And Now The Vietnam Vets

Mon, Nov 25, 2013

All Posts, News

And Now The Vietnam Vets

There is a completely unpublicized case in Las Vegas that illustrates what is most wrong with the federally financed war on motorcycle clubs. Eight members of the Vietnam Vets/Legacy Vets Motorcycle Club are being forced to prove their clubs are not criminal gangs.

The case results from a fairly straightforward fist fight between two grown men in the parking lot of Mr. D’s Sports Bar and Grill last year in Las Vegas. Mr. D’s is about three miles off the Strip.

The Incident

According to multiple sources, the alleged victim was a member of “another group” who decided to pick on the oldest Vietnam Vet there. After repeatedly describing the veteran as a “motherfucker” and deliberately pushing him the old guy dropped his tormenter. The victim suffered a significant facial cut and bruised ribs and a brief shoving match between the two groups ensued.

The event was investigated by the increasingly draconian and out of control Las Vegas Gang Task Force which chose to view the dustup as territorial beef between rival mafias.

Police have alleged that the victim was assaulted with a weapon.

The indictment against the eight men implies that the old veteran and his friends started it and “did then and there willfully, unlawfully, feloniously, and knowingly” get into a fist fight “for the benefit of, at the direction of, or in affiliation with, a criminal gang, to wit: Vietnam Vets/Legacy Vets Motorcycle Club, which has as one of its common activities, engaging in felonious criminal activities, other that the conduct which constitutes the primary offense.”

The case is still unresolved and ongoing.

Prosecution As Punishment

As is invariably the case with motorcycle club prosecutions, the Vietnam Vets case is not intended to solve or punish a crime or protect the public at large but to use the power of the law to inflict a maximum of inconvenience, embarrassment and pain on the defendants so as to make examples of them to all the other uppity bikers. It is a malicious prosecution that seems to have been brought simply because the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department has decided to go to war with bikers.

According to multiple sources the eight men have run up $140,000 in legal bills so far. The bills represent a de facto punishment. It is all very well for prosecutors and other tools of the prison industrial complex to mouth self serving platitudes about an imaginary “presumption of innocence” but the platitudes do not represent reality and the general public has a right to know how American justice really works.

The danger the case illustrates is that if the police can vilify the Vietnam Vets they can vilify any community group. It just so happens that members of the Vietnam Vets define their identities by wearing patches and riding their motorcycles in packs. It is a very small step from defining them as “felonious criminals” for the way they express their identities to describing political, religious and other social groups the same way.



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74 Comments For This Post

  1. One Eye Says:

    I wonder when the US government is going to infiltrate the NHL; Pittsburgh and Philly will be involved in a fight filled match and they will have to prove they’re hockey teams and not criminal gangs. Although that penguin on Pittsburgh’s jerseys is nefarious looking. Things are entirely out of hand.

  2. Snow Says:

    Fucking over the Vietnam Vets/Legacy Vets is bullshit, those guys walked the walk when our country drafted them and dropped them in a jungle with their hands tied to fight a political war.
    Did the state of Nevada suddenly go insane? Las Vegas was built by connected guys for gambling, whores and all night booze, that’s occasionally going to cause a fight or two.
    I used to enjoy going to Vegas every other year or so but no more, Fuck Em.
    Best of luck wished and much respect sent to the guys caught up in this mess, stand tall and show em what real men look like.
    Support Your Local

  3. amy white Says:

    Our government loves fucking with bikers…. Obama hate veterans. This doesn’t surprise me in any way, shape or form. it pisses me off, but it doesn’t surprise me. Its okay to sell your ass in that county, but don’t wear a vest saying you are a veteran! what a crock of shit.

  4. newjack66 Says:

    Vietnam Veterans MC is getting grief over in Australia as well, in the state of Queensland (Rebel has gone into detail about the draconian laws that were passed).

    There’s so many things I want to say about the treatment of vets in general by governments ….

    Geez that really pisses me off!

  5. jj solari Says:

    policemen, sheriffs, fbi agents, US marshals and cia agents and department of fagland security personnel and other government agencies all wear identifying patches and badges and pieces of clothing to identify themselves as criminal enterprises but i never see them arresting each other. it must be that lasting bond of homosexuality that they all share and their common affinity for same-sex everything that keeps them from stepping on each others toes.

  6. Phuquehed Says:

    I’ve been trying for a few years to join up with the VNV/LV, but the local chapter just isn’t active at all. When it comes time for the summer VNV/LV rally in Mississippi maybe 4 from the local show up.

    Fuck it…I’ll talk with whoever I need to next summer and get in…maybe I’ll be able to get things going again, like even getting their website back up and running since they let it just disappear after years of no updatineg it or anything. It really saddened me.

    And now, if I can get in with them, I can tell the pigs to fuck off especially since being a fucking cripple how the fuck can I be some part of a ‘criminal enterprise’ with only my bike as the only transportation I own and barely enough money per month to ride it thrice.

    We need a buttload more Bowtie’s!

    Fuck you pigs for messing with that which was nothing but a fist fight.

    Fuck you asshole who kept fucking with the VNV member and then being a pussy when you got your ass handed to you and crying like a bitch to the pigs!

    Bomb Allah the pig fucker and his 72 boy virgins!

    (had to give the faggot alphabet soup pussies something to jerk-off to, to give them hope for the half a second it took to read that word and then realize they can do nothing about it! LMAO@ feebs and pigs everywhere!)

  7. DesertH-D Says:

    Snow – Yes, the state of Nevada did go insane! But it wasn’t sudden, it’s been coming on for years… Those of us in the north, or really just “other than Clark County”, are really sick of it. Vegas is now basically L.A. East, with pretty much the same dominant politics. Hell, how many times has that weasel Reid been elected now?? ALL by Clark County…

    I know some of the men involved in this personally. They are good men, stand up men, and they meet the criteria of “felonious criminal gangster” about as much as Mickey Mouse. Yeah, they’ve all been in combat, and they ain’t gonna take any shit from a loud mouth in a bar… But the way I was brought up, that’s something to be honored, not punished. It’s a crying shame that our nation has fallen to such a state where these men are charged with anything.

  8. jason Says:

    “Fuck you asshole who kept fucking with the VNV member and then being a pussy when you got your ass handed to you and crying like a bitch to the pigs!”

    to keep the air clear
    I doubt the “other group” talked to the cops, when guys get sent to the hospital charges get pressed anyway.


  9. YYZ Skinhead Says:

    I guess hippies shitting on our Veterans and Reagan dumping them on the streets waasn’t enough. I have never encountered a member of the VNVMC who was any kind of “criminal”. OTOH the way the government has abandoned our Veterans is definitely criminal.

    YYZ Skinhead

  10. RVN69 Says:

    Well Fuck Me, I always wondered how long it would take for one of those gang task forces to fuck with the Red and Black.

    Jason, since they didn’t mention it I doubt that the other group was a M/C, or at least a real one, so I wouldn’t be so sure they didn’t talk to the pigs.

    Phuquehed, Good luck, if you have access, check out Facebook, lot’s of Red&Black on there maybe you can contact someone from that area.

    “I came into this world kicking, screaming and covered in someone else’s blood, I am prepared to leave it the same way.”

  11. Alex900 Says:

    VNV now a “criminal org”??

    These so called “public servants” are going to wake up a sleeping mother fucking giant…AMERICANS!
    AMERICANS who are tired of these bullshit laws!
    AMERICANS who in some cases… “voluntarily” enlisted to serve under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ)-Hey Las Vegas?…in case you don’t know what that means you “Give Up” your “Constitutiional” Rights to live under another set of laws!

    Since when and where in this fucking world does having a fist fight constitute being a “criminal” organization?

    I tell ya…its only a matter of time before all local, state and federal Police are wearing the same color uniform-then..the mother fucking goose-stepping…brown shirts with arm bands will be knocking on doors!
    Shit has got to stop! This isn’t the country I fought for!

    Respect to all-Let’s take care of each other!

  12. Phuquehed Says:

    @jason – Where does it say anyone went to a hospital? All I see is that the two went head-on, the aggressor lost and then the rest of the losers group started with the rest of the VNV group and this happened… “The indictment against the eight men implies that the old veteran and his friends started it…”

    As far as I read it, the losers buddies didn’t like that he got his ass handed to him and figured they’d try to do what he couldn’t, then told the pigs that the whole VNV group “started it” like a bunch of whiny pussies in a kindergarten schoolyard. Who the fuck goes to a hospital for a cut or two from a fist fight? A cunt, that’s who. And who told the pigs that there had to have been a weapon? The loser group, that’s who! They’re pussies, one and all.

    I knocked a fucker out years ago at a bud’s party (his dad-in-law who he hated anyway). The pigs showed up after I was gone and nothing was said about me, but the fucker later told people I’d hit him with a crescent wrench…I saw him a few weeks later and got to let him know what a lying coward I thought he was, but he at least didn’t rat me out to the pigs for losing a fight.

  13. Phuquehed Says:

    @RVN69 – Thanks for reminding me! I don’t always go on FB, so it goes unused for days and weeks at a time sometimes, heh.

  14. BB Says:

    Looks like “down under” is coming our way quicker than we might think:

    When our government, at this time, decides it’s time to fuck with veterans clubs, we are all lost. They’ve already hit Bikers for Christ, that pernicious bunch I’d thugs known by the acronym “H.O.G” can’t be far behind. Everyone who enjoys our lifestyle (to a greater or lesser degree) from 1%er to RC to independant, needs to stand up and take note. This is an attack on our basic freedoms, it’s about control. Either they control us (the people), or we control them (the government).

    I’m fairly sure that I know which side the framer’s of the constitution would’ve come down on. We’re a long way from the late 18th century though, and we no longer live in a society that recognizes it’s own basic freedoms as a nation. We bend our knee to those in power, see feudalism.

    It’s high time we all took a close look at what’s been happening around here for the last 70 or so years. Yeah, lots of bad shit happened in the past, much with official impunity (lynchings, discrimination, oppression etc.) But now we all get to feel the weight of “official” disapproval, and it is crushing. Everyone, no just folks who ride motorcycles and may or may not associate with other like minded folks in a voluntary association built on affinity.

    We all need to stand up.



    (Yet another “short post” that got out of hand!)

  15. Rahlow Says:

    More evidence of the Pussification of America.
    Run yer pie hole.
    Get yer ass handed to ya.
    Call the Gestapo.

  16. Paladin Says:

    When traveling North on I-15, I gas up in Baker, CA, and then again in N. Las Vegas. Then, I’m out of NV. I’ll leave as little money as possible in places I’m not welcome. If I could make Littlefield, AZ, without stopping for gas, I wouldn’t even stop in NV.

    Long May You Ride (to those that deserve to),


  17. Jason Says:

    I apologize, I need to take back everything I have said tonight, its all false, Rebel please delete it.

  18. Wretched Man Says:

    @ One Eye
    “November 25th, 2013 at 2:29 pm
    I wonder when the US government is going to infiltrate the NHL; Pittsburgh and Philly will be involved in a fight filled match and they will have to prove they’re hockey teams and not criminal gangs…”

    My .02 is that the government receives taxes from every facet of that “sport”, they are not going to jeopardize their “cash cow”.
    On the other side of it, OMC’s, unlike sheeple, decide for themselves where & how their finances get used, hence their “popularity” (sic) with your federal government…

    Like I said just my .02 (coming from another continent I do realize there is much more at play than I understand, but it seems the government’s love for the “almighty dollar” has a lot to with your problems over there.)


  19. jj solari Says:

    american soldiers and american police officers are – of course – natural enemies. american soldiers protect american citizens by killing the citizens of other countries. american cops arrest american citizens and often shoot them to death, usually after provoking a fight with them. american cops would shit their pants if they had to actually do combat with the soldiers of other countries. how it came to be believed by american citizens that american soldiers and american police both serve the interests of the american citizen, when an american cop’s only job is to endanger and destroy american citizens, is a fine example of most americans’ ability to be as dense as teak and as stupid as burlap. american cops do not engage illegal aliens – who are citizens of other countries – because they would find such behavior to be perverse. So that is why they dont. american soldiers should be dealing with illegals by hunting them down and either killing them or putting them into prison camps, since they are foreigners, invaders, and potential enemies. however it appears that they themselves are the hunted, by, of all things, american policemen. once you start down the road of head-up-the-assville it always just gets more and more fucked up as time goes on. never more and more better.

  20. Ol'LadyRider Says:

    It doesn’t seem so long ago that people were willing and able (without outside interference) to TCB between themselves. Men could disagree and even come to blows and go on their merry ways once the dispute was settled in that honorable fashion. Parents could communicate with each other about their respective children without school mediation or lawyers. Kids could have a recess or after school scuffle, or even get caught doing a “beer run” without ending up in Juvie.

    Much respect to the VNV/LV. I’d like to say I never thought this craziness would go THAT far, but I can’t say that. I can say that Las Vegas Metro is out of control. And I can say that that oft-repeated sentiment appears more true every day: TOSIAR.

  21. Road Whore Says:

    I confess guys…I had to call the cops over a gang dustup too.

    Those damn GSoA patch holding Club Members accosted me in the parking lot of a local grocery store. Their leader was quite bold and aggressive. I tried not to make eye contact or do anything that would provoke a response, but she was on me before I knew it, staring me hard in the eye, her colors bright and terrifying. She had many patches on her cut and I just knew that some of them had to be for deeds so dastardly that my mind would fry if I learned of their depravity. “Buy these cookies, bitch!” she screamed at me in a girly voice so terrifying that I whimpered aloud, desperately fishing for my cell phone to call 911. At least, that’s how I remembered it when I recounted the details for the SWAT team that showed up to save me.

    As they led the gang away in handcuffs I stood nearby giving my statement. The leader glared at me as they hauled her off and mouthed, “This ain’t over.”

    At this point in time I’m so terrified by the whole affair that I’m thinking of entering Wit Sec. Or maybe even moving to Vegas. I hear they keep those Girl Scouts under control there.

    Ride Free

  22. scraphound Says:

    On Long Island and the surrounding Counties of NYC, there exists numerous clubs that are community driven clubs, AMA clubs, Electrician union and Steel workers clubs, The Fire Riders who are firemen, LE clubs, even the Knights of Columbus has a club. All these clubs will be under the microscope as this police state gets bigger and stronger.

  23. Cap'n Bill Says:

    Keep up the good work, Rebel! I love the way you word the news. It’s all too obvious that you care about the task at hand.

  24. Pig Says:

    I think a lot of the trouble of this kind that we see can be directly attributed to the “nanny state”. Law Enforcement is a government program that they were force feeding us long before health care. Cops are supposed to be there to “serve and protect” the public but they can’t stand anyone who can take care of their own business and doesn’t need or want their service or protection. Enter motorcycle clubs and authentic bikers in general. The government knows that it can’t control a group that doesn’t need them. I honestly believe that’s why they come down so hard on clubs. The government feels that they represent a genuine threat to the noose they are slowly tightening around the liberties of this nation.

  25. BMW Says:

    I’ve met a lot of VNVMC members and people from other veterans MCs, and I’ve never seen anyone with a military MC patch cause any sort of problem, at least since 1969 or so. WTF? Doesn’t anyone on Nevada Law Enforcement have ANY sense?

  26. Hobit Says:

    As a member of another 3PP Veteran’s MC, much respect and good fortune to VNV/LV in their struggles with the pigs. We all bled the same blood in the mud serving our country and again, the country is turning on it’s own. I know there are many vets out there who ride in other clubs and associations; they are after all of us. Keep your head up and watch your six. Regardless of our differences, we are all more alike than the facists who pursue us. This is for ALL club members, vet or not. The war for freedom is on.


  27. WARTHOG Says:

    I remember going to a White Sox night game sometime around 1979. We were in the parking lot waiting in line to get out. The car ahead of us wouldn’t let the car from the isle to his right into the line of traffic we were in. The two male drivers got out of their respective cars and started throwing punches at each other. Then one of the guys grabs the other and starts slamming his head against the hood of his car. There was a cop 10 feet away directing traffic and watching the fight. Didn’t do shit to stop it. When the cars started moving in front of the melee, the two guys jumped back in their vehicles and it was over. Those were the days my friends.




  28. Mike 184 Says:

    Crock of shit…. Damn these guys must be bored. What no hookers OD’ing on heroine and legit crooks to chase in Vegas? Someone’s got a real hard on for bike clubs in Vegas. Watch your ass up there Gentlemen.

  29. Sieg Says:

    WARTHOG…you could still do that there. Bridgeport, home sweet home!

    5 TO 1

  30. EazyGNTN Says:

    Phuquehed, Im in the VNVLV MC Mississipi. We are very active here. A lot more than 4 of us at our freedom rally last summer. What part of the state are you in? North, South or Central?


  31. Joe Says:

    Phuquehed. Freedom ralley in Waterford, north of Tupelo, is where you can see whats up. Mississippi is a very active state. 12th annual is coming in June you will not be sorry. Hard to imagine you can’t find a contact. Best luck to you.

  32. YYZ Skinhead Says:

    Welcome back, RVN69. Check my latest post in the Saloon.

    YYZ Skinhead

  33. Uesque Says:

    Damn, and I’ve worn my Penguins jersey on the FXR. I had better be careful.

  34. EazyGNTN Says:

    Phuquehed, I’m in Mississippi and the VNVLV MC is active here. A lot more than just 4 at the freedom rally. What part of the state are you in ? North, south or central?


  35. PigPen Says:

    shit, I wonder when that motorcycle gang iron order will be under the microscope?

  36. G Man Says:

    VNV M.C has been listed as “Security threat group” in the Massachusetts Dept of Corrections for years. What a fuckin shame. No justification at all for it. I wear a 3 piece patch(Veteran club) and was stopped last year so my helmet could be checked to see if was D.O.T approved. Are you fucking kidding me??? As the Trooper exited his car he stopped and took a picture of my cut before approaching me. I asked him why and what was that about. He said, “I’m just doing my job. Lying fuck. Never asked for my licence, or registration, just what kind of helmet I was wearing. Benn riding scoots over 40 yrs and have never been pulled over for that reason.No matter how “good” we are, we will always just be scumbags to the citizen, and the cops.

  37. One Eye Says:

    @Wretched Man: That was just my lame ass attempt at being facetious. The fact that veterans experience this sort of aggro and the thought that this was all ignited over a fist fight makes me respond in a manner that is as ridiculous as the surrounding circumstances.

    @ Uessque: I’ll bet nobody tailgated you that day.

  38. Budweiser Says:

    So is “Jason” a member of the club, and why does he want his posts deleted?

  39. YYZ Skinhead Says:

    RVN69, that post I made in the Saloon wasn’t showing, so I might as well post it here.

    Of course it applies to all Veterans (at least American ones). The government attacking a men’s club for men who defended our nation is sacrilege.

    YYZ Skinhead

  40. Rebel Says:

    Dear Budweiser,

    Please shut the fuck up. Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.


  41. Phuquehed Says:

    @EazyGNTN & Joe – I did it again and didn’t get my message across the way it seems to in my head. I meant that only about 4 from the local (county I’m in) TN chapter show up, one year there was 6 or 7 if I remember right, and I go to the Freedom Rally in Oxford, MS. It’s about a 120 mile ride south for me, but been to it three or four times now and I always have a blast. I have the speech that BB gives after he puts on the ‘show’, on my website. He’s one of the few from this area that shows up, but he pretty much has to if the ‘show’ is gonna get done, heh, and if anyone wants any music.

    I’ll talk to the head man of the local chapter next year and see what happens.

    I do gotta say though, that one of the MS chapters that was there last year said they’d prospect me, but I had to decline simply because of the distance. (If you also were there, you might remember me…I’m the big guy that walks with a slight limp and bent over a bit. The PH in the wheelchair gets around better than I do…seriously! heh heh)

  42. Flip Says:

    @EastGNTN Hey there my Brother from another mother. LLRB GFVD/GNTN

  43. 100%erGNTN Says:

    This whole thing makes me sick about the Government in the country doing what they are doing. I think that it is about time that ALL bikers, from the new kid on the street to the oldest person on 2 or 3 wheels now a days, need to get to gether and stand up for what we beleive in. There is a saying and I do believe that the State of Virginia even has it on their state seal…..”Sic Semper Tyrannis” Sic semper tyrannis is a Latin phrase meaning “thus, always, to tyrants.” The full quotation, Sic semper evello mortem tyrannis, or “death to tyrants” or “down with the tyrant. …

  44. Icebreaker Says:

    Great article… The reason that this has been unpublicized is that, if the public knew, they may start to question the jack booted thugs of the “protect and serve” crew… and they don’t want that now, do they?

    Amen to the comment to the ass-hat. took the words out of my mouth…

    All the best to my Brothers in Las Vegas ..


  45. WARTHOG Says:


    If I may, I speak in a way Bud understands.


    Fuck off and die, asshole.

    Respects, Rebel.



  46. Sieg Says:

    Ah, WARTHOG, you silver-tongued devil you!

    5 to 1

  47. Road Whore Says:

    @ WARTHOG re: Budweiser…

    or…STFU, eat shit, fuck off, and die motherfucker! ROFL


    Ride Free

  48. CN Says:

    1. When last we heard Budweiser snort didn’t he/she say they were not appreciated here & wouldn’t be back or was that just wishful thinking on my part. Bud- You’re still unappreciated, so….

    I’m a Vietnam Era Vet. Never was in country but was in at the very tail end. Y’all went through Hell for the rest of us & I want you to know that you are appreciated, respected & loved. If there’s a legal defense fund please let me know (Rebel has my email Addy).

    Never been to Vegas. No plans to ever go there. If Bikers and Vetrans boycotted it and publicized it I wonder what good it might do? Just a thought.

  49. Panhead Says:

    @ officer Budweiser,

    Why do you need to know? NUNYA.


  50. Sieg Says:

    Jason, you’ve showed class, and a large pair. I hope your Brothers appreciate you.

    All respect.


    5 to 1

  51. Metal Dave Says:


  52. Opie Says:

    To everyone that has posted thank you for your kind comments regarding our situation in Vegas. We are going to fight this battle with everything we have because we feel if they can convict us of being a criminal gang who knows who they will go after next. Many people have asked about a legal defense fund and yes we have started one and I have just created a website to also help. Any amount that is donated I assure you 100% will go to fighting these bastards in Las Vegas. The site is Once again thank you for all your love and support in this trying time.


    Sin City 8

  53. Tooj Says:

    I do not question Budweiser’s need to question shit. I already have formed an opinion and expect nothing less than some juvenile shit stirring.

    Does anyone else expect less? (You fuckers and your comments make me nearly spit out my Jameson which we ALL know is sacrilege.)

    Hang tough out there in the desert. One almost wonders if certain professions became much more dangerous to perform if they would remain attractive? I often wonder shit, though.

  54. Tooj Says:

    Please don’t misinterpret as danger takes many forms: economic, personal, emotional, etc.

    I’d expect some damn asshole to assume I meant something worse. Bikers are a generally peace loving lot and do not appreciate being poked for such.

    I’m still wondering about the out of country uniforms in Fort Carson, CO and Alaska that are being seen…


    this is not an isolated issue, …. Happens to most all MC’s that they deem a threat to the EMPIRE, when In FACT Law Enforcement perpetrate moor DOCUMENTED Crimes against individuals and the people as whole more so that all MC’s combined!….FTP!!this is a Fact unless the alleged victim filed a complaint..there is no crime, with out the element of “Corpus Delicti” No victim no crime! and if the DA say’s were picking it up he is operating under fraud as the State cannot be a victim! trhey Know this and count on it that you dont! and with the help of their (BAR card/same club attorney’s fail to acknowledge this)so when this is the case and if this is the case then with The VVMC they should file a counter claim in Federal Court against the Las Vegas PD, the city, the state Highway Patrol and the State and any other agencies involved in the violation of their “indorporated rights as well as personal rights and any theft(confiscation of Club/corporate property) for violations under USC title 24,Sec.241,242…if the State makes a Claim the must prove the Claim but first they must show that they even have jurisdiction and w/o a victim there is NO Crime!!..if the pussy did call the cops he and his club should pay a price for that and I would leave it up to the rest of the REAL MC community to decide how that payment is extracted! just my 2 cents..we they push..PUSH BACK…

  56. Snow Says:

    Off subject but not sure where else to post where you may see it.
    If I may inquire as to your brother that got into problems with the Laffing Dildos, what became of all that ?
    Support Your Local

  57. CN Says:

    Update: It was really easy to contribute to the defense fund by going to . A little good Karma goes a long way and who among us can’t use a little of that? Anyway, it’s easy so if you’re considering it, I thought you’d want to know. Be safe out there regardless.

  58. Keep America Free Says:

    The jack booted thug mentality extends well beyond federal agencies who list a number Christian and Veteran Clubs as “OMG”. The same old crap about the badges needing job security applies here. They go after the folks without the monetary means to properly fight their legal battle and defend their Constitutional Rights paid for in blood. Now they must legally defend those SAME Rights they bled for that we may REMAIN free Americans?

    I fear for the future of my Nation I so proudly served. Then again, American veterans and active military members are not to be trifled with. A local government law enforcement and DA wants to call a veteran’s MC a criminal organization when many of those members are active duty with security clearances up to and including top secret?

    Methinks the DA has no political future.

    Be strong, Brothers.
    100% 22

  59. Indiana Biff Says:

    why member jason take back what he said/ VNV MC is near my old home. good guys.

  60. Jason Says:

    What I said was misleading, inaccurate, and full of opinions that should not reflect on my club. Thats why its gone, simple as that.

  61. Sieg Says:

    Jason, no need to explain.

    For anyone who understands, your reason was obvious. For anyone who doesn’t understand, you could never explain it.

    Again, you showed more class than most.

    5 to 1

  62. jcfromnj Says:

    Not for nothing, but I’m going to weigh in on this story, as it touches a nerve. I know a lot of Veterans in some of the local clubs in S.Jersey, even going back to my Viet Nam days. It’s the fucking ingratitude from the newbe LEO’s that don’t have a clue as to what it takes to really stand your ground and maybe go down for some injustice, real or imagined.
    I don’t know if you covered the Tyler and Peeps case in upstate New York, but it’s an example of what you might have to run up against if you stand your ground or take a hard line.

  63. PlumberVNVLVMCDE Says:

    i cant stand swine

  64. BB Says:

    I’ll post it here too, something everyone ought to consider:

    Everyone should check out the book “Black Thursday” by Dave Devereaux The book chronicles the successful effort to get an anti-motorcyclist profiling bill through the Washington State Legislature. It is well written, erudite and straight forward. It also contains a compendium of essays detailing contemporary efforts to confront the currently rampant discrimination against motorcycle clubs. It is a great example of the pioneering work being done by club members, for club members and for all of us who live and love the lifestyle.

    The link is here:



  65. Trip Says:

    This has got to be one of the most fucked up things I’ve heard in a while. Everyone of the VNV’s I’ve ever met have been good guys, and should be never questioned as to wether or not they are a criminal organization WTF is wrong with this country? I have fought and bled for this goddamn country only to be treated like shit. I say it’s about time for a revolution…….

    @PigPen fuck those pussy ass fuckers. There were about 30 of them at a bar at biketoberfest in Daytona this year, that decided to pay off one of the gate keepers to let them in with their cuts on, then when other security guards noticed it and tried to usher them out of the establishment, that clearly had posted signs of don’t wear your cuts here. They showed their asses and surrounded some of the staff until the cops showed up! But I’m sure no one heard about that either!!!!!

    Respects to everyone here,


  66. DesertH-D Says:

    Just keeping this thread alive… This MUST be one of the top issues out there folks. If the soup can fuck over a VETERAN’S club in this manner, they can surely fuck over any of us.
    Every little bit helps…

    Opie – Best of luck to you and your crew.

  67. RVN69 Says:

    I’m not shilling for the VNVLV M/C, but these guys are gonna need some help defending themselves against this bullshit. As part of defending the Patch or this way of life please head over to and give a little. If you only can afford 5 bucks anything will help, if you can’t give, spread the word, maybe your friends or chapter can.


    YYZ, loved the runes message!!!

    “I came into this world kicking screaming and covered in someone else’s blood, I am prepared to leave it the same way.”

  68. Phuquehed Says:

    I don’t own no credit cards, but I’m willing to kick in $5 if someone knows another way (I know that’s a pretty shameful amount, but it’s what I can do and these guys deserve it).

  69. JohnnyD Says:

    A long time ago I learned a phrase from a lawyer, “Qui Buono”. It means who profits. When we look to change the way LE comes at MCs we started to look at why. It turns out that the “Gang” certification for officers leads to higher pay. An increase in hourly pay also leads to a higher rate for overtime. When these actions are taken they usually require massive amounts of overtime for involved officers. We had a video of two VNV / LV being pulled over by GIITEM in Mesa, AZ. (Gang Immigration Intelligence Team Enforcement Mission)
    At one point there were 14 officers two of whom had full auto rifles. This went on for more than forty minutes during a night that had several dozen officers and two mobile command centers set up for a Halloween party. We showed the video to a state senator and at the end her first question was “how much did that cost?”. When we look at what they are doing we have to consider that their first priority is to increase their pay, second is to pad their retirement. We found out that the way AZ LE pension is determined is that the best three of their last five years on duty determine their annual pension. Real crime fighting is boring as hell. Investigating actual criminal activity involves a lot of legwork, reading, interviewing witnesses, and so much other boring stuff. Creating a straw man to protect the townspeople from is exciting. Fucking with big bad bikers and knowing you have the complete authority to do whatever you want is a rush. We wear big targets, most of us can be heard from a mile away. They cannot get any actual crime solutions so thay have to make it up. It is basically that they can have fun, add an inch to their dicks at our expense, and get paid a lot more money while doing it. Our problem is that when we go to the legislature to get real reform, LE has a key to the back door, and our people generally fail to show up believing it is a conspiracy that they are doomed to suffer from. David Devereaux and his guys made a change in Washington State. We are going at it again here in Arizona. We are educating our legislators, and our members at the same time. It is a fight we can win.
    JJ Solari,
    A large number of LE are former military. SWAT was formed under direction of Vietnam Vets in the LAPD who decided that military tactics would benefit their raids in the “drug war”. My nephew,USMC, was trying to join a CO sheriff’s force. He has been reading my FB posts and has had a change of heart. A lot of the guys from his unit were joining LEAs, they think it is a good job. Just sayin…

  70. Austin Says:

    @JohnnyD Bingo. Follow the money.

  71. graham Says:

    respect to you guys from new Zealand, I personally didn’t go to Vietnam ( too young ) but a lot of n.z. lads were there, from my understanding it was a war that was hamstrung by beurocracy and stupidity by those in government, good luck in all your endeavours,
    kia kaha !! ( be strong go hard )

  72. The Truth Says:

    I Can assure you the VNV man had nothing to do with it.
    I can bet on it the Legacy’s had everything to do with it.
    Everywhere they go,you can count on a fight.Young’ins that need to grow-up.

  73. T.N.T. Says:


  74. REAL LVMC Says:

    The Truth, how can you assure anything? Where you there? Are you a member of VNVLV MC? I bet you are not because if you were you would know better. Just go ride your bike (if you have one) and have fun, just dont flap your lips you know nothing about.

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