Mongols Ban Going To Trial

October 21, 2013

All Posts, Features, News

Last week the Australian state of Queensland banned 26 motorcycle clubs. This morning the Department of Justice, and a federal district judge named Otis D. Wright II, moved closer to banning an American motorcycle club. The Mongols Motorcycle Club now faces the possibility of being the first motorcycle club to be banned in two countries. If the Mongols are banned in the United States, most other American motorcycle clubs may quickly be banned as well.

The American Mongols ban seems preposterous at first glance. It is a direct descendant of an ATF undercover investigation of the Mongols that began in 2005 and was codenamed Operation Black Rain. That investigation led to the indictment of 79 members and associates of the club for racketeering in 2008. One of those defendants died in custody. Another pled guilty to a minor marijuana charge. Seventy-seven defendants were eventually coerced by the rigged practice of federal justice into pleading guilty to racketeering.

Banning The Patch

The prosecution, which was led by two Assistant United States Attorneys named Christopher Brunwin and Steven Welk proposed to ban the Mongols Motorcycle Club by outlawing the display of club insignia. A press release issued exactly five years ago today, on October 21, 2008 claimed:

“’In addition to pursuing the criminal charges set forth in the indictment, for the first time ever, we are seeking to forfeit the intellectual property of a gang,’ said United States Attorney Thomas P. O’Brien. ‘The name Mongols, which is part of the gang’s patch that members wear on their motorcycle jackets, was trademarked by the gang. The indictment alleges that this trademark is subject to forfeiture. We have filed papers seeking a court order that will prevent gang members from using or displaying the name Mongols. If the court grants our request for this order, then if any law enforcement officer sees a Mongol wearing his patch, he will be authorized to stop that gang member and literally take the jacket right off his back.’”

Cops were allured by the idea of gaining a license to rip clothes from the backs of people they did not like. The same idea was proposed in a racketeering case against the Pagans Motorcycle Club a year later. Unfortunately for the anti-biker police, there are multiple case law citations that describe motorcycle club insignia as a constitutionally protected form of personal expression. In the 2008 Mongols case, named US versus Cavazos and others after lead defendant and former Mongols president Ruben “Doc” Cavazos, Assistant U.S. Attorney Welk never stopped trying to seize the Mongols name and logo – which portrays a Mongol warrior in bell bottom jeans riding a rigid framed motorcycle while simultaneously smoking a joint and brandishing a scimitar.

Welk lost every attempt. The late district court judge Florence Marie Cooper, who issued the original order freezing ownership of the Mongols insignia, was particularly contemptuous of Welk’s grand plan for banning motorcycle clubs. Two other federal judges agreed with Cooper that the Mongols patch was a form of free speech. One of those judges was Wright. He was not happy to be so constrained by law. And it was Wright who suggested to Welk in open court how the ban might be made to work. Wright’s idea was to indict the whole motorcycle club as a “criminal enterprise,” establish that the Mongols owned the name and patch and then compel the club to forfeit those.

Never Give Up

That’s what Welk did last February 13. By recapitulating the allegations made in the 2008 Cavazos indictment, Welk convinced a federal grand jury to indict “Mongol Nation, an unincorporated association.”

“At all relevant times,” the indictment begins, “the Mongols Outlaw Motorcycle Gang (the Mongols Gang), was an organization engaged in, among other things, murder, conspiracy to commit murder, attempted murder, conspiracy to traffic in narcotics, narcotics-trafficking, robbery, extortion, money laundering, and witness intimidation. At all relevant times, the Mongols Gang operated in the Central District of California and elsewhere. The Mongols Gang, including its leadership, full patched members, prospective and probationary members, and associates (often referred to as ‘hang arounds’), constituted an Enterprise, as Defined” under the federal racketeering statute as interpreted by an 1981 Supreme Court decision called United States versus Turkette.

The Turkette decision twisted the legal meaning of the phrase “criminal enterprise.” The original intent of the racketeering statute, commonly called RICO, was to prevent the so-called Mafia, corrupt labor unions, and similar groups from “going legit.” When RICO was signed into law by Richard Nixon, a “criminal enterprise” was a legitimate business like a bar or bowling alley that had been bought and was operated using illegally gotten gains. Turkette changed the meaning of “criminal enterprise” so that “enterprise” no longer meant a corrupted business but rather the “conspirators” who corrupted the enterprise. The current Mongol Nation prosecution takes the meaning a step farther. This federal prosecution simply assumes that anyone who calls himself a Mongol today was part of a limited and arguable criminal conspiracy that unarguably ceased to exist five years ago.

Criminal Word

The 44-page Mongol Nation indictment accuses every Mongol of being a criminal because that’s what Mongol means. In one passage, Welk writes that the vetting process candidates for membership undergo is “to establish the potential member’s willingness to commit crimes on behalf of the Mongols gang.”

Essentially, the United States has indicted a turn of phrase: “Mongol Nation.” The government has actually handed the papers over to the club’s current president, David Santillan. Santillan was in court today but he is not indicted. No current or former member of the club is indicted. Instead what has been indicted is whatever comes to mind when one hears the word “Mongols.” The entire point of the case is to continue to try to seize the Mongols name and patch.

The club replied to this naked attempt to steal their name by filing a lawsuit in June titled Mongols Nation Motorcycle Club, LLC versus Eric H. Holder, Attorney General of the United States.

The Holder suit argues that “The government is improperly attempting to seize the collective marks of the Club and its members because the RICO forfeiture statute is an in personam mechanism that can only be employed against individuals committing a crime under RICO and cannot be applied against the Club which bears no responsibility for the actions of members who act outside of the scope of their membership with the Club.” The suit also argued that the RICO case against a name is simply an attempt to seize the Mongols insignia and that issue has already been decided. And the suit asked that the federal courts put a stop to an ongoing, unconstitutional infringement “on the Club’s First Amendment rights.”

Motion Hearing

This morning’s hearing was to decide two motions. One motion, by the government sought to dismiss the Holder suit. The other motion, by the Mongols, sought to dismiss the Mongol Nation indictment. Judge Wright ruled against the Mongols on both motions and his animosity toward the club and its attorney Bob Bernstein was palpable.

Without even a slight nod to impartiality Wright called the Holder suit “wrong on so many levels” and a reaction to “a new indictment which you don’t like.” Wright also told Bernstein that there was “no proof” that the indictment had a “chilling effect” on free speech.

When Bernstein told the judge “the issue is the rights of the unconvicted” Mongols, Wright replied “If the club is convicted (forfeiture) will be part of their sentence.”

In one loud, long and angry outburst from the bench, Wright made it clear that he has already decided that the Mongols Motorcycle Club is guilty of racketeering. Declaring himself to be an “expert” witness as well as a judge Wright said, “I almost wanted to laugh when I saw your reference to the club’s constitution.” “The (club) bylaws are a joke.” “This is a criminal enterprise.” “This is a dangerous enterprise.”

Calling the motion to dismiss the criminal case “incredible,” a clearly furious Wright gloated, “We do now have the owner of the marks indicted” and he argued that the Mongols patch is a weapon that club members use to intimidate non-members. “Proclaiming to all, you do not (fuck) with the Mongols,” Wright sputtered. “They (whoever they are) are operating under the banner of the Mongols.”

“Forfeiture will be part of the eventual sentence,” Wright predicted a second time.

The actual, apparently superfluous, trial is now scheduled to begin in Judge Wright’s court next March 25.

 

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153 Responses to “Mongols Ban Going To Trial”

  1. RtC Says:

    @OC VAGO 1%er. This dumbfuck don’t know. Click his name & it comes to a
    site called The TROLLHOUSE, where he’s being called a cunt there too! LOL
    I just can’t wrap my head around the mental IN-capacity of these types.
    They just don’t comprehend the fact that the world isn’t as big as it once
    was. Guess most of them are counting on the fact of being a minor will save
    their ass. So I do get his B’stard, since all of these children are too lazy to spell BASTARD completely. And the MP must stand for Moronic Piece Of Shit. There’s that total laziness again. Tsk Tsk Tsk. It really is a
    shame that 13&14 year old’s ARE inherently born with computer skills, just
    no respect, common sense or courtesy.
    RESPECTS to the REAL
    RtC

  2. OC VAGO 1%er Says:

    @ alan B’stard MP (@alanBStardmp)

    I’m curious. Who are the “ordinary decent” clubs?

  3. Oldskewl Says:

    Phuquehed Says:

    Trolls and fucktards (that’s you, alan), the exit is that way –>

    Pieces of shit like alan are a dime a dozen… I’m actually surprised he has the intelligence to navigate his way here.

    OS

  4. John Deaux Says:

    Phuquehed
    LMFAO, much respect sent.
    Support Your Local
    John Deaux

  5. Phuquehed Says:

    Looks like people worldwide despise you and have no respect for you, alan, you stupid little bitch. That must be why you’re always in a rage and have to troll, right? Did you take any pictures of your latest iorc chapter blowjob-a-thon to post on the iorc facebook page?

    Here’s some good advice…

    Trolls and fucktards (that’s you, alan), the exit is that way –>

  6. alan B'stard MP (@alanBStardmp) Says:

    Thomas Shut the fuck up. The Mongols in Australia are finished. I understand the HA have 3 members in Queensland, and the clubs are getting to other states. The other states will follow

    Ordinary decent clubs can now emerge

    Fuck 1%

  7. thomas Says:

    i’m not a biker but i RESPECT your way of life. i’m from holland (netherlands europe) i understand that you’r all vet’s? i like to read about all your live’s but i wanna say the cops are all bastards in every country of the world i mean everybody has problems with the law if it’s right or not. i say stand you’r ground en protect and fight for you’r right. sorry if i’m not welcome here but RESPECT TO YOU ALL,

    thomas (holland)

  8. Steve Says:

    After Saturday ask your P for a save the patch tee.

    support the save your patch.

    respect, Steve

  9. Steve Says:

    support save the patch

  10. American Says:

    Lawlessness increases because morality decreases and governments attempt to deal with the increased lawlessness through ever more stringent laws. The solution is to increase morality and empower moral people to defeat lawlessness. Then you don’t need government authoritarianism.

  11. Tooj Says:

    As for the question that keeps getting asked about starting a new club? Why should one approach the established order? This gentleman is definitely no 1%er, but I find the quote pertains:

    “Often, we get stuck on a question for which we can’t find an acceptable answer.
    That is a good time to consider asking a different question.
    Every question is based on some assumptions – usually invisible assumptions that we don’t see, unless we go looking.”
    – Jonathan Lockwood Huie

  12. Snow Says:

    Alex
    Thank you much appreciated, the same to you.
    Just you know, I understand your anger and maybe your justified in it but coming here where no one was involved in your issue with a fuck you attitude will get you bombed just like it would if it happened in a bar somewhere. We may not always agree here but we support each other, well most times anyway.
    Support Your Local
    FTF ACAB
    Snow

  13. Alex Johnson Says:

    @snow
    Again thank you …I was gonna reply to some points that you have made..but it really doesn’ t
    Matter…it is all for not…because no matter ahat I say or you say..nothing will change..so gods speed and good luck with your fight for the right to fly…

  14. Snow Says:

    WARTHOG
    Thank you and back to you.
    Hope all is well with the family, spoiling the granddaughter much ? Lol.
    Much repect sent to you my friend
    Support Your Local
    FTF ACAB
    Snow

  15. Freeman Says:

    @ Mike 184

    Yup they will, and so can assholes mix the two and you get a shitkicker’s bal waiting to happen.

  16. Glenn S. Says:

    Alex Johnson said: “I am tattooed head to toe..and I get accused all the time of being shadey or a criminal…”

    Hmmm. Sounds like you intentionally affected a certain look but have not lived the life that often results in that look. Maybe the yuppies and citizens think you look, as you put it, “shadey or a criminal” and give you space because of it. Maybe people who have lived a particular life see that look and make a quick assumption that you know the score and might even be a threat. I’m not a member of a club, but I have lived the life. I might have stabbed you too, given possible variations of the circumstances you describe, circumstances that we are hearing only one side of that might include a woman who seeks attention, as many women do, and a jealous man whose wife twists a knot in his gut every time they go out in mixed company.

    Here’s another way such circumstances often end: Half drunk man goes to piss while his half drunk wife waits. With husband out of sight, half drunk wife makes goo goo eyes and smiles at a couple of men. The men smile back at the seemingly unattached woman in the age old mating game that often ends well for all concerned. But woman is not unattached, and hubby appears, sees someone trying to get to know his wife better, and is pissed. He pulls out a pistol and shoots both men. Everybody knows that this shit happens. A lot. You know it, and the club members you encountered knew it too.

    From what I’ve seen, water seeks its own depth. It sounds like you’re a poser so I’m guessing that since you affect a look of something you are not, your wife affects the look she believes is “biker chick”, complete with the “fuck me” posture.

    My unsolicited suggestion to you (since you have probably already broken Glenn’s rule #1 in the relationship area of life, which is not to marry a woman who is going to get you killed or make you kill somebody else) is to take your wife to the tame yuppie franchise biker bars (often found next to Harley dealerships), or some upscale nightclub, in the future. Maybe your wife can flirt with men there and then you can scare them off.

    And if you want payback for the cause of your trouble, maybe you just need to go fuck your wife’s best friend.

  17. Mike 184 Says:

    @ Freeman, yep seen that. Women will turn a good evening to shit in a heartbeat. PH’s chillin and havin fun, chick stirs up drama.

    Then there is the ” well do you know so and so???” And that will always raise an eye, and you never know that status or standing of “so and so”.

    Then there is the ever intelligent person who comes up and tries to score some contraband…. Most do not mess with anything and that comes across directly as an insult….

  18. Base Says:

    Alex, maybe you should have stayed home. 35 years of riding and you get side ways with not 1 but 2 Patches? Hmmmm, something not passing the smell test.

    Suspect it is more on the lines of what Sieg or Freemen pointed out. Or something similar.
    Respects fella’s.

    As for the now? Just like then you should have stayed home, or left your ol’lady at home. You should have refrained from commenting and just kept reading then you would have avoided insulting and being insulted.

    I always find it ironic that people see the dog shit, step in the dog shit then wonder why their boots stink and blame the dog for it.

  19. Freeman Says:

    Bars so many memories, it happened a couple of times id wake up the morning, plug in the water boiler and start remembering the night before, remembering why my ribs hurt, remembering the guy i fought with and suddenly thinking, shit what a dumb ass i was, i just could have this and this and nobody would have lost face and all would have been cool and i wouldn’t be staring out the window feeling bad cause i messed up someones face.

    Fact of the matter is this, yeah 99% of the times it can be avoided, i remember in my early 20’s being in a bar, and seeing 2 patch of a major club come in with this really hot lighly dressed chick, im drinkin having fun listening to the band, later that night the chick is on to me grabs my ass and is coming on hard, i look back at the patch holders, their minding their on business not paying attention and having fun, somehow i just dont trust the chick and dont feel it, so i tell her look ive seen the gorilla you came in with(the guy was huge) i dont want none of it, chick yells in my hear (the music was loud) your a quick one arent you! told her guess you could say that.

    Minutes later a shit storm rises from where those guys where sitting, goes right in front of the stage to where the chick was and some poor sap is being carried out the door to get is ass kicked,had fun, didn’t get any pussy that night, walked out after last call, a bit before 3 am chick was right outside the door with by then 4 members, and she winked at me, guess she had her fun, bottom line is know your fucking surroundings at all times.

  20. Austin Says:

    @ Sieg – Nearly exactly my thoughts. “Moral of the story is that 99.999% of the time, if you have trouble in a bar, it’s because you asked for it.”

    I think you can leave out ‘in a bar’ and call it good.

  21. Sieg Says:

    Ya know, it’s funny…over the last 40 years, I’ve spent more quality time in questionabe slopchutes than I can begin to recall. el-Lay, Detroit, Chicago, TJ, Cartagena, all the garden spots. Biker bars, shitkicker bars, player bars, cantinas full of dealers n whores, and mostly i’ve had a woman with me, girlfriend, wife, ol lady, whatever.

    In all those times, I can honestly say there were only a few that turned out bad from the jump. And those few times, it wasn’t anything personal, the shit was gonna jump, and I happened to be the one it jumped on.

    Moralnof the story is that 99.999% of the time, if you have trouble in a bar, it’s because you asked for it.

    That said, I call bullshit on imavet. Sarge always said “stow yer sea-stories when ya hit port.”

    FTF/FTP
    TOSIAR
    5 TO 1
    SYLO

  22. Siren Says:

    @ FF,

    In my experience of seeing “the average person” encountering a 1%, it usually goes something like this:

    Average everyday soccer mom (at the convenience store, while the club is gassing up): “Puleeeeeze, can I get a picture with you guys, puleeeeeze…?
    Member to another member: “You know it’s going to wind up on her Facebook.” Regardless, they concur. The picture gets taken. She leaves in her mini-van extremely happy.

    Average everyday soccer mom with her teenage daughter (pacing in front of the restaurant window with camera phone in hand). As the club exits the restaurant, soccer mom pleads, “Puleeeeeze can we get a picture with you, puleeeeeeeeeze. It would mean so much to my daughter”. Again, knowing it’s going to wind up on both of their Facebooks, the picture gets taken. The gals leave…giggling and skipping on cloud 9.

    Don’t get me started on what the drunken bar wenches (with boyfriends/husbands) do to get a member’s attention. They make soccer moms look like Mother Theresa.

  23. WARTHOG Says:

    @Snow,

    You are one righteous individual. Much respect.

    Warthog

    FTP FTF FTW ACAB

  24. chromedome Says:

    Shake my muthafuckin head @alex lolololol……you could have saved yourself alot of trouble by leaving out the insults and all the talk about “crying” bullshit. I wonder if you were “crying” on your way to the hospital after you got poked with the knife you probably pulled out on the twp brother when you found out they were bout to run a train on your ol lady.

    …supportyourlocalwhiteboy…

  25. Snow Says:

    Alex
    Ok but you and those like you have to understand we voluntarily give up some freedoms to coexist all the time. Our’s is no different, but men have shed blood, done time, and faced death for our thing so we’re protective of it.
    Being ex military you know no one gets a Bronze Star or Purple Heart just cause you want one. You GOTTA earn it.
    To expect men who earned theirs to just say, well ok do whatever you want to those who haven’t just rubs the wrong way.
    I appreciate the respectful reply and offer you the same.
    Just remember no one changes because someone else things they should.
    Our World Our Rules.
    Support Your Local
    FTF ACAB
    Snow

  26. Phuquehed Says:

    You’re a fucking idiot, plain and simple. I’d PLONK you, but you’re so fucking stoopid you’d think I meant I was shitting you out…which would be a good analogy…but I can’t do either, so fuck off and tell your lies and bullshit elsewhere.

  27. Alex Johnson Says:

    To snow and stroker,
    I understand your point and weather you all want to bel it or not I am very familiar with your world..I have had family and friends in the clubs…I will respectfully agree to disagree with some of your points…all I will say is this world belongs to all and freedom is for all to do what they want…but once you start putting rules and stimpulations on freedom then you have lost what so many have fought and died for…thank you for your time and comments

  28. Snow Says:

    Alex
    I understand, shit happens and when it does it’s fast and sometimes ugly. Ok I get that, so I’m not saying who’s right and who’s wrong cause I wasn’t there to see it.
    The truth is your 98% more likely to get fucked over by a cop than a I%er. I speak for myself here but I’m sure most would agree, we want to be left alone.
    For the most part this world and the world of what would be called polite society never come into contact with each other. Most here have no interest in the polite society so stay out of it and would appreciate the same consideration.
    We all have places to be and things to do but if your thing brings you into our world remember, Our World Our Rules.
    Support Your Local
    FTF ACAB
    Snow

  29. stroker Says:

    @ Alex Johnson:

    I’ve read all your posts above, and all the replies. I’m not going to get into name calling or bashing you. I AM going to try (one more time) to educate someone who doesn’t seem to understand why we are so protective of our patches (and, if you’re a regular reader like you say you are, you KNOW what I’m about to say here, has been said many times over by myself, and others on this site).
    Just throwing a new patch on your back and strutting your stuff in any given town, anywhere, is going to ruffle feathers with those who already wear a patch in that own.
    OK…..ya with me so far?
    Why? Because usually, the patch-holders in that town have a very real interest in who starts putting a design on their back, that may or may not be an ok joe. Maybe the new patch guy does something stupid, and pisses off old lady Matilda, who can’t really tell one patch from another. The cops ask her who dunnit, and ask her if it was (insert local club’s name here) and she says yes, Now the local club is getting heat for something that new patch guy did.
    Ya still with me?
    Now in our culture, new patch guy is sought out, and made aware of the situation, i.e. ya don’t disrespect those who’ve established themselves in any given town by throwing a new patch on your back, without first giving a little respect to those who’ve gone before. It’s as simple as that. By saying “fuck you, I do what I want” you’ve just rubbed your arrogance in those guys (or gal’s) faces. That’s our culture. That’s what’s expected. What’s so hard to understand about that? Check in with the local clubs. State your intent. Go to a COC and announce yourself. In most areas, you’ll be given the “nod” or “blessing”, which simply means you’ll be watched for a while, and if ya fuck up, those that’ve gone before will be talking to you. Any further action beyond the “talking” is conjecture, but possible, and maybe probable.
    Show respect Mr. Veteran (I am too), but the idea of starting another club in someone else’s town without giving respect to those already there, is just flat-out disrespectful.

    And…………I’m betting there’s more to your story than just your side.

    CTL

  30. Alex Johnson Says:

    @Slick Rick…point well taken..however I didn’t tell them to back off..they told me to back off…when I stood my ground I got jumped by to cowaeds and then stabbed…I incident is not a rare accurance…and I am not new to this site…I have followed this site for years…again I’m not agreeing with the political parties of Washingtom nor do I support any agency like the ATF or NSA and so on…I am just saying if you choose a life you must accept the views of the people around you..
    Example how many young boys have been molested by catholic priests..does this make all priests guilty of this crime..NO it does not however that does not mean I am sending my son off to catholic school…guilty by association..

    I to ride and have for 35 years..I go on runs and poker rides…and so on..I am tattooed head to toe..and I get accused all the time of being shadey or a criminal…but I accept that cause I chose to look this way…

    I have never desired to be a part of a club any club mom and pop or 1%..but I do understand the desire to belong…

    No one on this site can argue that most clubs in this world haven’t earned their reputations of violence…intimidation..and fear..

    There are stories all over main stream media as well as here..biker news and so on of atracks and not all done by 1% clubs.

    Example outlaw pigs a cop club attacking a Hells Angel and shooting him in a bar at sturgis..
    You call what I’m righting disrespectful to the majority of the followers here on this site..and that I am lucky I’m doing it via internet vs in person…

    So my question is then aren’t we all doing the same thing..how many of you are going to washington and protesting..writting letters..or writting the judge…probably very few..

    I am not playing or still being the victim…I’m stating my opinion. .which all opinions are like ass holes they all stink..

    And of course I am sorry for my lack of proper arrangement with my posts never been really good at witting..

    So with that I will end my rant as it was called and end with this..if you all want to stop the feds and the police from fucking with…then join forces and be one giant gang LIKE the feds are and the cops..untied you will succeed apart you will fall…

  31. uncle don Says:

    Hey Alex, if you don’t have a picture of your wife posing on a bike mabe I could send you one. Nude of course.

  32. Panhead Says:

    @ Alex

    Now that we are all friends here, can we see a picture of your wife? Do you have one of her posing on a motorcycle?

    Panhead
    FAJ

  33. Freeman Says:

    Alex your full of it and talk like a god damned brainwashed sheep, your claims of being stabbed because you went to the restroom is bogus like the rest of your charabia, you said ”if you tell them to back off your wife because you had to go to the rest room you get beat up or stabbed” well son did you get beat up or stabbed? its rather vague, and getting more vague the more you talk, other thing is, its proven by writing analysis, someone using … to end most of their phrases, the phrase prior to … is most probably a lie, you sure do like those 3 little points don’t ya.

    Fuck off and take your bullshit somewhere else, and oh, happy holiday’s …

  34. Phuquehed Says:

    Ten bucks says the pussy’s OL would tell a different story, one more along the lines of “Two hunks were sweet talkin’ me and then my husband came out wiping his hands on his pants ’cause his dick is so small he pees on most of his fingers, and proceeds to tell these two nice guys that he was gonna kick their asses for talking to me…which would be pretty hard for him to do since the ten-year-old kid on the street whooped on him just the other day. I was embarrassed but before I could tell my shit-stain of a husband to shut the fuck up, he puffed up in front of one of the two guys and shoved and that, was the last aggressive move my asshole hubby did that night.”

    Oh, and I second Paladin’s ‘Budweiser Award’ for the asstard.

  35. Panhead Says:

    @ Alex Johnson,

    In our world most everyone is armed. It’s assumed that you are too. You are not allowed to move towards me quickly, to rush me. You can stand off 5 feet and rant. I may or may not fuck you up. But to rush me is to get stabbed or shot. Again, I assume you have a weapon and mean to injure me. Or worse. YOU must consider that I am armed and what the consequences of your rude behavior are going to be.

    You don’t know how often we go into bars and one of the local bad asses, after a few drinks, thinks that we don’t look so tough and looks for an excuse, any excuse to get loud and aggressive. To push.
    I’ve seen it a hundred times.

    That’s what you did, isn’t it? You moved quickly towards those two bikers in a threatening manner. Loud talking, gesturing? It was your fault Alex. Accept it.
    All of this other garbage you are spewing is cover for your mistake. It was self defense.
    He poked you Alex to get you off of him. He could have killed you. You are a lucky man.

    Run along now.

    Panhead

  36. Stevo Says:

    Dear Imavet,

    Before lecturing people on their intelligence level may I suggest you learn the difference between ‘to’ and ‘too’?

    Stevo

  37. Slick Rick Says:

    @rollinnorth………..I concur.

  38. rollinnorth Says:

    Merrily, it trolls along, trolls along, trolls along…
    Time to go back to ignoring Alex Johnson and the rest of the trolls.

    Respect.

  39. Tooj Says:

    Dear Alex Johnson.

    I’ll give back story to avoid assumptions. I am an Independent. Always have been and may always be. I will not question your story, it is yours. Your latest post gives a slight bit more detail that begins to clarify.

    You wrote: “..I don’t agree in punishing all for the actions of few are wrong…I agree fuck the goverment…how ever I did not go looking for 1% ers…I went to a local bar with my wife and came out to find two gentlmen harrassing my wife and when I approached I was told to back off then was stabbed in put in the hospital…”

    Followed a day later with: “yet they fight over property that isn’t theirs…if you tell them to back off your wife because you had to go to the rest room you get beat up or stabbed….”

    I’m thinking there is a lot more to the story but that would digress from my point. It seems to be that you are DOING (“punishing all for the actions of few” You wrote it) for something that happened between four people: your wife, two bikers and you.

    You are STILL living as a victim and folks can smell that through how you express yourself. You’re the guy walking around going, “Who’s the mark?”, all the while leaching blood into the water.

    So you hop on a site that is known to have 1%ers reading, etc. and proceed to call the entire general group a bunch of whiny babies. Do I have it straight so far?

    Yes, I believe that if I was having my peer group stereotyped over your personal experience followed by a rant of disrespect, then I might just tell you to go get stuffed. What’s wrong with that?

    You can claim that you are justified in disrespecting the folks on this site over what two others did to you, but I would hardly call the replies here stupid as compared to your initial foray. (Nor the continued attempts at insults….)

    Be glad you chose to do this via the internet instead of taking this approach in person. Stabbing wouldn’t seem quite so bad, I’d wager, if you did.

  40. Slick Rick Says:

    @Alex Johnson……..it’s not your big words that are hard to read. Rather it’s your run on sentence and lack of knowledge on how to use punctuation that makes your writings hard to understand.

    Maybe you should have thanked those two gentlemen who watched out for your wife while you were pissing instead of telling them to “backoff” and you wouldn’t have been given a lesson about being polite. However….I’m sure you’ve replayed that unfortunate incident in your mind thousands of times wondering what you could have done differently to avoid that outcome.

    Live & Let Live,
    Slick Rick

  41. Alex Johnson Says:

    As well spoken as these fine upstanding citizenns are in reguards to my statements obviously they need to learn how to read…because for exception for syaing you are all jokes which is being proven by your remarks…and by the way proving my point by telling me to stfu and so…I would rather wear bloused pants and be stationed at Ft. Benning Ga. Or servung in Afganistan. ..than be a dirt bag cry baby…who hides behind false internet names…that only read what they want…who probably didn’t even serve this country to deserve the rights and freedoms that they stomp all over on so they can wear leather like something out of the village people whoes name should be Barbra…let me see most Mc’s get mad if you call them a gang..yet they fight over property that isn’t theirs…if you tell them to back off your wife because you had to go to the rest room you get beat up or stabbed….the reason why the patch will be taken away is because the MC has retarted and simply minded morons like the people showing their asses supporting them…no I am not a cop..but you morons will threaten and bully on a site that is for sure monitored by them…it is jack asses like you is why the rest of us are having our freedoms stomped on by a bullshit and tyrantical government…sorry if I’m using to big of words for you…so now that I lowered myself to your levels so you might understand how stupid you all sound…all anyone has to do is cite the constitution…and all this bullshit will be over turned…once again this has nothing to do with shutting any club down….how do you keep someone down then keep them broke…and on the run…much like a chess game think 3 steps ahead anticipate the move of the feds and go around it….rebel..I tell you your followers have gone down hill..when they say it is the victims fault..and not the fault of the big bad biker’s fault…

  42. rollinnorth Says:

    Being the Christmas season and all, here is a friendly piece of advice for you, Alex Johnson: STFU!

    FTF FTP FTW

    Respect, to those…

  43. Paladin Says:

    Alex Johnson,

    Unless there’s a very compelling reason, 1%ers don’t pull a Jacques Cousteau (suddenly, out of nowhere, the 1%er appears).

    Bikers, 1%ers, etc. tend to frequent bars that are “biker friendly”. So, the reality is that you and your OL were at a neighborhood “biker bar”. Seeing an unescorted lady standing outside any bar is somewhat unusual. The two 1%ers were probably asking her why she was standing outside alone and if she was okay. Then you came out through the front door, allowing your Bulldog mouth to over run your Pekinese ass, which then caused you the lose of some hydraulic fluid.

    So, without further ado, I hereby nominate you for the Budweiser Award. Do I hear a second?

    Long May You Ride (to those that deserve to),

    Paladin

  44. Stevo Says:

    Dear Imavet,

    Did you read the Ciccone/Cavazos rat-propaganda tome and get inspired to be a cunt?

    Stevo

  45. Phuquehed Says:

    Another bitch telling lies and unable to figure out that (*if* it’s actually true what happened to him) just because one or two people do something bad doesn’t mean the whole crowd is exactly the same. Notice he doesn’t mention a club name, yet he supposedly got stabbed by PH’s.

    Johnson, you’re a lying shit-stain and more than likely a fucking pig just trying, like other scum pigs have tried, to justify why you and other pigs are so willing to step on the Bill of Rights and American citizens, who’ve harmed far less people in 60 years than the pigs have done in *HALF* that time.

    Get back to your pig circle-jerk, the fed faggots are missing their pivot man.

  46. Sieg Says:

    Another dickweed imavet troll.

    IF you got shanked outside some slopchute, you earned it. You took your wife to a place where scooter tramps hang-out, then left her alone on the sidewalk in front of the place…the fuck, are you retarded, or just tryina spin up a little cred?!?!?!?

    Wah wah wah…I wanna wear a patch I didn’t earn. Well watdafuk! Wear that bad boy and deal with whatever comes down the pike. Or wear a pairof jump boots with yer drawers bloused in one of the jernts outside the gate at Benning. Tell those nice young men that imavet and I can wear whatever I want.

    Cunt.

    FTF/FTP
    TOSIAR
    5 TO 1
    SYLO

  47. Alex Johnson Says:

    As I stated I agree that the MC’s rights are being violated. ..I don’t agree in punishing all for the actions of few are wrong…I agree fuck the goverment…how ever I did not go looking for 1% ers…I went to a local bar with my wife and came out to find two gentlmen harrassing my wife and when I approached I was told to back off then was stabbed in put in the hospital…by these two men..so like I said before..I think it is funny that you all are crying about big brother bullying you around…because you feel violated so I say FUCK YOU! I have 4 holes in me from your so called brethren. ..may be if the 1% world didn’t go around terroizing and bullying…like the guy last year in pomona who was beat up by a 1% club for wearing the wrong shirt…
    Obam and Biden can go eat a giant dick…the political parties all should be tried for crimes against the people and shot by firing squad…that still doesn’t change the.fact that the 1% er community crying about being bullied is a joke…and last time I checked the elks club doesn’t blow up other people or shoot other people. ..and for the record I belong to the American Lw gion and the VFW…as for me being a threat to this country because if my service…I agree…but I’m not crying about it…I write letters in protest…but I also don’t go out anf commit crimes then bitch when I get caught…FREEDOM is for all people…so why would I have to get permission to wear a patch from anyone..why do 1% er bikers have the right to tell someone else they can’t wear that patch or shirt around here….may be 1% er community would have more support if they were shooting each other in laughlin, reno, sturgis, and so on…as for cops fuck the police they are as crooked as most criminals…i served this country proudly and will defend the constitution…to this day for all peoples rights…but im sorry i dont feel sorry for a group of men who built their reputation off intimidation and fear…i dont believe criminals should have rights…and i believe in an eye for an eye….

  48. FF Says:

    Ya know, I’m getting real sick and tired of scumbags qualifying their spew and psychobabble with “I’m a veteran”.

    WHO GIVES A FUCK.

    That’s number one. Second of all, the average person NEVER ONCE ENCOUNTERS A 1%er MC member. That’s never, as in NEVER.

    You cross paths with 1%ers when you go looking for them.

    Anybody who thinks the amount of attention and the resources and money pissed away by our federal, state and local PIG DEPARTMENTS to go after and persecute MC’s is a worthless POS who doesn’t even warrant a civil response.

    YOU AR A FUCKING MORON ALEX JOHNSON.

    Eat shit and live, suffer, THEN FUCKING DIE.

  49. Freeman Says:

    @ Alex Johnson

    Go fuck your self the government of any so called civilized country as done far worst in the last century then any mc 1%er or not, hell religions have done TONS of really despicable and horrifying shit, a war is when the government TELLS you who the enemy is, a revolution is when you figure it out for yourself.

  50. Slick Rick Says:

    @ Alex Johnson…….are you going to be laughing when the US Gestapo has achieved their goal of stripping all the patches from across the country(in the interest of national security) and they need a new group to pick on to justify their budgets? Laugh Out loud when they come after your bowling team or your brothers down at the Elks Lodge or whatever groups your condescending ass belongs to. They are already labeling one of your groups as “enemies of the state”. You being a “veteran” makes you an enemy because chances are you possess combat skills and experience and were welcome to use them against foreign and domestic enemies. You’re not on the team anymore so you are on a list of potential recruits by right-wing extremists…….that makes you an enemy. DHS says you are a potential terrorist. Wake the fuck up and stand for the liberties you served for. Don’t pick and choose groups who you feel are worthy of having these liberties. That makes you one of them. Thank you for your service.

    @ South Sider……are you a PH? If you are its exactly that kind of narrow minded rhetoric that keeps clubs from being able to UNITE for the cause. I’m not saying being buddies or pals. But just coming together as MEN do when there is injustice occuring.

    Live & Let Live,
    Slick Rick

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