And Now The Vietnam Vets

November 25, 2013

All Posts, News

There is a completely unpublicized case in Las Vegas that illustrates what is most wrong with the federally financed war on motorcycle clubs. Eight members of the Vietnam Vets/Legacy Vets Motorcycle Club are being forced to prove their clubs are not criminal gangs.

The case results from a fairly straightforward fist fight between two grown men in the parking lot of Mr. D’s Sports Bar and Grill last year in Las Vegas. Mr. D’s is about three miles off the Strip.

The Incident

According to multiple sources, the alleged victim was a member of “another group” who decided to pick on the oldest Vietnam Vet there. After repeatedly describing the veteran as a “motherfucker” and deliberately pushing him the old guy dropped his tormenter. The victim suffered a significant facial cut and bruised ribs and a brief shoving match between the two groups ensued.

The event was investigated by the increasingly draconian and out of control Las Vegas Gang Task Force which chose to view the dustup as territorial beef between rival mafias.

Police have alleged that the victim was assaulted with a weapon.

The indictment against the eight men implies that the old veteran and his friends started it and “did then and there willfully, unlawfully, feloniously, and knowingly” get into a fist fight “for the benefit of, at the direction of, or in affiliation with, a criminal gang, to wit: Vietnam Vets/Legacy Vets Motorcycle Club, which has as one of its common activities, engaging in felonious criminal activities, other that the conduct which constitutes the primary offense.”

The case is still unresolved and ongoing.

Prosecution As Punishment

As is invariably the case with motorcycle club prosecutions, the Vietnam Vets case is not intended to solve or punish a crime or protect the public at large but to use the power of the law to inflict a maximum of inconvenience, embarrassment and pain on the defendants so as to make examples of them to all the other uppity bikers. It is a malicious prosecution that seems to have been brought simply because the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department has decided to go to war with bikers.

According to multiple sources the eight men have run up $140,000 in legal bills so far. The bills represent a de facto punishment. It is all very well for prosecutors and other tools of the prison industrial complex to mouth self serving platitudes about an imaginary “presumption of innocence” but the platitudes do not represent reality and the general public has a right to know how American justice really works.

The danger the case illustrates is that if the police can vilify the Vietnam Vets they can vilify any community group. It just so happens that members of the Vietnam Vets define their identities by wearing patches and riding their motorcycles in packs. It is a very small step from defining them as “felonious criminals” for the way they express their identities to describing political, religious and other social groups the same way.



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92 Responses to “And Now The Vietnam Vets”

  1. Metal Dave Says:


  2. Opie Says:

    To everyone that has posted thank you for your kind comments regarding our situation in Vegas. We are going to fight this battle with everything we have because we feel if they can convict us of being a criminal gang who knows who they will go after next. Many people have asked about a legal defense fund and yes we have started one and I have just created a website to also help. Any amount that is donated I assure you 100% will go to fighting these bastards in Las Vegas. The site is Once again thank you for all your love and support in this trying time.


    Sin City 8

  3. Tooj Says:

    I do not question Budweiser’s need to question shit. I already have formed an opinion and expect nothing less than some juvenile shit stirring.

    Does anyone else expect less? (You fuckers and your comments make me nearly spit out my Jameson which we ALL know is sacrilege.)

    Hang tough out there in the desert. One almost wonders if certain professions became much more dangerous to perform if they would remain attractive? I often wonder shit, though.

  4. Tooj Says:

    Please don’t misinterpret as danger takes many forms: economic, personal, emotional, etc.

    I’d expect some damn asshole to assume I meant something worse. Bikers are a generally peace loving lot and do not appreciate being poked for such.

    I’m still wondering about the out of country uniforms in Fort Carson, CO and Alaska that are being seen…


    this is not an isolated issue, …. Happens to most all MC’s that they deem a threat to the EMPIRE, when In FACT Law Enforcement perpetrate moor DOCUMENTED Crimes against individuals and the people as whole more so that all MC’s combined!….FTP!!this is a Fact unless the alleged victim filed a complaint..there is no crime, with out the element of “Corpus Delicti” No victim no crime! and if the DA say’s were picking it up he is operating under fraud as the State cannot be a victim! trhey Know this and count on it that you dont! and with the help of their (BAR card/same club attorney’s fail to acknowledge this)so when this is the case and if this is the case then with The VVMC they should file a counter claim in Federal Court against the Las Vegas PD, the city, the state Highway Patrol and the State and any other agencies involved in the violation of their “indorporated rights as well as personal rights and any theft(confiscation of Club/corporate property) for violations under USC title 24,Sec.241,242…if the State makes a Claim the must prove the Claim but first they must show that they even have jurisdiction and w/o a victim there is NO Crime!!..if the pussy did call the cops he and his club should pay a price for that and I would leave it up to the rest of the REAL MC community to decide how that payment is extracted! just my 2 cents..we they push..PUSH BACK…

  6. Snow Says:

    Off subject but not sure where else to post where you may see it.
    If I may inquire as to your brother that got into problems with the Laffing Dildos, what became of all that ?
    Support Your Local

  7. CN Says:

    Update: It was really easy to contribute to the defense fund by going to . A little good Karma goes a long way and who among us can’t use a little of that? Anyway, it’s easy so if you’re considering it, I thought you’d want to know. Be safe out there regardless.

  8. Keep America Free Says:

    The jack booted thug mentality extends well beyond federal agencies who list a number Christian and Veteran Clubs as “OMG”. The same old crap about the badges needing job security applies here. They go after the folks without the monetary means to properly fight their legal battle and defend their Constitutional Rights paid for in blood. Now they must legally defend those SAME Rights they bled for that we may REMAIN free Americans?

    I fear for the future of my Nation I so proudly served. Then again, American veterans and active military members are not to be trifled with. A local government law enforcement and DA wants to call a veteran’s MC a criminal organization when many of those members are active duty with security clearances up to and including top secret?

    Methinks the DA has no political future.

    Be strong, Brothers.
    100% 22

  9. Indiana Biff Says:

    why member jason take back what he said/ VNV MC is near my old home. good guys.

  10. Jason Says:

    What I said was misleading, inaccurate, and full of opinions that should not reflect on my club. Thats why its gone, simple as that.

  11. Sieg Says:

    Jason, no need to explain.

    For anyone who understands, your reason was obvious. For anyone who doesn’t understand, you could never explain it.

    Again, you showed more class than most.

    5 to 1

  12. jcfromnj Says:

    Not for nothing, but I’m going to weigh in on this story, as it touches a nerve. I know a lot of Veterans in some of the local clubs in S.Jersey, even going back to my Viet Nam days. It’s the fucking ingratitude from the newbe LEO’s that don’t have a clue as to what it takes to really stand your ground and maybe go down for some injustice, real or imagined.
    I don’t know if you covered the Tyler and Peeps case in upstate New York, but it’s an example of what you might have to run up against if you stand your ground or take a hard line.

  13. PlumberVNVLVMCDE Says:

    i cant stand swine

  14. Trip Says:

    This has got to be one of the most fucked up things I’ve heard in a while. Everyone of the VNV’s I’ve ever met have been good guys, and should be never questioned as to wether or not they are a criminal organization WTF is wrong with this country? I have fought and bled for this goddamn country only to be treated like shit. I say it’s about time for a revolution…….

    @PigPen fuck those pussy ass fuckers. There were about 30 of them at a bar at biketoberfest in Daytona this year, that decided to pay off one of the gate keepers to let them in with their cuts on, then when other security guards noticed it and tried to usher them out of the establishment, that clearly had posted signs of don’t wear your cuts here. They showed their asses and surrounded some of the staff until the cops showed up! But I’m sure no one heard about that either!!!!!

    Respects to everyone here,


  15. DesertH-D Says:

    Just keeping this thread alive… This MUST be one of the top issues out there folks. If the soup can fuck over a VETERAN’S club in this manner, they can surely fuck over any of us.
    Every little bit helps…

    Opie – Best of luck to you and your crew.

  16. RVN69 Says:

    I’m not shilling for the VNVLV M/C, but these guys are gonna need some help defending themselves against this bullshit. As part of defending the Patch or this way of life please head over to and give a little. If you only can afford 5 bucks anything will help, if you can’t give, spread the word, maybe your friends or chapter can.


    YYZ, loved the runes message!!!

    “I came into this world kicking screaming and covered in someone else’s blood, I am prepared to leave it the same way.”

  17. Phuquehed Says:

    I don’t own no credit cards, but I’m willing to kick in $5 if someone knows another way (I know that’s a pretty shameful amount, but it’s what I can do and these guys deserve it).

  18. Austin Says:

    @JohnnyD Bingo. Follow the money.

  19. graham Says:

    respect to you guys from new Zealand, I personally didn’t go to Vietnam ( too young ) but a lot of n.z. lads were there, from my understanding it was a war that was hamstrung by beurocracy and stupidity by those in government, good luck in all your endeavours,
    kia kaha !! ( be strong go hard )

  20. The Truth Says:

    I Can assure you the VNV man had nothing to do with it.
    I can bet on it the Legacy’s had everything to do with it.
    Everywhere they go,you can count on a fight.Young’ins that need to grow-up.

  21. T.N.T. Says:


  22. REAL LVMC Says:

    The Truth, how can you assure anything? Where you there? Are you a member of VNVLV MC? I bet you are not because if you were you would know better. Just go ride your bike (if you have one) and have fun, just dont flap your lips you know nothing about.

  23. nam vet 2 Says:

    If the VNVMC would stop acting like gangsters they wouldn’t get so much grief. The new legacy vets are starting all the shit after yrs of getting along w/other clubs. The young guys are pushing out the older vets who have given 20 or more yrs to the club. It’s thier own fault. Heal thy self…

  24. Phuquehed Says:

    @nam vet 2 – Starting what shit? If anyone’s “starting shit”, it sounds like you and here to just stir it – with your tongue.

  25. Jim666 Says:

    @ nam vet 2

    Some of my closest friends are/were in the VNVMC and I have never witnessed anything close to “Gangster” {your word} about them, they are from my experience all good men that gave a lot to a country that turned on them, and after yrs of bullshit started something bigger than themselves, and a good thing I might add.
    Maybe you really haven’t been around them enough to even comment on whether they are or are not “Gangster”?

    Sgt. King Williams (shark)

    Good luck on your Patch.
    Getting it isnt the hard part.
    Remember that and you`ll be a good man,

  26. slycechyx Says:

    I’ve been on rides with VNVMC, I’ve been to their anniversary parties & when invited again, I sure will go.

  27. RtC Says:


  28. DesertH-D Says:

    nam vet 2 – By your handle, I presume you served in Nam. If so, welcome home.

    That being said, on this particular case, I know more than one of the men involved in it. They are the furthest thing from “gangsters” one could ever imagine! And yes, these are on the “Legacy” side of the club. Just because they are too young to have served in Vietnam, don’t presume that they have not been vetted thoroughly by those that did.

    I will grant you this… The men in question are combat vets, and are not ones to back down when pushed. They are not afraid in the slightest to fight back. If that makes a man a “gangster”, well then count me in, I will gladly count myself among those ranks.

    Your comment initially induced a less gracious response in my mind. I have withheld only due to your handle, pending any further commentary from you. In any further commentary, I would ask you to consider how well you really know of what you speak… If you conclude perhaps it’s not so well as you first thought, then you should follow the suggestion in Roundabout’s last sentence.

    Continued best wishes to Opie and the SinCity8.

  29. Mattkenzie Says:

    2 months and This case goes to trial. Best wishes to the Viet Nam Vets / Legacy Vets MC. May the sun never set on the Red & Black World ( VNV/LVMC & SBMC)

  30. Wednesday Says:

    I love these guys and for everything they stand. Long live VNV LV MC forever. I will support the Red & Black till the day I die. And get this “It’s my Husband’s Club”

  31. bcnasty Says:

    Let me start by saying I have never been in the military. When I was a bit younger my brother was killed in Nam. As a kid that was a few years younger I hated the military and every damn thing it stood for. I can still remember to this day my dad in uniform and a few guys my brother served with at attention from the gun salute. The flag being folded and my dad having them hand it to me. Hate is all I felt. To my brother for leaving me .To my dad who was serving at the same time and could have stopped my brother from joining. To my mom that could have convinced dad to not let my brother join.To our government that took my world for a fucked up war I did not understand.I burned my draft card,participated in protest, wore and army jacked with a flag flow upside down and basically went to shit as a human being. Emotions that ruled my life for years. Fast forward a few years I join a national club and patch for a few years. Move 650 miles away after a state vacation and meet a VNV member. Have conversations and attend his clubs functions. We become good friends. One year he talks me into a run to the wall and we go find my brothers name. While tracing it meet a dude that served and knew my brother close enough to know my brother called me Maggoo. Like Mr Maggoo that was on tv back then. Anyways this VNV patch not only becomes a friend he becomes as close to an older brother as I have had in years. Fast forward a few years and multiple parties with him and his brothers he calls me to the clubhouse one day and as I walk by the wall I see my brothers name up on the wall of their clubhouse. These are the type of men that wear Red and Black.Last year I buried that man and my world went into another spin so I did the only thing I could think of to honor him. Designed a tattoo and had it inked on some of the last real estate my body has. His words to me was always the same, ” BC, you and I got raised the same way by military men that patched. The difference between you and I is I never wanted to be a criminal ”
    Rest In Peace my friend, I think of you often and smile.
    Respects and Love to the Black and Red World for seeing something in me others did not.Criminals, hell no but then most clubs do not deserve this tag either.


  32. hectorhmartinez Says:

    Today January 29, 2015. I’m a little late on my comment. I, am a Viet Nam Veteran, I, am service disabled 20% bilateral, hearing shot.
    and 100% Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, PTSD. I, also have a, Harley,
    “2000 Low Rider Crusin Fat Boy”. I got tired of sitting at home since I hate to go anywhere. I joined Twitter last year. I was just checking on stuff on line. Long story short, there was no propaganda or news on any Viet Nam Veterans. Started searching more, there was news like,”the aging Viet Nam Veteran”, “The dying Veteran”, The one that got to me was, Getting a job after fighting for country, zero,
    Hey, I, have worked with men who did every thing but wear a dress. These people spread rumors about the Viet Nam Veteran, we are dangerous, watch out for him, a walking bomb. Anyway, Since last year on twitter, I find copy, search, notes, storys, about the now in the present, Viet Nam Veteran me! to my VNCMC brothers wish I was there.

  33. TOBY Says:


  34. jsaleone's not wife Says:

    I get so fed up by government looking down on MC’S as gangs. This is completely disrepectul to club members who do things proper. I am privileged to know many members and am happier for it. AND, I do not surround myself with butt-heads.

    Thank you,

  35. Roundabout Says:

    Any new info / insight on this, Rebel? Have heard that things were pushed to June. I’m guessing public perception based on Waco PD lies will not help the Red & Black, the MMC, the 44 and all others who are currently battling for the freedom to be left the fuck alone.

    Respect to all Legitimate Brotherhoods

  36. Cal Banyan Says:

    Help us to raise money to help these brothers. Come to the “Sin City 8” run, July 25, 2015 at Spoons Restaurant, in Santa Ana, CA. See run flier here,

  37. Rebel Says:

    Dear Cal,

    Please email me a copy of the flier.


  38. Furby Says:

    Looked y’all up after running into one of yalls LV members. Honestly the guy was kinda a dick. still got respect for all the old vets and young ones and all active duty. But shit on the government that screwed y’all. Time we band ALL mc’s together and take our freedom back. This will end one way and one way only and that’s in bloodshed. I don’t know bout y’all but I ain’t spilling my blood until I take some of those corrupt bastards with me

  39. dogbreath Says:

    I saw a passing mention that the ‘Sin City 8’ were free of all charges as of late 2015, but have not found a solid piece of reporting on it anywhere.

  40. TOBY T Says:


  41. Bikerfagsdie Says:


    Mr. or Miss Bikerfagsdie appears to be what experienced computer users call a “troll.” A troll is, basically, a deluded person who thinks I care or you care what they think. This one lives in Huntington Beach, California. You can learn more about trolls here
    and here

    You retards are seriously trying to act like you’re from the 70s or SOA when you’re a bunch of lame-o retards, meth heads, POSERS and basically the degenerate assholes the media portrays you to be…which in fact, you actually are. Serves you right. Stupid fake biker wannabes. Go find your own war, your own thing to hang on to like maybe unicycles, or some other less gay shit and then, maybe then, you’ll get… nevermind. You’re not worth the waste of intellect. Dumb fucks.


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    […] couple years old. But it would seem no Club is immune. And Now The Vietnam Vets November 25, 2013 And Now The Vietnam Vets | The Aging Rebel Do`t know if it is just a regional thing. East/West or just different times we are in as to how […]

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