they are accepted as the people they have become. The outlaw motorcycle club structure can be seen as a society built along militaristic, hierarchal lines, a highly ordered, controlled and black and white world in which individuals may understand their role, their identity, their place in society.”

    A place where a man respects a man; understands that a right is a right and a wrong is a wrong. A place where all that have pulled aside the curtain and revealed the Wizard may live together.

    Now, if we can just get club to respect club, to all come together in a united cause, to help Save The Patch and a way of life that appears to have been so helpful to so many…maybe those who have fought so hard to do so can continue the fight and move our government to respect those whom they have loved on the battlefield.

    It’s one thing to cheer for a man who has suffered the loss of his leg to a mine while in battle. It’s quite another to make sure he can eat and pay his bills until someone will furnish him with meaningful employment while helping him to understand that he’s no longer required to kill on a daily basis.

    It’s one thing to love that your country’s soldiers march into the face of death and hell on your behalf; it’s quite another to meet the man face to face and respect, and understand, his actions on that battlefield, to tell him that you love him, respect him, and sympathize with, as much as you are able to, what he has endured; but now his endurance is no longer required and that we, as a nation, will help him to return, help him to adapt, help him to overcome those emotions that threaten to take him back to the front of the battlefield. It’s no longer kill or be killed.

    We do it differently over here. It may be just as deadly in the long run, but in the short run there are no guns or bullets required, no face to face combat, just a signature here, a phone call there, a law enforced here, the face of compassion turned away there.

    Welcome home, soldiers.

  7. Glenn S. Says:

    Road Whore, that was very well said, and your examples of Mike Tyson and the soldiers were very good analogies. Tyson and the soldiers both did what society told them to do and were then ostracized and punished for it. In Tyson’s case, he was probably innocent of the rape they locked him up for. All the neutral evidence points at consensual sex. But he was convicted, not because of what he did, but because of who he is in comparison to his accuser.

    When the accuser is the government and the accused is anyone who dresses, talks, or has had different life experiences than the mainstream, when the laws are written not to address actual harm done, but to make it easier to incarcerate the socially incorrect, and when the jury pools are rigged to eliminate true peers, convictions are almost certain unless the accused can present proof positive of innocence.

    Yes, society loves its gladiators but does not respect them. A gladiator named Spartacus once taught society respect and society is scared shitless that history will repeat. But they’re making damn sure that is does by repeating the mistakes of the society of Spartacus’ time.

  8. Snow Says:

    Both Road Whore and Glen S. Said it better than I could have so all I’m going to add is,;
    We spend billions to send our people to war and spend pennies on them when they return.
    WTF kinda system is that?
    Support Your Local
    FTF ACAB
    Snow

  9. N P Says:

    Thanks to all for the great posts. What the hell is the difference between USP and FCI ? And what does the post office have to do with any of it ?

  10. N P Says:

    Let me venture a guess: the P is for penitentiary, where one does a penance, much like reciting prayers after confession. This would imply a punishment. The C is for correctional, where a man can recognize and somehow correct his obviously incorrect ways. It’s amazing that our government would actually define the difference in name. I guess the pen may as well be at a huge rock quarry.

  11. Panhead Says:

    @ Road Whore…

    Well done.
    After reading that, well, my over opinionated ass has nothing to offer.
    In the immortal words of ‘Bubbas’ everywhere, “what he said.”

    Pan
    ’93′

  12. JMacK Says:

    Road Whore,

    Very moving. And true. And disturbing.
    Couldn’t have said it any better myself.

    Thank you and much Respect
    JMacK

  13. Budweiser Says:

    Road Whore- While I can understand what you wrote, you left out one big difference. Mike made almost 400 million and blew it all. I was a huge fan of his. Saw him fight live twice and actually met him earlier this year in Vegas at the UFC. Please don’t group him with mentally wounded soldiers.

  14. rollinnorth Says:

    N P:

    BOP web site:
    http://www.bop.gov/locations/institutions/index.jsp

    Respect.

  15. rollinnorth Says:

    Well said, Road Whore. Thank you.

    Respect.

  16. CN Says:

    Well said Road Whore. Thanks.

  17. Paladin Says:

    From the time of birth, society teaches us that the taking of a life, other than in the defense of self or another is wrong. We are taught this by our parents, teachers, and church. We are also taught that we will be punished for doing otherwise.

    The military machine of any country knows that in order to field soldiers, they have to undo society’s teachings. The military does this by a systematic, dehumanizing of the opposing force. Depending on their ethnicity, they’re referred to as Japs, Krauts, Slopes, Chinks, Gooks, etc. This “reprogramming” combined with a huge dose of patriotic propaganda allows the soldier to enter a combat zone and do the bidding of the political machine that sent him there.

    When actually engaging an enemy force, the last thing a soldier is going to be thinking about is “mom and apple pie”. A soldier is going to feel the fear of being hurt or killed. A soldier is going to feel anger, because someone is trying to hurt or kill him. A soldier is going to feel hatred, because his buddy was hurt or killed. In an instant, a soldier’s mind set becomes black and white. There’s “us” and there’s “them”. In order for “us” to make it home, we need to kill “them”. Live this way long enough, and living on adrenalin becomes a way of life.

    When a soldier arrives home, he’s combat programmed. No one has made much if any effort to “reprogram” his hard drive. Even with help, a soldier may never be able to completely “pick up where he left off” before he entered military service. He has left a so called civilized world filled with many shades of grey, spent an incredibly intense time in a world of black and white, and now society expects him to reenter their world with those same shades of grey. Well, when a fast moving river collides with an ocean moving onto high tide, there can be problems.

    Just because a soldier has left military service, doesn’t mean he’s still not a soldier. On some level, he will be a soldier for the rest of his life.

    After a fashion, most soldiers will reintegrate with mainstream society, some will join societies made up of individuals like themselves, and still others will be warehoused, ground up, or discarded by the very political machine they came to defend. Rebel’s story is about such an individual.

    Long may You Ride (to those that deserve to),

    Paladin

  18. Sieg Says:

    NP, I’ll save ya wading through all the bullshit on the BOP site.

    USP, United States Penitentiary, is the highest security joint around. If you have a bad security classification, this is where you start out, and maybe stay.

    FCI is a Federal Correctional Institution. What you would call a medium joint. These usually have an FCI(Camp) attached to them, which is a minimum joint.

    FPC is a Federal Prison Camp, and is a minimum security joint.

    FDC’s are Federal Detention Centers, and they are usually high-security. They hold pre-trial, ICE holds, and some doing a bit.

    You work your way up or down in classification, and that can happen relatively fast. Sometimes you can get a shot in one joint and end up in a higher security joint the same day! If they just want to rattle your cage, they can do that, keep you there for a few weeks, and send you back. The higher the classification, the more it costs to keep ya there.

    The Fed sux.

    FTF/FTP
    TOSIAR
    5 to 1
    SYLO

  19. Paladin Says:

    Budweiser,

    By your post, it’s obvious that you don’t understand what Road Whore wrote. Road Whore used Mike Tyson as an analogy as to how our society disposes of its gladiators, warriors, and soldiers, when those gladiators, soldiers, and warriors fall from favor, become an embarrassment, or affront society’s shallow sensibilities.

    You profess to have a “higher Intellect” than others that post on this site. Well, that’s an obvious lie. However; what IS absolutely true, is that you have the reading comprehension skills of an Eggplant.

    Paladin

  20. Bill Says:

    Bud, you just simply cannot ever understand what’s really being said here. In the context of his message (obviously over your head), the Tyson analogy was spot-on. It’s irrelevant how much money he made, and lost. Of infinitely further irrelevance is your “I was a huge fan of his. Saw him fight live twice and actually met him earlier this year in Vegas at the UFC”, “Meeting” an attention whore such as yourself was probably quite thrilling for Mike, an unexpected “benefit” of his decline. Please keep teaching here. You’re a total idiot, but very entertaining.

  21. N P Says:

    Thanks Sieg. One is max, the other med. I’d imagine med would be pref.

  22. Stevo Says:

    Someone once said that soldiers were ‘Lions led by donkeys’. Rudyard Kipling, maybe. What he forgot to say was that both the lions and donkeys are controlled by pigs, and tutted at by sheep.

  23. Road Whore Says:

    @ Paladin and Bill…thank you for your defense and for your insightful rejoinder to Budweiser…I couldn’t have stated it any better, therefore, with gratitude to you both and to the others on here who do “get it,” I rest my case.

    Ride Free

  24. WARider Says:

    As a vet and patch holder who suffers from PTSD, I truly understand the horrors of PTSD and what it can drive a man to do. That said it makes me sick that Twilleagers attorney would use the PTSD card to try and mitigate his clients actions but how else could his attorney make an out of control tweaker who’s been convicted of murdering a man in a bar fight by shooting him in the back look like anything other than the psychotic tweaker he is. Since the 70′s every major club in Washington has taken their turn shutting down the GR’s because they’re about being in the bag and causing problems for everybody. The stay shut down until one of these old timers gets out of prison and back into the bag then surrounds themselves with a bunch of psychotic teakers and they’re back at it again causing problems for everyone. The incident in 2012 that they were so bent out of shape about and allegedly lead to the bombing plan is one where a GR member pulled a gun and started firing indescriminately into an unarmed crowd at a cancer benefit, wounding one person. Like I said this is not the case of a valiant vet with PTSD who got caught with some things he shouldn’t have had, this is the case of a delusional tweaker and his tweaker homies planning to blow up a bar to try and make a name for themselves. The root of the problem here is meth and a lack of honor. Good riddance!

  25. Freeman Says:

    @ Road Whore

    Very true satement, disturbing but to me not surprising at all government as always tried to create a norm of what is acceptable and what is not and drive it in the minds of everybody as much as they can.

    We have a boxer over here thats became champion of the world by defeating Chad Dawson in about 76 sec, is name is Adonis Stevenson, every one rejoiced of THEIR new champion and how quickly he disposed of Dawson.

    Then media started digging the dirt on him then boom, the day before his last fight which was a week or two ago, front page in all the local media, the beloved boxer was in a street gang almost 20 years ago, did some nasty shit, was caught, sentenced, did his time, got is shit together, trained and now he is world champion. But suddenly people dont like him as much.

    Post fight interview he looks at all the media and says ” whats the point in reforming someone if 20 yrs down the line you gonna throw it back in is face and stick is nose in it” if he ever gets caught in a predicament close to what happened to Tyson or anything remotely illegal, he will be FUCKED.

  26. Sieg Says:

    WARider, I’d be more inclined to listen to your rap if you put a name on it. With what you’re putting down, I gotta admit the possibility that you’re a pig looking to fuck over another convict. Not saying you are, but that it’s a possibility.

    I don’t know Twilleager, or any other GR, but if yer gonna slander him, it should be out front.

    Man did his bit for the 2nd Degree, so what? Think he’s the only scooter tramp ever pulled someone’s ticket? He did his bit and walked out. Even if he max’ed his time, he’s been on the street almost ten years, so he ain’t THAT out of control.

    Just don’t get why someone is so eager to shit on a brother that just caught a nickel ride.

    FTF/FTP
    TOSIAR
    5 to 1
    SYLO

  27. hated and proud Says:

    WARider, how do you know they are tweakers? Do you know what a tweaker is?

    I too have PTSD, bad some days, ok some. I’m just not sure with what the shit your trying to say…

    I’ll agree with Sieg on the pretty much everything he said.

    OFFO

  28. Road Whore Says:

    @ Freeman…yep…I hear ya. Doesn’t matter who you are NOW, they’ll stick your nose in what you were THEN. Fuck ‘em all.

    Ride Free

  29. Road Whore Says:

    I’m with Sieg & hated and proud on this one.

    FTP DTM FTG FTW STP SYLPH

    Ride Free

  30. Red&Gold Says:

    War Rider speaks the truth as I understand it, no matter the “name” he signs with or doesn’t. Many don’t use their real name on the interwebs…use that to disregard what they say if you wish…but because YOU disregard it doesn’t mean it isn’t the truth…

    There is a lot more to the story then our good friend and host, Rebel, tells of here. Maybe he knows and doesn’t want to talk about it, or maybe he doesn’t know…but I will say this about this lame: He didn’t get nearly all he deserves…There is no “slander” here at all… from one local news paper: “The government believes that the gel explosives and at least some of the firearms were gathered for the purpose of a planned violent attack on ‘Uncle Sam’s Bar and Grill’ in Spanaway, known to be a favored hangout of a rival motorcycle gang, the Bandidos. This attack was to be in retaliation for Defendant Twilleager and about eight of his “brother” ghost riders having shown up at that very location on June 2, 2012 (almost exactly a year earlier),” prosecutors wrote in their sentencing memo.”and being turned away”. The gr were at a benefit event they were not invited to, and not wanted at… When they were turned away at the door, they drew and fired..These gr cowards shot a member of one of our support clubs! He is very lucky in my opinion that this he was arrested and locked up and not out on the streets. Just because the gov’t says something doesn’t mean it is automatically not the truth…Sometimes they get it right. Search the interwebs and you can read all about this, and other honorable acts taken in Washington state by this “club” over the years. To my understanding, this is the only club in Washington state that I know of that was actually booted OUT of the CoC because of the way they behave.

    This is my personal opinion only and I am not speaking for any club or person but myself.

  31. Snow Says:

    Red & Gold
    Good to see you back, hope all goes well with your recovery.
    Much respect sent your way
    Support Your Local
    FTF. ACAB
    Snow

  32. Meh Says:

    Enjoy some more ATF “public servants” at work, doing far worse than they charged Twilleager with doing.

    Even the Onion can’t make up shit like this:

    http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/atf-uses-rogue-tactics-in-storefront-stings-across-the-nation-b99146765z1-234916641.html#ixzz2mtqOuQD1

    “■ Agents pressed suspects for specific firearms that could fetch tougher penalties in court. They allowed felons to walk out of the stores armed with guns. In Wichita, agents suggested a felon take a shotgun, saw it off and bring it back — and provided instructions on how to do it. The sawed-off gun allowed them to charge the man with a more serious crime.

    ■ In Pensacola, the ATF hired a felon to run its pawnshop. The move widened the pool of potential targets, boosting arrest numbers.Even those trying to sell guns legally could be charged if they knowingly sold to a felon. The ATF’s pawnshop partner was later convicted of pointing a loaded gun at someone outside a bar. Instead of a stiff sentence typically handed down to repeat offenders in federal court, he got six months in jail — and a pat on the back from the prosecutor.”

  33. Sieg Says:

    Red&Gold, good to see you back. Had the comments about Twilleiger come from you, or really, from any of the regular posters, it would have been more normal. Seeing someone come in, apparently for the first time, and post all this stuff, well, it don’t sit right.

    All respects to you, but I will disagree. I’ll take the cons side each and every time over the FedBeast. I don’t think they EVER “get it right”. Guess we should all remember that this place of Rebel’s is truly neutral ground, and that one clubs bitter enemy may be another clubs best friend.

    That said, I will repeat, I don’t know ANY Ghost Riders. Then again, I don’t know ANY Bandidos, personally. The Bandidos I have interacted with online have all seemed to be straight-up, stand-up, but I don’t know a thing about the situation on the ground in Washington.

    I am on good terms with members of a large international club. They have a long-standing enmity with another large international club. If a non-member came in here and started talking trash about EITHER of those Patches, well, I’d call him on it just as quick.

    Guess it all boils down to this, a member of a certain club, or the club itself, could be my friend, they could be my enemy, but the FedBacon is ALWAYS gonnna be my enemy, no matter what. I’d rather cell with a BGD than live on the same block in the World with an ATF agent.

    Again, all respects to you and yours, and nothing but the best wishes, that’s just the honest way I see it.

    FTF/FTP
    TOSIAR
    5 to 1
    SYL (whoever)

  34. Budweiser Says:

    Alright, let me but it this way since everyone had to act cool and put there two cents in. To compare Mike Tyson to a US soldier who comebacks from war and has to deal with limited support and financial resources is asinine. Paladin, you are becoming just like Bill. I guarantee you if I made the Mike and soldier analogy you would have had something negative to say. I understand exactly what “Road Whore” wrote and while well written it is absolutely ridiculous. Bill, just go away with your tired “over the head” bullshit. If I followed you around from post to post, it would be a full time job. How many times have I flat out proven you wrong on here? Idiot….

  35. Va.Bob Says:

    WARider@Ihad to google up “King Karl” after your post.What a character!Hijacking a Bekins van!I know that the meth found by his wallet could have been planted,but doing that shit at age 66 is truly not giving a shit.How does one not have strokes and heart attacks at that age doing that shit?About his playing the PTSD card,I would like to know his service record.

  36. Sieg Says:

    This don’t say anything about anyone getting shot in the back.

    Charges filed against man in shooting at Spanaway bar

    Post by Stacey Mulick / The News Tribune on June 7, 2012 at 2:03 pm |

    .
    .
    Pierce County prosecutors have charged a 62-year-old man in connection with a shooting Saturday night at a fundraising event for families of cancer patients.

    Derek Warren Harms, a member of the Ghostriders motorcycle club, told detectives he and other Ghostriders had been invited to meet with members of the Bandidos to “work out prior misunderstandings,” court documents state.

    He arrived at “Metal Fest” at Uncle Sam’s American Bar and Grill, 16003 Pacific Ave. S., with two others. The Bandidos participate in events for an umbrella fundraising group called Bikers Fighting Cancer.

    Harms had a loaded gun with him and several bullets in his pockets. Harms said he was assisting the Ghostrider club president, who is blind, towards the bar when they were contacted by two others.

    The two people demanded Harms and the others “give up their colors or they will ‘shoot them off,’” court documents state.

    Harms said he saw one of the men reach behind his back and thought he was getting a gun.
    Harms fired his gun.

    One man was struck by two bullet fragments in his right arm and shoulder area. He was taken to Tacoma General Hospital for treatment.

    Harms, a convicted felon, was charged Wednesday with first-degree assault and second-degree possession of a firearm. He was ordered held in Pierce County Jail in lieu of $250,000 bail.

    FTF/FTP
    TOSIAR
    5 to 1
    SYLO

  37. Road Whore Says:

    @ Budweiser:

    I’m crushed; just simply crushed. Devastated. Gosh, I really really worried over your criticism, seriously…for all of about 0.0000000000000 nanoseconds.

    Now, flake off, dork! Woof!

    “The more you look, the more you see.”
    FTP DTM FTG FTW STP SYLPH

    Ride FREE!

  38. Bill Says:

    Buttseeker: “How many times have I flat out proven you wrong on here? ”
    Umm, zero? Btw, you drinking early again today? Your latest post is even more retarded than usual.
    “Alright, let me but it this way since everyone had to act cool and put there two cents in…who comebacks from war…<-WTF? Maybe the "but" was simply Freudian, in your case, and perhaps you're not sufficiently literate to differentiate between those three pesky words that sound the same; "there" , "their" "they're", but maybe where you come from nobody else cares either. But "comebacks" from the war is hard to explain. Maybe you're upset? Upset AND drunk? Whatever.
    The Tyson analogy didn't depend upon economic circumstance, genius, it was about something much deeper, or in your case, higher, as in over your…
    And as far as my responses to your moronic posts, I guess it's like finding a fresh pile of dog shit in my yard. Hard to just ignore. Now that's an analogy I think you might get. Nothing heavy, just dog shit, and your posts. Get it now?

  39. Paladin Says:

    Budweiser said:

    “Alright, let me but it this way since everyone had to act cool and put there two cents in. To compare Mike Tyson to a US soldier who comebacks from war and has to deal with…

    I normally don’t criticize a person’s spelling or grammar. We are all prone to make these mistakes, either by hitting the wrong key that’s near or next to the key we truly meant to hit, or confusing homophones (there vs. their), but I would think that someone with a “higher intellect” that so freely calls others idiot, would at least proof read what he/she wrote before posting it.

    It has been said that a person’s true self and desires can leak out through their writings. I think this might be the case, based on the way you used the word “but”. The “P” and the “B” keys are no where near each other.

    And yes Budweiser, long may you ride.

    Paladin

  40. Budweiser Says:

    Grammar and spelling police out in full force….really? That’s all you got? And Bill, if you want me to bring up everytime I’ve sent you back into your hole I will. For instance, remember the Sparks shooting? I asked a question about the charges, you said “it’s over my head” then Rebel comes on as did someone involved and said they weren’t sure about the charges? Then you tell me a female poster was male, remember that? Oh, and just look at the IO post. I asked Rebel about a missing post? You got on your soapbox and made yourself look like a fool. That’s three? How’s my spelling dork? And, yes, I post on my phone. Paladin get over yourself. I have some SOA to watch!!!!

  41. Budweiser Says:

    And, yes Bill, I’ve had about 36 Budweisers so far today. Probably made more working from home on a snow day than you make in the last week.

  42. Bill Says:

    Sorry, Bud, I’m not in any hole, but you’re still an idiot. The Sparks shooting? I don’t recall exactly the issue, but I believe you were asking your usual “missing-the-point” questions, and regardless of the “charges” you mention here now, it seemed clear to me at the time that the article, and the commenters, were all addressing the matter at a level that was, well, “over your head,” but you chose to make it a matter of details, sort of a “can’t see the forest for the trees” thing. The IO thing, regardless of whether Rebel held back a comment, or referenced an offending phone call, the posts already recorded were sufficient to generate his irate response. You though, in your typical incomprehensive fashion, couldn’t get that, and ASSumed there was something left out. Perhaps there was, I don’t know if that was ever in fact established. But my point was that what WAS said, was sufficient, but as usual, it went right over your, well, you know… Austin is FEMALE! I get that now, missed it for a while; it’s not a common female name, screen or otherwise, most posters here are male, and her posts had not seemed obviously female to me. You might have greater, err…”sensitivity” to that sort of thing than me. Austin: no offense, and my apologies for just seeing you as “one of the guys here”. We’ve exchanged pleasant remarks for a while here. NO disrespect intended. As for you, Bud, many here have suggested YOU are a woman, or possibly gay. I don’t think you’re actually female, but you don’t seem all that masculine either. Anyway, your overall inability to understand the topics and remarks on this site make all your posts seem forced, uncomfortable, and “odd” somehow, all that recent bs about Tyson being one of the more laughable. As I recall you were drawn to this site because of your interest in the Iron Order? Or maybe it was SOA, whatever. Your concept of reality seems cartoonish, and adolescent. Maybe all the beers you brag about are watering down what might have once been a normal, albeit fairly low IQ, “intellect”, and you continually drag the issues here into your simpleton’s “world” view, revolving around a particular form of alcohol, and fantasy masculine adventures, like the IO and SOA, and UFC. You’re shallow, Bud, and annoying, particularly when you attempt to school someone such as Road Whore on that excellent post. Overall, you’re pretty “out of it”, and yet stupid enough to think that everyone else is just out of step with you. Get a little more hammered, watch some more biker fantasy, then come back all enlightened and share some more of your wisdom.

  43. Stevo Says:

    There’s a platoon of soldiers on parade in front of their proud families. Little Buddy’s mom points, nudges her husband and says ‘Look Homer dear, everyone is out of step except our little Bud’. It’s always been that way for you, hasn’t it Bud?

  44. Road Whore Says:

    @ Bill…bless your heart! Budweiser, whoever or whatever he/she/it is, seems to have developed an unhealthy obsession with you; watch your six…he/she/it seems like solid stalker material.

    @ Budweiser: what is your obsession with money? You seem to define your self worth by it: “Probably made more working from home on a snow day than you make in the last week.” Yeah…AND??? That and a couple of your dollars will get you a cup of coffee somewhere, but it damn sure won’t buy you any respect here, or anywhere else. Why the snippy, rude, high-and-mighty veneer? You have daddy or mommy issues you haven’t resolved?

    Give respect…get respect.

  45. PigPen Says:

    jesus tapdancing christ. shut the fuck up already.

  46. Phuquehed Says:

    @Bill and Paladin – The fresh pile of dog shit (that’s you, Buttwiper) just doesn’t have a clue when to shut up. Some other dumbfuck at his fag party must have told him he’s witty or something while Buttwiper was blowing him and it gave him incentive to post more of his drivel…that or as they were all laying in a pile naked watching SoA with nuts, dicks and assholes on/near/in his face, he felt more manly enough to spew his normal babbling inanities.

  47. Road Whore Says:

    @ PigPen:

    Who? Everybody? Or just select individuals? :)

    Ride Free

  48. Jim666 Says:

    Howdie all hope ya all had a great turkey day Im home and started reading through the articles posted by Rebel and came upon this one and some comments caught my eye,
    Im first gonna try and over look Budweiser and get to whats real

    Sieg Says:
    December 7th, 2013 at 7:22 pm

    The PTSD, well, that can backfire on you.

    Thats very true as I also tried to pull that card in lock up to maybe get into a little quieter and age friendly cell block ,
    actually where it got me was in a pickle suit in a padded room w/ 4 cameras pointed at me from every direction they could possible point from and to..lol needless to say I never tried to play that card again.

    @ Road Whore that was really well stated even though some cant seem to comprehend what was actually said in the words you wrote,
    Theres always some that get upset at the writer of words they cant understand,and want to lay blame on the person writing the words or the words written rather than living up to the truth and acknowledging the facts that they just dont or cant understand what was written and or ment by those words and or writer Thank you again Roadwhore.

    Red&Gold
    Great to see you around Hope your doing well in your recovery.
    As I really dont have any knowledge of this incident other than what Ive read on whats been written all I can do is speculate on anything I read, but taken from what you said they wernt invited to the event , My .02 is they had no business being there in the 1st place I know for myself if im not invited somewhere I dont go unless well,,,,,,,
    I,ll leave that to the speculation of others .

    I,ll be 50 next month on the 29th and I can also say from my own experiences any amount of meth would more than likely put me in cardiac arrest,and Im in great shape for my young age lol, so maybe it was planted ?????

    “Harms said he was assisting the Ghostrider club president, who is blind, towards the bar”

    I just cant help but wonder and Im meaning no disrespect to anyone
    this is an honest question but,,
    How does anyone make prez.of any club and be blind at the same time ???
    I mean In my club if your blind you cant ride if you cant ride then ?? well you all know where Im going w/ this,,,
    anyway good luck to all involved in this .
    I hate to see ,read and or hear about any confrontations between any members of any clubs, as we all have one giant enemy beast that needs to be brought to it,s knees.

    Respects to most here
    and Merry Christmas to all

    ACAB FTF FTP
    SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL 1% MC

    Jim

  49. PigPen Says:

    @Road Whore
    good point. I was blurting off at budweiser. every time i see a post from this simple minded motherfucker it inspires turrets.
    there is no way this jack off does not have the ass burger syndrome. i have never seen anyone be more of a waste of bandwidth or space than this jerk. i try to ignore it, but the mindless drivel that i have to wade through to actually get to the useful, articulate and beneficial posts are amazing. Every time I am looking for useful information, it’s 20 posts of this shit.

  50. Bill Says:

    Pigpen: I get it, I’m out. There’s. a famous book that warns against arguing with fools.

  51. Roy Says:

    @ Red&Gold and WARider, thanks for the clarity.

  52. Road Whore Says:

    @ PigPen…I hear ya!

    Ride Free

  53. Budweiser Says:

    Is this at 100 yet??? Lol @ Bill and his book. Yeah, it was established that you are an idiot and some bigger moron posted a lot of crazy shit that got deleted. REBEL actually established it within hours. I can’t believe I am going back and forth with you. The “Austin” mix up should show anyone reading this that you are a stalker weirdo. Who just jumps into threads saying “it’s over your head, no female, nanny nanny boo boo”? You are pathetic. Don’t address me again.

  54. Budweiser Says:

    Bill- I came here because of the IO or SOA?? You are a fuckin’ clown….

    Phuquehed- Get over yourself….you write the same shit again and again. I get it. This is your message board. I’m not allowed. SMH

  55. Bill Says:

    Now I really miss Brandon.

  56. Paladin Says:

    Road Whore & PigPen,

    I too am out. IF he chooses, Rebel can converse with Budweiser. At the moment, I can’t think of anyone else that would want to.

    Long May You Ride (to those that deserve to),

    Paladin

  57. Bill Says:

    Bud: why are you lying about coming to this site because of SOA or Iron Order? I don’t recall which it was, but maybe you do. Dig up your first post and prove me wrong, the post where you stated you were searching for (whatever) and found this site. Do it.

  58. Budweiser Says:

    Bill- For you to remember my supposed first post is just bizarre. My first post was back in 2010, I believe. It had nothing to do with SOA. I rarely even post about the show even now. I didn’t even know what the IO was until this year. When Rebel’s site went on hiatus it took me awhile to come back. Two of the main stories I did post on were “The Devil’s Ride” articles and the “Warlock Shooting.” Two of the most popular here. What is wrong with you? I mean, I have fun with this, but I think you may need to take a look at what motivates you to look like an idiot on here. I wish I could find all my individual posts because I’d bet after 10% of them you wrote “this site is over your head.” Like you wanted people to be like “yeah, Bill, you really showed him, you are cool.” Except no one ever wrote that or even thought it. They most likely feel sorry for you like I’m starting to.

  59. Budweiser Says:

    I’m not lying about shit. In the post you’re referring to, I mentioned “Operation Black Rain.” Not SOA, and surely not the IO. So how many more times am I going to prove your stalking ass wrong?

  60. Panhead Says:

    Sound a mite ‘shrill’ there butt-boy.

    Pan

  61. Paladin Says:

    To All,

    Since Rebel hasn’t seen fit to ban him, I think if the regulars (me included) ignore Budweiser, he probably won’t go away, but if he isn’t acknowledged, he’ll be limited to posting to himself, which should limit the little cunt’s ability to disrupt the fourm. Just my $0.02.

    Long May You Ride (to those that deserve to),

    Paladin

  62. rollinnorth Says:

    The down side to blogs is that you can’t mop the floor with trolls, like in a good old-fashioned barroom. “Tis the season…”

    Respect.

  63. Sieg Says:

    My youngest just had a FB showdown with some clown, and I had to explain that the more ya feed a troll, the more it posts, and the longer ya gotta deal with it.

    Now, this site is, far as I could ever tell, by and about motorsickle people. I’ve met a few that post here, and they are straight-up stand-up scooter-trash.

    Those are the posters I’ll respond to. If someone is in the wind, and knows what it’s all about, then they proly have sumpin to say worth my read. If they’re a citizen, and respectful, well hell, maybe someday they’ll get the bug and be knees in the breeze, so I’ll check out what they have to say, too.

    But someone who doesn’t ride, and actually even caps on the life? Fuck that. I won’t waste the time it takes to read their shit, and I damn sure won’t respond to it, any more than I’d talk to a citizen on the street about my ride.

    FTF/FTP
    TOSIAR
    5 to 1
    SYLO

  64. Ronbo Says:

    In our town the local paper comes out every Thursday, The first thing many around here do when reading letters to the editor is to read the writers name first to see if ya care to read or skip.

    Maybe Bud is Brandon’s Dad?

    Be safe
    Ronbo

  65. Panhead Says:

    Ok, (all above) I agree. I tend to like to fuck with people a little before they meet the dark side. It amuses me. So I agree; he’s done here. I was going to suggest “out bad” but that would imply that he was a member of a tribe. He would take some perverse pride in that. No. Shunned?

    Respects,

    Panhead
    STP FTW CDC

  66. Panhead Says:

    @ Rebel

    I should have said “He’s done here as far as I’m concerned.” I know I don’t make the rules here.

    Respects to Reb’s house,

    Panhead

  67. Budweiser Says:

    Sieg- “Facebook Showdown” I’m sure you are enjoying every minute of that! Did you say to keep posting longer and longer and write nonsensical diatribes? Keep dropping the wisdom, buddy.

    Panhead- If 90% of the posters here are patches, then why do you continue to address me?

  68. Budweiser Says:

    Panhead- “Out bad,” really? Why don’t you just tell Rebel you’ll service him?

  69. Budweiser Says:

    Ronbo- Thanks for telling us about your local paper and your reading habits. Yes, I could be Brandon’s father. I started having sex at 13 and he said he was 18 last year.

    FTP FTF FTW

    FTF/FTP
    TOSIAR
    5 TO 1
    SYLO

    NUNYA

  70. Bill Says:

    Pudweiser: Are you wearing one of your SOA cuts this evening? Your last posts seem more badass than usual.

  71. VINCE 1%er Says:

    The Ghost Riders MC has been SHUNNED & Expelled from the COC in Washington State way before this scenario took hold-and the subsequent actions of Members (both mentioned here & Convicted) and others subsequent and after the fact have been the downfall of these guys. They are Not Respected or Wanted in any type of order,arrangement and-or club type atmosphere or Existence. They have been Outcast & Villified from their Higher Peers way before this made the press & papers.
    Twilleager got what He deserved in spite of his prior “Man Up” fullfillment to charges in the past – simply because he acted like a Tweaker Buffoon and was too full of himself & didn’t learn from past mistakes that he’s a Jerk in terms of self control and Temperment.
    Too Many Patch Holders/People saw this coming w/regards to the GRMC and Good Riddance to these assclowns .

  72. Stocker Says:

    Man, I check out the Rebel every now and again, since I am getting older and all grey bearded and shit. All I have to say is… The meth is almost always the downfall of anyone. Second, if someone is running something and calling shots… He should at least maintain control. Second, it seems anyone can earn a patch anymore. I don’t trust 3/4 of these mofos wearing patches anymore. And I sure don’t have any respect for anyone instigating shit on an internet site. Thirdly, I believe and support the patch holder that is always willing to Man The F’ Up. Ain’t many real brothers around anymore.

  73. Budweiser Says:

    Bill- SOA Cut? They don’t sell those so I guess that’s supposed to be a joke? So I proved you wrong again….are you going to stop addressing all my posts? I sure hope so. I just got back from Minnesota today. Bill, if you would have been at this party you would have collapsed from exhaustion. No way you could have kissed that may “bikers” ass.

  74. Rebel Says:

    Dear Budweiser,

    Please tone your shit down.

    Rebe

  75. Ol'LadyRider Says:

    Road Whore: Thank you very much for your beautifully written comment. Only linear thinkers would not see the analogy as creative and profound.

    Budweiser: I saw SOA “cuts” for sale by a vendor at AZ Bike Week last year… and the year before that… AND the year before that. I’ve seen people (God help us) wearing them. So they ARE for sale. Nanny nanny boo boo.

  76. Budweiser Says:

    Ol’LadyRider- I know they are supposedly for sale, and people wear them. I don’t. It sickens me at the thought. Guys like “Bill” somehow make themselves feel better to picture me wearing one. According to one post, or a few, an entire group of guys wore them to a “Conferation of Clubs” meeting. I think they went out for beers afterward.

  77. ol'goat Says:

    @stocker – many young patches don’t have a clue about old school ways. Teaching them old ways falls to the older PH’s, and there’s apparently a disconnect because I have seen the same thing which is most young PH’s are yuppie types consumed only with looking out for number one. Seems “looking out for number one” isn’t exclusive to the sheeple. The world has changed and they are a product of that changing world. Few days ago read about a younger PH of one of the big four slamming a womans head into the floor twice in a crowded restaurant and threatening to kill everyone in the restaurant and according to the media said “I’m a ________, and i’ll fucking kill you all”. Media always misrepresents truth but the young PH apparently lost his cool and showed his ass and said something stupid and made sure eveyone in the restaurant knew he was a _______. Once upon a time you could trust a PH just because he was a PH. Try doing that now.

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