Mongols Ban Going To Trial

Mon, Oct 21, 2013

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Mongols Ban Going To Trial

Last week the Australian state of Queensland banned 26 motorcycle clubs. This morning the Department of Justice, and a federal district judge named Otis D. Wright II, moved closer to banning an American motorcycle club. The Mongols Motorcycle Club now faces the possibility of being the first motorcycle club to be banned in two countries. If the Mongols are banned in the United States, most other American motorcycle clubs may quickly be banned as well.

The American Mongols ban seems preposterous at first glance. It is a direct descendant of an ATF undercover investigation of the Mongols that began in 2005 and was codenamed Operation Black Rain. That investigation led to the indictment of 79 members and associates of the club for racketeering in 2008. One of those defendants died in custody. Another pled guilty to a minor marijuana charge. Seventy-seven defendants were eventually coerced by the rigged practice of federal justice into pleading guilty to racketeering.

Banning The Patch

The prosecution, which was led by two Assistant United States Attorneys named Christopher Brunwin and Steven Welk proposed to ban the Mongols Motorcycle Club by outlawing the display of club insignia. A press release issued exactly five years ago today, on October 21, 2008 claimed:

“’In addition to pursuing the criminal charges set forth in the indictment, for the first time ever, we are seeking to forfeit the intellectual property of a gang,’ said United States Attorney Thomas P. O’Brien. ‘The name Mongols, which is part of the gang’s patch that members wear on their motorcycle jackets, was trademarked by the gang. The indictment alleges that this trademark is subject to forfeiture. We have filed papers seeking a court order that will prevent gang members from using or displaying the name Mongols. If the court grants our request for this order, then if any law enforcement officer sees a Mongol wearing his patch, he will be authorized to stop that gang member and literally take the jacket right off his back.’”

Cops were allured by the idea of gaining a license to rip clothes from the backs of people they did not like. The same idea was proposed in a racketeering case against the Pagans Motorcycle Club a year later. Unfortunately for the anti-biker police, there are multiple case law citations that describe motorcycle club insignia as a constitutionally protected form of personal expression. In the 2008 Mongols case, named US versus Cavazos and others after lead defendant and former Mongols president Ruben “Doc” Cavazos, Assistant U.S. Attorney Welk never stopped trying to seize the Mongols name and logo – which portrays a Mongol warrior in bell bottom jeans riding a rigid framed motorcycle while simultaneously smoking a joint and brandishing a scimitar.

Welk lost every attempt. The late district court judge Florence Marie Cooper, who issued the original order freezing ownership of the Mongols insignia, was particularly contemptuous of Welk’s grand plan for banning motorcycle clubs. Two other federal judges agreed with Cooper that the Mongols patch was a form of free speech. One of those judges was Wright. He was not happy to be so constrained by law. And it was Wright who suggested to Welk in open court how the ban might be made to work. Wright’s idea was to indict the whole motorcycle club as a “criminal enterprise,” establish that the Mongols owned the name and patch and then compel the club to forfeit those.

Never Give Up

That’s what Welk did last February 13. By recapitulating the allegations made in the 2008 Cavazos indictment, Welk convinced a federal grand jury to indict “Mongol Nation, an unincorporated association.”

“At all relevant times,” the indictment begins, “the Mongols Outlaw Motorcycle Gang (the Mongols Gang), was an organization engaged in, among other things, murder, conspiracy to commit murder, attempted murder, conspiracy to traffic in narcotics, narcotics-trafficking, robbery, extortion, money laundering, and witness intimidation. At all relevant times, the Mongols Gang operated in the Central District of California and elsewhere. The Mongols Gang, including its leadership, full patched members, prospective and probationary members, and associates (often referred to as ‘hang arounds’), constituted an Enterprise, as Defined” under the federal racketeering statute as interpreted by an 1981 Supreme Court decision called United States versus Turkette.

The Turkette decision twisted the legal meaning of the phrase “criminal enterprise.” The original intent of the racketeering statute, commonly called RICO, was to prevent the so-called Mafia, corrupt labor unions, and similar groups from “going legit.” When RICO was signed into law by Richard Nixon, a “criminal enterprise” was a legitimate business like a bar or bowling alley that had been bought and was operated using illegally gotten gains. Turkette changed the meaning of “criminal enterprise” so that “enterprise” no longer meant a corrupted business but rather the “conspirators” who corrupted the enterprise. The current Mongol Nation prosecution takes the meaning a step farther. This federal prosecution simply assumes that anyone who calls himself a Mongol today was part of a limited and arguable criminal conspiracy that unarguably ceased to exist five years ago.

Criminal Word

The 44-page Mongol Nation indictment accuses every Mongol of being a criminal because that’s what Mongol means. In one passage, Welk writes that the vetting process candidates for membership undergo is “to establish the potential member’s willingness to commit crimes on behalf of the Mongols gang.”

Essentially, the United States has indicted a turn of phrase: “Mongol Nation.” The government has actually handed the papers over to the club’s current president, David Santillan. Santillan was in court today but he is not indicted. No current or former member of the club is indicted. Instead what has been indicted is whatever comes to mind when one hears the word “Mongols.” The entire point of the case is to continue to try to seize the Mongols name and patch.

The club replied to this naked attempt to steal their name by filing a lawsuit in June titled Mongols Nation Motorcycle Club, LLC versus Eric H. Holder, Attorney General of the United States.

The Holder suit argues that “The government is improperly attempting to seize the collective marks of the Club and its members because the RICO forfeiture statute is an in personam mechanism that can only be employed against individuals committing a crime under RICO and cannot be applied against the Club which bears no responsibility for the actions of members who act outside of the scope of their membership with the Club.” The suit also argued that the RICO case against a name is simply an attempt to seize the Mongols insignia and that issue has already been decided. And the suit asked that the federal courts put a stop to an ongoing, unconstitutional infringement “on the Club’s First Amendment rights.”

Motion Hearing

This morning’s hearing was to decide two motions. One motion, by the government sought to dismiss the Holder suit. The other motion, by the Mongols, sought to dismiss the Mongol Nation indictment. Judge Wright ruled against the Mongols on both motions and his animosity toward the club and its attorney Bob Bernstein was palpable.

Without even a slight nod to impartiality Wright called the Holder suit “wrong on so many levels” and a reaction to “a new indictment which you don’t like.” Wright also told Bernstein that there was “no proof” that the indictment had a “chilling effect” on free speech.

When Bernstein told the judge “the issue is the rights of the unconvicted” Mongols, Wright replied “If the club is convicted (forfeiture) will be part of their sentence.”

In one loud, long and angry outburst from the bench, Wright made it clear that he has already decided that the Mongols Motorcycle Club is guilty of racketeering. Declaring himself to be an “expert” witness as well as a judge Wright said, “I almost wanted to laugh when I saw your reference to the club’s constitution.” “The (club) bylaws are a joke.” “This is a criminal enterprise.” “This is a dangerous enterprise.”

Calling the motion to dismiss the criminal case “incredible,” a clearly furious Wright gloated, “We do now have the owner of the marks indicted” and he argued that the Mongols patch is a weapon that club members use to intimidate non-members. “Proclaiming to all, you do not (fuck) with the Mongols,” Wright sputtered. “They (whoever they are) are operating under the banner of the Mongols.”

“Forfeiture will be part of the eventual sentence,” Wright predicted a second time.

The actual, apparently superfluous, trial is now scheduled to begin in Judge Wright’s court next March 25.


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144 Comments For This Post

  1. SYLM Says:

    Wow, this is total bullshit, I can’t believe this is still going on. I’m curious to know what you think will happen rebel. Thanks..

  2. Dr. Sardonicus Says:

    Pride goeth before the fall. Change the “Mongol Nation” name and logo to a similar but not identical variation of the name.
    Tradition, pride and history will have to take a back seat to survival.

    Take away the name, symbols, trademark and logo – you take away the case. Reform with new versions and the Feds have to refile and start all over. When they do – change it again.

    They’re persecuting a concept not a crime. BE as nebulous as the indictment.

    If a club is too rigid, won’t budge won’t compromise – they will be broken.

    Patch means everything yes – as long as there is a club behind it.

    Mongols now – everybody else later.

  3. Sieg Says:

    Need I say it again?!


    Getting real close to time here, AMERICANS need to stand up and be counted, and to start taking our Nation back. IF we don’t, then our descendants will curse our names as they toil on the plantations of the Oligarchs.

    There is no other way to see this. The simple fact that a person appointed or elected to dispense JUSTICE would so nakedly contrive to crush a legal, legitimate, organization, simply because its continued existence is inimitable to the interests of the Oligarchs, points up the fact that our Nation has been stolen, it’s Constitution abrogated, and it’s freedoms outlawed.

    Motorcyclists are only the tip of the iceberg, believe it. When all the clubs have been proscribed, and all the members put behind the wire, then the Oligarchs will have a free hand to do the same to ANY group, right down to the local Moose Lodge.

    It’s too late to “vote them out”. What has been termed “the soft war” is drawing to a close, and the “hard war”, the REAL war, is shaping up.

    ALL groups of American CITIZENS (don’t think I don’t see the irony of that term) need to be planning their responses to the Oligarchs FedGoonies who WILL be making their appearances at 06.00 at YOUR front door.

    The obvious…weapons, ammunition, defensive supplies, food and water. The not-so-obvious, the plans for who goes where and who does what, need to be laid NOW, and put into motion.

    Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

    5 to 1

  4. 11c_infantry Says:

    Every club had better start getting its shit together. This is not fucking good. To paraphrase Benjamin Franklin: we need to hang together, patch holders, or we will most assuredly hang separately. It’s long past time for us to put away our petty differences and become a force to be reckoned with. If we don’t start working together, I fear our days of flying our colors proudly will be over. When that day comes, we’ll all be sitting around in various bars (sans colors) complaining about our repressive government. Let’s not wait until that happens. Let’s get past our beefs and become a sizeable voting bloc with OUR rights as the central concern and motivation. If we can do that, we will truly have the power to control our own fate. If not, our fate will be in the manicured hands of panty-waist autocrats and effete gavel wielding, black dress wearing judges. The choice is ours to make.
    L&R to those who earned it,

  5. Erin Go Braugh Says:

    You said it, 11_c, When the Government rules the people, & decide, everything that we do, we ALL loose. Keep in mind, they work for US, lets change it.We got’a get our shit together to be able to continue the LIFE, what most wish they could be.

  6. Rebel Says:

    Dear SYLM,

    I think this is clearly unconstitutional. I think it is being done to force the Mongols to defend themselves. I think Judge Wright is dumber than dirt. I think he will order the forfeiture of the Mongols indicia if it goes that far. And I don’t think it will get that far.


  7. Alex900 Says:

    “The 44-page Mongol Nation indictment accuses every Mongol of being a criminal because that’s what Mongol means”

    What the hell are these guys smoking? Every Mongol “is a criminal”?

    So every guitar player is a “coke” addict?

    Fine-then EVERY politician is a “on the take” douchebag!
    And every cop a doughnut eating pussy.

    Look whats going on in Australia-
    Australia is looking at Arizona sherrif’s decision to have inmates wear “pink” jumpsuits! The PM wants “bikies” to wear pink to embarrass them?
    Really? WTF is that about?

    SIEG has it correct-”What has been termed “the soft war” is drawing to a close, and the “hard war”, the REAL war, is shaping up”

    Reading articles on whats going on in AUS makes me think of “how” Germany rose to power-first, lets get “these” people, there easy-we pass laws and BANG!..Every MF’r “We” determine as “bad” are now “criminals”!

    shit…all this really messes my with my brain-I mean really-you think some cop is going to stop me from flying a Vet insignia next?
    Yeaa…I can tell ya how thats going to end up! Oh..but that won’t happen will it?

    These asswipes are targeting 1%’s with paper law because they don’t have the BALLS to stand face to face with a man who has nothing left but his “brothers” to count on! And they can’t stand to see anyone make money over something they can’t control!

    F****ng ball scratching hypocrites!

    I’ll tell ya:
    Bikers..1%’s..or 99%’s…doesn’t matter-this shit is JUST starting! Watch, wait and keep your eyes opened!

    I swear..this isn’t the country I bled for!

    L&R to all PH’s Who Have Earned It!

  8. Erkman69 Says:

    It’s time to take a stand,Americans must take this country back, count me in.

  9. SYLM Says:

    Dear Rebel,
    Thanks for your response, I really appreciate it. I just can’t imagine that really happening. This club is my life and without it idk where I’d be in my life.I hope this will soon be put Behind the club..


  10. Phuquehed Says:

    Like I said last year or whenever it was…get a permit to carry, then when the fuckers come to carry out an order to arrest you for this kind of bullshit (wrongful law, etc), fight back. It’ll be a bitch for those with kids and OL’s, but it will be better than those same kids and OL’s seeing you in prison and hearing the pigs, DA’s, news, and law makers lie about how they put away some kind of gang-banger who was within moments of raping and pillaging a small town somewhere and was put in jail for it…*and all you were was a ‘hangaround’ or ‘prospect’ or had a patch and had never committed a crime in your life worse than getting a speeding ticket!

    Even the dumbfuck civilians will eventually have to take notice and wonder why suddenly pigs and bikers are dying right and left and someone will look into it and see that some fucktard gutless worm of a judge and two faggot DA’s made a law making one a criminal for pretty much having the wrong thoughts and for even just *wanting* to be a part of something that just might mean one has found a family that means something for once in their life.

    And this sounds *exactly* like what the asshole judge is trying to bring about – the Thought Police or something akin to a Judge Dredd. He’s gotten too full of himself and listened to too much bullshit and watched too many fucked up movies. This judge needs to walk off the edge of the Grand Canyon so this country can breathe a sigh of relief that the Constitution and Bill of Rights wasn’t shit on by him.

    Oh, and just in case any of the pigs and alphabet soup faggots are reading, here, this will make you have nightmares tonight when you go to sleep because there isn’t a fucking thing you can do about it: Years ago I was so stoned one night I felt I was BOMBED.

    I like seeing films of planes BOMBING north vietnamese scum during the vietnam war.

    Anyone have any good pork recipes for a PRESSURE COOKER?

    Pizza with anchovies is da BOMB!

  11. Paladin Says:

    I can see Bernstein asking Judge Wright to recuse himself from this case, due the rabid and prejudicial statements Judge Wright made on the record in open court regarding this case.

    If somehow, this case were to go against the Mongols, I can’t imagine the verdict not being overturned on appeal. Hopefully; Judge Wright will get verbally spanked by the appellate court in the process.

    Long May You Ride (to those that deserve to),


  12. WARTHOG Says:

    I sure hope you’re right, Paladin. I have never heard of a judge being so arrogant as to give an opinion on a case before ever hearing the arguments. Fuck ‘em.




  13. AVAGOVFFV Says:

    “ALL” patch holders should take serious notice of this and figure out how to pool their resources. Such as putting the Club mouth pieces in the same room, kick start the COC and build a action plan. Don’t wait to see how the Mongols Nation case goes, the time is now. Even if they win on appeal it should never get that far in the first place. Who’s next? Regardless of the past or personal differences if anyone that wears a patch values our life they need to bring this to church and start the conversation.

    What if tomorrow your patch was illegal to possess?

    Viva Los Vagos

  14. Doc Jones Says:

    This goes beyond MC’s. The government is in the process of completely controling all Americans. Has anyone heard of FEMA camps?

    Doc Jones

    Fair Oaks, CA

  15. BadMagic Says:

    Excerpt from “How To Fix The Supreme Court”:

    Reason: When did judges start putting their thumbs on the scale in favor of the government?

    Neily: The idea that judges should try to actively find ways to uphold laws appears to trace its lineage back to a Harvard law professor named James Bradley Thayer, who wrote an influential law review article in the late nineteenth century in which he argued that courts should not strike down laws unless they are unconstitutional beyond any reasonable doubt. Pretty much unless the text of the Constitution just comes right out and says, “this particular law is unconstitutional.”

    There are a lot of problems with that. The first problem is that the Constitution almost never speaks with that level of clarity. If that were really the standard that we wanted the courts to apply, the only function of the courts would be to make sure we never got a 34-year-old president, which is foolish.

    Second, it puts courts and judges in the role of advocate. In other words, they view their job not so much as just making a dispassionate ruling on the constitutionality or unconstitutionality of a given law, but in fact view their role as trying to figure out if there is some way to uphold it. Imagine the difference between a football game in which the referees simply call penalties as they see them, and a football game in which referees say, “when the question is, ‘did the home team commit a penalty?,’ our job is to try and interpret the rule and the facts on the field to find no penalty, if we can do that.” I think everyone can recognize that wouldn’t be genuine refereeing, that would be something quite different, and quite disturbing. But that’s exactly what’s going on in our courts in most constitutional cases today.

    Posted on Reason dot com.


  16. Trip Says:

    @AVAGOFFV This is just another sign of things to come, which means we all need to bring it up to our perspective clubs! Doesn’t matter what club you belong to, or what rag we wear on our backs, we all have the same things in common our lifestyles we choose to live, and the government is slowly but surely trying to strip all of our rights away from us. If we continue on this path I’m sure we will end up like Australia and other countries. This is something I hoped I would never see in my lifetime or my children’s lives, but it looks like it’s happening right in front of our eyes. We have for to long

  17. Trip Says:

    time sat by and continued on this path. Now if your in a position to make a change I suggest you do it! Thanks again to Rebel for always keeping us in the loop on the goings on in our world! Respects,


  18. mad matt Says:

    If you’re 1% and not III%…you better figure it out.

  19. Butch Says:

    @doc jones
    Maybe former prolific poster here and now strangely silent war hero medal recipient imposter Vince 1%er got nabbed and sent off to a FEMA camp.

  20. Slick Rick Says:

    @11c_infantry and AVAGOVFFV……..I am in total agreement with you both. It’s time the bigger clubs learn to put their differences aside and band together for this fight. To think that it’s only going to affect the club the feds are fucking with right now is absurd.
    This is just the beginning. If all the other clubs big and small sit and do nothing, who’s going to help them when it’s their turn.

    I just had a conversation about this topic with Still Ray the Chairman of our Confederation here in Arizona on Friday afternoon at the ACMC’s annual Riot On The River. We need to figure out how to get a brain trust together. It needs to be comprised of level headed representatives of clubs that also understand what is at stake here. We can write on this blog all day long, in the end it’s like preaching to the choir. Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure Rebel knows that I respect and appreciate all his hard work but we need to make John Q. Public aware of what’s going on. Negative headlines of club against club are not going to facilitate that. We need to be UNITED to stop this brazen attempt at stripping our CONSTITUTIONAL rights.

    The big clubs need to lead by example, especially in this case. I would hope it would have a trickledown effect.

    I would like to suggest the next NCOM meeting as a possibility for this effort. Can someone with clout make this happen?

    Live and Let Live,
    Slick Rick

  21. Paladin Says:

    @ Slick Rick, 11c_infantry, & AVAGOVFFV

    I have been advocating this since I started posting on this site. The writing has been on the wall for quite some time. If the MCs choose not to read it, the Government will be reading it to them.

    The MCs and its members can make one of the following choices: Watch shit happen, make shit happen, or ask “What the fuck just happened?” The time to start making wise choices is now.

    Long May You Ride (to those that deserve to),


  22. THE END IS NEAR Says:

    The problem with the COC is:
    It’s a big fucking joke about getting new clubs to join so they can pay dues and strengthen the bank account.
    Its about a personal injury attorney using the COC meeting for his personal infomercial.
    Its about a clueless fucking kook from ABATE standing their spouting off erroneous information about RFID chips and knife laws like some know-it-all.

    The COC was not formed for this kind of tripe!

    I go to every meeting. Its the same old shit every meeting. More gets accomplished in the parking lot than any meeting ever could.

    We need to get on it before we get got.

  23. stroker Says:

    @SlickRick and other interested parties:

    I will be bringing this developing mockery of American justice to the Regional NCOM Convention to be held this coming Saturday in Sacramento. I agree with most here on the need to do something. For myself, I think it’s time COC’s and Clubs, and bikers in general begin a PR campaign nationwide, bringing to light what’s happening in our world, to the general public. It will be a tough sell, requiring more than one ad campaign. But to me, it seems we need the public to rally behind us, and THAT is much easier said then done. If we can convince them that bikers/clubs are only the tip of the iceberg, through hand-outs, mail, internet, radio and tv, and demonstrations, we may do some good. Right now the sheeple don’t much give a fuck about us, so it’s not gonna be easy. But to do nothing is not in my nature.
    I will give ya’ll a report next week, here on this page of our meeting.



  24. OC VAGO Says:

    The fucking stupid ass rice rocket motherfuckers pulling their shit like the now infamous New York story is not going to help us.

    We tell ‘em out here over and over again, “your next”.

  25. Paladin Says:

    For any of the MCs to have any impact on the current state of affairs, the MCs and its members will have to honestly ask and answer themselves some hard questions. Some of which are: 1) are the MCs and its members truly honorable, where their words are their bonds? 2) Can the MCs that have long standing differences between them, forge an agreement that ends the violence? 3) Can the MCs reach an agreement where they respect each others territories? 4) Can the MCs and its members give each other the respect and courtesy they each in turn want to receive?

    If the answer to any of the above is “no”, then all of this talk will be nothing more than that, just talk. And yes, I do have a dog in this fight.

    Long May You Ride (to those that deserve to),


  26. JMacK Says:

    As the America goes, we all know Canada won’t be far behind. Only difference is that when we are getting fucked, someone usually says please. And it’s in metric.

    This shit has got to stop.


  27. whitefxrp Says:

    @ Paladin,
    wise questions,
    will they be answered ?
    a lot of support for all involved would be found if the answer was yes to all..just sayin

  28. Sieg Says:

    Ya know, I’ve said for years, here and out in the real world, that if the mainline patches aligned, shit would change. The FedGoonies would shit themselves if they saw a line of mixed-patches, all riding together.

    And it would be an army the likes of which the world ain’t seen in many moons.

    5 to 1

  29. AVAGOVFFV Says:

    Trip, yeah your spot on man I could not agree more….

    Slick Rick,

    Out of Respect for my Brothers that may feel differently I need to add the disclaimer. I’m not speaking for anyone other than myself nor am I representing any association or entity.

    I don’ t think for a second or am I suggesting Clubs or members forgive / forget past history and I am not saying its time to break bread together or geeeez fuck can’t we all just get along, that would be bullshit. I’m a realist. What I do think is if we as PH’s give a shit about our legacy and desire our Clubs to continue on there needs to be change. That change is the Club mouth pieces / lawyers need to be instructed on the each specific Clubs expected outcome and then meet with one another to create a case plan, then sue.

    Clout? That’s not the issue the issue is resolve and deciding whats important for tomorrow not our shared narrowed view of today, next week or the next run.

    OC Vago, Your exactly right. The people don’t get it they think that once the Clubs are gone life is going to continue on in their world. All the while the repressive agenda of the entire government system is selecting the next group that don’t fit in the new social structure.

    Viva Los Vagos

  30. AVAGOVFFV Says:

    I do sincerely concure Sir…. Well said.

    Viva Los Vagos

  31. OC VAGO Says:×349.jpg


  32. whitefxrp Says:

    OC Vago,
    maybe its just a patchover by another club in Oz,Nah,that would never happen..would it ?

  33. slycechyx Says:

    if any law enforcement officer sees a Mongol wearing his patch, he will be authorized to stop that gang member and literally take the jacket right off his back.’”

    What member would NOT put up a fight to protect their colors? I think the coppers are also counting on assaulting a police officer & resisting arrest.

  34. Paladin Says:


    What OC Vago posted, is a link to a Government patchover.

    Long may You Ride (to those that deserve to),


  35. Meh Says:

    “Has anyone heard of FEMA camps?”

    They are IMO a deliberate hoax and intentional misdirection. (He who astroturfs conspiracy theories can operate real conspiracies with less fear of them being noticed.) When the whole society is turned into a “camp”, there is no escape and little camps aren’t needed.

    “And it would be an army the likes of which the world ain’t seen in many moons.”

    It would smash the Federal strategy of divide and rule. It would reduce incidents the Alphabet Agencies could exploit in the media for self-glorification in their hunt for bigger budgets. It would be genuine political protest that even the ACLU couldn’t deny. Savvy protests documented by (multiple, dispersed for survival and with interlocking fields of view to document attempts to seize/smash them) video cameras could catch pork when they try a WTO-style beatdown.

    It would be interesting to see how the government proposes to confiscate tatooed colors…

  36. Tidesfalls Says:

    I have followed this site for some time now. I rarely post. The vast majority of the time, I am simply entertained with the comments below each post, and of course Rebels writing. Speaking for the 99% (In the immortal words of Groucho Marks: “I wouldn’t want to be a member of any club that would have me”), some of us are aware that an infringement on any citizen’s rights will eventually effect us all. This disease is running rampant throughout all levels of our government and needs an immediate correction. We need to remind ourselves and our leaders that they represent us. They do not rule us.
    Our constitution and bill of rights do not exist as a means for control, but a requirement for the respect of the freedoms we hold dear. It does not allow for manipulation to give a false sense of security, but we have allowed our leaders to do exactly that.
    If you want change, send a clear message – vote them all out. When the people who represent us realize they work for us again, things will change.
    Just my two cents worth.

  37. Trog Says:

    Just a thought here that will probably cause a stir…why are the feds choosing the Mongols as their worst of the worst and first to go after? Another club has a many more unmarked graves and members wearing Filthy Few patches.

  38. Slick Rick Says:

    @stroker……..good luck at NCOM. I wish I could be there. Get the embers smoldering so we can build and spread this like wildfire. Look forward to your report.

    @Sieg…….very well put. That would be a sight to see!

    @AVAGOVFFV…….I’m a realist also. I believe we can all be man enough to realize the long term effects of some unity. Clout? I mean someone that others will listen to…….I’m just the VP of a club in the state of Arizona.

    Slick Rick

  39. Redneck Says:

    Sounds like the same shit the squares have always been trying to pull…
    A patch says “don’t fuck with me” ? What does a badge and a gun say??

  40. FBomb Says:

    John Q. Citizen is convinced, by the government, the news media, and TV shows (“Gangland” and SOA for example) that MC’s are “gangs”….so they won’t care too much if a MC doesn’t exist anymore since they have been told by the so-called authorities that it’ll make the world “safer”.

    What John Q. Citizen doesn’t understand, and NEEDS to, is that this shit won’t stop with Clubs…it never does. What if the government decides another group or organization is “undesirable”? What if the government decides that a political movement is “dangerous”? Where will it end? THAT is what needs to be impressed upon the average American. You’re a member of the Tea Party? What if the government decides that group is causing too many issues and shuts it down? You’re a member of the Lions/Moose/Elks/Freemasons? What if the government decides it disagrees with their principles and decides to shut them down too? That is what Joe Citizen needs to be told.

    Sadly though the only news on this case, and the attack of free association, is what Rebel is reporting…no other news outlet has published anything on it. I think I hear boots goosestepping down the street….

  41. Slick Rick Says:

    @Paladin…….I’m well aware that you have been an advocate of trying to get some unity against the FEDBEAST. How many clubs have to go thru this shit before we band together is the question? It’s our lifestyle that is at stake here.

    I don’t wanna be asking….”what the fuck just happened”?

    Slick Rick

  42. Rahlow Says:

    I’m afraid what makes some 1%, or the fact that 1% may actually be a number that is indicative of actually how many people in this country or even world wide this bullshit is to effect if taken at face value,, is the determining factor if this is to become law or not.
    We must all face the facts that patched or not, there is not enough who live the life or something close to it, for mainstream America to give a damn. Face it, half the god damn country voted in favor of the present administration. And 99% of the country don’t give a shit about one MC or the other, or for that matter Personal Rights and Freedoms.

  43. SS Says:

    Maybe it will take something like this for us to realize who’s the real fucking enemy. No matter how you might feel towards a certain club understand that if they do it to one club your club wont be far from receiving the same treatment. If you play by their (the government) rules you will always loose.

  44. Paladin Says:

    Reducing crime in a neighborhood is a start in changing the way MCs are perceived by the general public… The cop that’s interviewed at the end of the news piece states that even though the residents of the neighborhood feel less safe since the Hells Angels have left, the crime stats have dropped. With a little creativity, you can make numbers reflect anything you like.

    The point is: The numbers carry very little weight when compared to the sense of security that the residents of the neighborhood lost, when the Hells Angels left.

    When you change the way people feel about you, their perception of you changes. If the crime rates dropped in the neighborhoods where the MCs had their clubhouses, it would put a whole new perspective on the “Neighborhood Watch”.

    As the link shows, this kind of stuff becomes news worthy.

    Long May You Ride (to those that deserve to),


  45. Road Whore Says:

    @ Paladin…I agree wholeheartedly!

    Imagine if all of the clubs policed themselves; banded together not only nationwide but worldwide; vigorously promoted positive public relations; mounted a “Citizen Education Campaign;” took on corrupt cops through organized, strength-in-numbers attacks; didn’t trust those who had not proved themselves; put together a monetary war chest to provide the best legal advice and representation; emphasized charity work, toy runs, etc.; became active presences for their own versions of neighborhood watches; in five years time we could turn this thing around!

    Ride Free

  46. Tidesfalls Says:

    @ Road Whore,
    It’s a Nobel idea, but an uphill battle at best. The obvious issue is the perception that one bad apple in the barrel makes the whole barrel rotten. This scenario can and is applied to any and all groups. I believe that most folks do not care much about victimless crimes, but you take a housewife and mother of several kids and beat her to death for being a smart ass, you can expect that “John Q Public” is going to want to stomp you out.
    As a group comprised of descent stand up guys, there is a need to distance yourselves very publicly from these types of actions. That might be a start…

    - Two more cents

  47. FBomb Says:

    Road Whore & Paladin,

    It would take 100% commitment from EVERY single member of EVERY club. Right now the cops can use the animosity between clubs to their advantage. Hell, they’ll have an informant instigate shit between rival clubs, knowing that someone will take the bait, and then the next thing you know they have enough for an arrest or a RICO indictment. Not saying it can’t be done, but it wouldn’t be easy. It MUST be done though, otherwise there won’t be any clubs left, and no one will be safe.

    Peace & Respect (to those that deserve it)

  48. Rahlow Says:

    @ Road Whore,
    No disrespect intended here, and I am not arguing with you or your point of view. I agree with you, but would liek to add that the local chapter of a world wide club I’m associate dwith, does and has done for the last 5 years, a Poker run for the local Childrens Home. It is well received by the supporters and Staff of the Childrens home.
    However the ABC’s are always parked across the street snapping pictures of everyone coming and going, and the Childrens Home is the back ground in most pics, along with the Administrators and supporters of the Home, even the Children who are allowed to come out and see the bikes etc.
    My point is, the community sees the ABC’s snapping pics, following the riders around the city/county, sitting and watching everything, and it has been said by some that a few citizens take that showing of force by the ABC’s as evidence that the club is dangerous and usually up to no good, even though there has never been a problem in this small town or county involving the club.
    And in most every chapter there are those brothers who continue to wish for the club to maintain a lower profile, so your suggestions while advantagous, would take a long time to become the norm, I believe.
    I’m just an ol graybeard who would support more community involvement, to a point at least, but long for the day before internet/cableTV and clubs were not everyday “news” or “entertainment” for the citizen.

    Respect to all deserving.

  49. FBomb Says:


    I think that will NEVER change…the alphabet cops will ALWAYS be on the lookout for MC’s regardless of the amount of charity work that is being done, or the fact that no real crimes have been committed. I’ve said it before, clubs are easy pickings for the cops. Rather than fight against REAL criminals (Mexican drug cartels that are running street gangs in the US for example) they focus on clubs, and paint them in the media to be “dangerous to your safety.” They’d never go after the real criminals mentioned above because those guys will kill their whole family, behead them, and send the heads to them in a bag. I’m sure when SOA became a hit the ATF and DEA creamed themselves, since it’s done nothing but brainwash every Joe Citizen that clubs run drugs, guns, and whores.

    Again, just my 2 cents, and I’d love to see the clubs come together to fight this as one force. There IS strength in numbers, and the enemy isn’t the guy in a different patch, but the guy with a badge IMO.

  50. JMacK Says:


    An MC riding around in a pack or doing boring stuff like hanging around a clubhouse (like 95% of M.C’s do 95% of the time) doesn’t make it easy to get tax dollars to hire more alphabet soup jocks. Take some pics of them being a potential threat to the community and it’s amazing how quick the federal coffers open up. Fucking Dicks.


  51. bigdave Says:

    What happen to “V” the Jackass wannabe POS vince the1%er. Still haven’t heard from the POS since people called him on his fake made up medal.

  52. Rahlow Says:

    Fbomb and JmacK, I agree 100%. As as wise man said, “It is what it is”..
    Respect to the deserving

  53. Jim666 Says:

    FBomb Says:
    October 24th, 2013 at 7:30 am

    the enemy isn’t the guy in a different patch, but the guy with a badge IMO.

    Well said

  54. Dr. Sardonicus Says:


    You won’t see him around here no more. He got nailed dead-to-rights,
    no possible recourse. I’m embarrassed for him.

    Too bad I was beginning to like the guy, but he committed a cardinal sin.

    Anyway, it’s a good example of a self-regulating comments board and freedom of speech. The freedom to fuck up royally.

    Just my two-cents.

  55. Breeze Says:

    I’m not a PH, but this grab scares the livin’ bajeezus out of me. I heard on fox that the “tea party” and “evangelical Christians” are now starting to be considered as “threats” to the nation…Imagine that….Jesus Freaks as enemies of the state…Pretty soon it’s going to be 1917 all over again ! Anyone who doesn’t agree 100% with the regime in power will be silenced by any means necessary ! Am I an alarmist ?

  56. OC VAGO Says:

    and so why hasn’t the Catholic Church been RICO indicted? Talk about an organized crime syndicate for over 2000 years!!

  57. Rahlow Says:

    Breeze,,,alarmist no, Realist yes.

    Respect to the deserving

  58. Tim D Says:

    First the unconstitutionally banning of club colors of MC clubs, then the most likely the banning of the Girl scouts insignia, full blown communism, “A ONE WORLD ORDER!!” THATS WHAT I SEE COMMING DOWN THE PIKE, I do know we Americans are getting real pissed off, and its not only the MC clubs that are getting pissed off, man am I glad we have the 2nd amendment!! Lord help US real true American’s and MC clubs!!

  59. Road Whore Says:

    @ Dr. Sardonicus: I was beginning to like VINCE 1%er too! Damn. I miss his rants. LOL I just can’t believe he would be disingenuous over something so sacred and important and something so easily verified. Well, hell. Next somebody’s gonna tell me there’s no reason to believe in Santy Claus anymore either.

    @ Rahlow: I agree…realist. It’s getting to be a scary fucking world out there!

    @ OC VAGO: I agree with you 100%!!! (I would have said “amen,” but…LOL) And how about Wall Street…one of the largest organized criminal enterprises going. As well as the federal government, and…

    Ride Free

  60. FBomb Says:

    All right everyone, quit making fun of people’s medals. Hell I bet he won his medal with a “V” on it when he was the door gunner on the Space Shuttle…

  61. Sieg Says:

    Vince…well, it’s possible he misspoke, or just disremembered. If so, he can resurrect himself pretty easy, all he has to do is to send Rebel his real name, and that can be matched to a list. (Click on my name) I’d say if he can’t do that, he’s toast, but that’s just me.

    5 to 1

  62. bigdave Says:

    I got my 1st “V” medal when I was 15 and that was for my 1st Vagina and since then I have gotten many more. Lol

  63. Mike 184 Says:

    I got mine for not wearing the asbestos suit while pulling butts on the flamethrower range… Ok that was not right…..

  64. YYZ Skinhead Says:

    Where did “V” get outed for claiming fake decorations? I must have missed something.

    YYZ Skinhead

  65. WARTHOG Says:


    It was originally posted on the Special Memory Sentencing thread. Somehow it drifted over here.

    Speaking of “V’s”…where’ve you been BigV? Hope all is well with you and yours.




  66. rollinnorth Says:

    What Breeze referred to:

    “Soldiers attending a pre-deployment briefing at Fort Hood say they were told that evangelical Christians and members of the Tea Party were a threat to the nation and that any soldier donating to those groups would be subjected to punishment under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.”

    It’s getting stranger every day.

  67. Jim666 Says:

    Road Whore Says:
    October 24th, 2013 at 12:33 pm
    @ Dr. Sardonicus: I was beginning to like VINCE 1%er too! Damn. I miss his rants. LOL I just can’t believe he would be disingenuous over something so sacred and important and something so easily verified.

    Am I missing something here ?????????????????????????????????

  68. Va.Bob Says:

    Jim666@it’s a “Stolen Valor”thing.Especially reprehensible around this blog.As Dr.SARS says,easily verified in this internet age.

  69. Jim666 Says:

    @ Va.Bob

    I understand what it is but what im missing is what does that have to do w/ Vince 1%er ?

  70. Breeze Says:

    @Jim666 I believe that Vince 1% has purported himself to have won a medal that he really didn’t win.

  71. Dr. Sardonicus Says:

    @Jim666 –

    I think the only thing missing here is Gunnery Sgt. Vince 1%er. It’s been several days since he got called on the carpet, but we haven’t heard from him. Now to be fair, he may be indisposed away on business or (hopefully not) locked up or something. It’s possible that would prevent him from stating his position – and everyone should have that opportunity no matter how guilty they might look. Who would know about that better than us?

    So, for me, the jury’s still out – although he’d have to have one hell of an explanation for the “V” “mix-up.” I hope he does.

  72. Road Whore Says:

    @ Jim666:

    Here’s the statement that Vince made:

    “VINCE 1%er Says:
    October 19th, 2013 at 4:12 pm
    @One Eye :
    Yes Discretion IS the Better part of Valor (Valour is the British spelling) and my Silver Star I Earned during my Service in the USMC has the *V* Device in it’s Center. but I Digress…….”

    According to others in the thread there and according to the Internet site, The Stars and Stripes:

    The “V” Device
    In 1944, military officials decided to create a special “footnote” to the Bronze Star by authorizing a tiny brass “V,” for valor, that could be attached to the ribbon. The device, also known as “V” device, Combat V, or Combat Distinguishing Device, is authorized by all the services. The “V” is used as an attachment to a defined set of awards and decorations at or below the level of the Bronze Star. The Medal of Honor and Silver Star never include a “V” device, because valor is implicit in the award itself.

    So folks are saying that VINCE 1%er was disingenous regarding his claim to his medal.

    I said that all he’d have to do is post a photo to prove his claim, or, as others have suggested above, allow his name to be compared to a medal winners list.

    Since others “called him out” on his alleged deception we have not heard from him since.

    Ride Free

  73. Road Whore Says:

    @ Dr. Sardonicus: I agree…I hope he does have a good explanation. I miss him. :)

    Ride Free

  74. Phuquehed Says:

    Okay, now I too understand what happened, *but*…I understand that service medals are often very different for each branch and they change often through time.

    Is it possible that that description of the *1944* medal is not the same anymore? Is it still the same for every branch?

    Just throwing out some general questions too because I think it’s too easy to get mixed up sometimes with what ones medals has/had on them or is/was connected with it.

    For example…during my WesPac in ’81, we did two separate boat-people saves. I thought we would get a star on the ‘Humanitarian Medal’ for every ‘save’ after the first. When I asked a year or so ago if I could have the Navy send me my medals, they sent a paper telling me what medals I had earned but also that unless you get an honorable discharge you can’t have the medals at all. It also showed me that there is no star at all for the humanitarian medal no matter how many humanitarian things one does.

  75. FBomb Says:

    I hope he has a good explanation too…I really liked his posts and agreed with most of what he wrote.

    @Phuquehead, I had something similar with the Army records center. They couldn’t find my actual Army DD214 to verify something, then told me I’d have to appear in person before a “records review board” to get it straightened out. Come to find out they were looking in the old records and not the new ones, but it took 6 months and about 100 phones calls and the general run-around to get it figured out.

  76. Mike 184 Says:

    Hey, sometimes you get a person pinning ribbons and doing promotions that is not Uniformed. One time saw a young guy get Meritoriously Promoted to Sergeant by the Secretary of the Navy, the “Honorable” Mr. Rumsfeld. That guy was all messed up and had no idea what he was doing.

    Sad part of that story, saw that kid get booted for popping on a piss test like 3 months later. Dumbass was in the field???? My life is a lot different now, but damn he lost a lot there.

  77. Mike 184 Says:

    Might need to clarify there… Sometimes these guys will say that someone rates something they didnt. Just like your buddy may tell you back at the barracks that “oh man where is your V? We get a V cause it was for Valor and COmbat.” Just saying shit happens.

    Now this one time we were in LA for Liberty and went to the Palace (I think). Huge club that used to be theatre. Anyway this joker was wearing an unbuttoned Marine Dress Blue coat into the place…. Commence ass whooping operations!!!

  78. WARTHOG Says:


    Wiki info on the Combat V:




  79. WARTHOG Says:

    As Sieg pointed out before, the Silver Star is only awarded for combat operations and it would be redundant to put a Combat V on one.

    For the record, I miss Vince 1%er’s rants as well, but even with an apology his credibility will be woefully lacking. If you’ve truly earned a Silver Star you would never forget how, where, and if you’ve earned more than one. An old friend of mine earned a Silver Star in Vietnam by taking out a series of foxholes and bunkers in an ambush. Had a gook throw his gernade back at him and pock marked his face and knocked out his two front teeth. Didn’t stop him from taking out two more bunkers. Not to mention it took the army nearly twenty years to replace his teeth. I asked him what possessed him to do that and he said if he didn’t they were all going to die. Again, not something you would ever forget or be confused about.




  80. Mike 184 Says:

    Great story Warthog. My stepdad was Vietnam Vet, Purple heart.. He really didn’t give 2 shits about anything he received over there. He never wanted to talk about it unless it was with someone who served with him. Luck for me the assistant principal at my highschool was over there with him. When I got in trouble he’d come in to school and shoot the shit for a hour or two and I would get by with the threat of an ass whooping.

    Amazing to think about what they had to do and the bullshit that they came home to.

  81. Jim666 Says:

    ok all understood now thnx for clearing that up. Vince let me to beleave he is in a club I know a lot of members of and that club does have a few named Vince wheather it any of the members I know or not I have no Idea, and if indeed he is in that club and he lied about this my guess is he will loose his patch over this too, and Im w/ the rest here I enjoyed Vincis posts.
    Hopfully this is just a big misunderstanding. time will tell

    respects Jim

  82. Sieg Says:

    I hate to see someone step on their dick, but it happens.

    Silver Stars don’t get handed out like Purple Owies. For an enlisted rank to be awarded one in-country wasn’t common…usually saved em for the ticket-punchers.

    Just to gice an idea, there have been somewhere between 100, 000 & 150, 000 Silver Stars, total, awarded from its inception during WWI and now. That’s out of roughly 30, 000, 000 who served.

    I’m purt sure any Gunny got that laid on him would remember it.


    There hasn’t been any change in the award since it was first made. There has NEVER been a V-device attached to it in any branch of service. A Marine would know that the only device attached to the award would be a star for subsequent awards.

    Hate to say it, but I don’t see a mix-up being to blame here. Not somethinv to play with, considering how many have given it all for that award.

    But that’s just my opinion.

    5 TO 1

  83. Cynthia Garcia supporters Says:

    All of the meetings and agreements, toy runs and good PR in the world won’t overcome what was done to this mom by members of a major club, at a clubhouse, and its perception by the public.

  84. Rebel Says:

    Dear Cynthia Garcia supporters,

    My sympathies for your loss. Ms. Garcia was murdered by a meth crazed psychopath who was then recruited, protected and paid by the ATF. I have been told, but have been unable to confirm, that Ms. Garcia’s survivors were then tricked into signing a document in which they agreed not to sue the ATF or DOJ.


  85. Roxanne Says:

    Rebel, you’ve got it wrong honey. Cynthia Garcia was beaten unconcious by THREE meth-crazed psychopaths AND patch holders at their clubhouse in Phoenix. She was then thrown in a trunk and driven to the Arizona desert where they stabbed her repeatedly and tried to decapitate her .
    Her murder went unsolved until one patch holder started feeling human and confessed to the details of her murder. He was then given immunity for his part in a crime that would probably still be unsolved had he not come forward.

  86. Rebel Says:

    Dear Roxanne,

    I suspect you are close to the case and the last thing I want to do is disrespect you by arguing with you. I understand it was a tragedy. I am sorry. Michael Kramer did it.


  87. IRISHPUNK Says:


    Another article in the SGV Tribune today about this case, quoting you in a few paragraphs.

  88. Meh Says:

    “If you’ve truly earned a Silver Star you would never forget how, where, and if you’ve earned more than one.”

    Roger that. If you are the type to SAY you have it, you should be able and willing to provide the citation since those puppies are public record anyway. If you are being anonymous, then you don’t say shit about awards and decs ‘cept the ones they handed out for showing up and you laugh at those. Thou shalt not wave thy accolades unless thou are delighted to prove they are legit because otherwise thou art shitting on the cred of veterans who earned theirs and further, on the legacy of those who would have but died alone uncited.

    Anyway, here’s another delightful nugget from the US surveillance state. I’ll presume Oz has something similar, but now you can (and given total surveillance, should assume you will) be busted based on warrantless monitoring. Your telephone calls BTW also go over the internet.

    Note the Feds are using an Islamovermin stalking horse since they are even further down the food chain of public sympathy than bikers.

  89. YYZ Skinhead Says:

    Here is one in the Press-Telegram:

    YYZ Skinhead

  90. Sin cal Says:

    This is from the Dailey news.

    “The current case against the word Mongols is being prosecuted by Chris Brunwin and Steven Welk, the same two guys who prosecuted (Cavazos),” said Davis, author of “Out Bad: A True Story About Motorcycle Outlaws.”

    “I have been following that case for five years, and the idea has always been to find a way to ban motorcycle clubs in the U.S. This particular incarnation of what is really one long war of attrition is about driving the Mongols out of business by forcing the club to defend itself over and over against successive prosecutions.”


  91. Meh Says:

    YYZ Skinhead’s post is VERY interesting.

    Note the US government has been doing it’s best to coerce all foreign countries it trades with to conform to US “intellectual property” law, ostensibly for business reasons. While I don’t doubt the greed behind the law, it also sticks the camels nose under the tent for other prosecutions.

    Combine the goals of “law enforcement” (barf) and IP protection and any countries signing on to what looks like boring reciprocal IP protection can also make their own citizens liable for breaking whatever US courts decide is the law.

    Tiny Antigua is displaying some balls:

    If flying your patch is in violation of US IP law, that can mean the Man has global reach to ban it and your local Quislings will be on that like a fat chick on a Krispy Kreme.

  92. YYZ Skinhead Says:


    Great article. “The people they should be angry at is their own government that got them in this mess. Because we didn’t get them in this mess, the American government did.”

    Fergot to add that Rebel is in the Press-Telegram article.

    YYZ Skinhead

  93. jj solari Says:

    this is how meaningless DC has become when it is going to make a judicious effort to prevent people from having words, letters, and cartoons on their clothing. eventually they will be removing tattoos from peoples’ flesh. because there is not a bureaucrat on earth who does not have the heart and soul of a sociopath. the more they can crush your spirit the more bold they become. this is the land of the free about as much as i am in demand as a fuck partner by paris hilton.

  94. Sieg Says:

    JJ, you remember the story in ER back about 77 or so, PH gets out the joint, had his ink taken off, his Patch burned, etc.

    5 TO 1

  95. VINCE 1%er Says:

    I Received that Commendation and In Writing on My Framed Papers: With Valor & Honor Beholden and In Accordance with The USMC Doctrine and in Alignment with Department of the Navy : Awarded To Vince ******
    ***** *******
    I See that I have many detractors Here-and also assholes that want to argue.
    I Earned and Accepted the Honors in accordance with my Service to my Country.I’m Proud and OK with WHO and WHAT I AM.
    I Make NO Apologies to Anyone Here(with the exception of Rebel who allows Me to Post to his website).
    My Respects to all Members HERE who served such as Myself.
    To All others:
    RESPECT IS EARNED,Ignorance is Bliss….
    My Realm,world & Life are Pretty Good(Thank You God)……
    I’ve Never disrespected Anyone Here…..but My detractors,Enemys and naysayers are now on My : FUCK YOU Dude List.

    thats about all you’re worth…..
    Respect to The RED & WHITE.
    Vince 1%ER

  96. Dago1%er Says:

    I truly believe we all need to pull our resources together. Being part of a 1% club makes it a bit harder gathering up the other 1% clubs in the area tho. Not that we don’t get along..but if you know anything about this kind of life, then you know what I am talking about. I want nothing more then for all us to get along and put the govt in check. I just don’t think it will be so easy. Yes…the other 99% can rally and pull together…and maybe that’s what needs to happen. Something needs to happen or we all may end up becoming a dieing breed.


  97. Dingo Says:

    The problem in Australia is that the clubs lost their way.Massive recruitment of new members who aren’t bikers to boost numbers.They loaded up with people of middle eastern descent who are nothing short of street thugs in Mercs and Beemers wearing Nikes.They have ruined the 1% life there and now every motorcyclist has to deal with the backlash.The plain truth is that these Nike Bikies don’t know a coil from a plug and can’t ride for shit.

  98. OC VAGO 1%er Says:

    @ Dago1%er
    You are absolutely correct. Check out what’s happening in the So Cal COC.

  99. South Sider Says:

    Haha So much for being “outlaws” they ended up rats anyways there own president was a rat and all the Mongols PC in jail anyways haha lames

  100. Alex Johnson Says:

    I find it ironic..that these clubs are crying about their civil liberties being violated..when they have gone around for decades violating the civil rights and freedoms of others.
    I have seen it with my own eyes..forcing a mom and pop club to close down and not wear their colors under the threat of violence. ..beating a guy up at a bar cause he spoke against them talking to his lady…there is a saying that there is all ways someone bigger than you..and the outlaw bikers have found that person the U.S. goverment..I fought for this country and I believe in the rights of all people..including the biker community..but really your gonna cry about being bullied and picked on…when you yourselves have done it for reep what you all I have to say on that…now as for the weak as case the goverment has to take the patch anf it is weak..and if wright decides against the club then yes I to believe it will be over turned in appeal..but what everyone is missing is this just isn’t an attempt to take the patch away…but more of an attempt to financially break the club keep court paying lawyer fees ad such…to discourage new membership..clubs have run ramped for years…with no care or concern about other peoples rights…so I laugh at the crying going on now about their rights being violated and they are being violated I don’t disagree with that…but you get what you deserve..1% ers are not known for being law abiding citizens that is why you are 1% ers…

  101. Slick Rick Says:

    @ Alex Johnson…….are you going to be laughing when the US Gestapo has achieved their goal of stripping all the patches from across the country(in the interest of national security) and they need a new group to pick on to justify their budgets? Laugh Out loud when they come after your bowling team or your brothers down at the Elks Lodge or whatever groups your condescending ass belongs to. They are already labeling one of your groups as “enemies of the state”. You being a “veteran” makes you an enemy because chances are you possess combat skills and experience and were welcome to use them against foreign and domestic enemies. You’re not on the team anymore so you are on a list of potential recruits by right-wing extremists…….that makes you an enemy. DHS says you are a potential terrorist. Wake the fuck up and stand for the liberties you served for. Don’t pick and choose groups who you feel are worthy of having these liberties. That makes you one of them. Thank you for your service.

    @ South Sider……are you a PH? If you are its exactly that kind of narrow minded rhetoric that keeps clubs from being able to UNITE for the cause. I’m not saying being buddies or pals. But just coming together as MEN do when there is injustice occuring.

    Live & Let Live,
    Slick Rick

  102. Freeman Says:

    @ Alex Johnson

    Go fuck your self the government of any so called civilized country as done far worst in the last century then any mc 1%er or not, hell religions have done TONS of really despicable and horrifying shit, a war is when the government TELLS you who the enemy is, a revolution is when you figure it out for yourself.

  103. FF Says:

    Ya know, I’m getting real sick and tired of scumbags qualifying their spew and psychobabble with “I’m a veteran”.


    That’s number one. Second of all, the average person NEVER ONCE ENCOUNTERS A 1%er MC member. That’s never, as in NEVER.

    You cross paths with 1%ers when you go looking for them.

    Anybody who thinks the amount of attention and the resources and money pissed away by our federal, state and local PIG DEPARTMENTS to go after and persecute MC’s is a worthless POS who doesn’t even warrant a civil response.


    Eat shit and live, suffer, THEN FUCKING DIE.

  104. Alex Johnson Says:

    As I stated I agree that the MC’s rights are being violated. ..I don’t agree in punishing all for the actions of few are wrong…I agree fuck the goverment…how ever I did not go looking for 1% ers…I went to a local bar with my wife and came out to find two gentlmen harrassing my wife and when I approached I was told to back off then was stabbed in put in the hospital…by these two like I said before..I think it is funny that you all are crying about big brother bullying you around…because you feel violated so I say FUCK YOU! I have 4 holes in me from your so called brethren. ..may be if the 1% world didn’t go around terroizing and bullying…like the guy last year in pomona who was beat up by a 1% club for wearing the wrong shirt…
    Obam and Biden can go eat a giant dick…the political parties all should be tried for crimes against the people and shot by firing squad…that still doesn’t change the.fact that the 1% er community crying about being bullied is a joke…and last time I checked the elks club doesn’t blow up other people or shoot other people. ..and for the record I belong to the American Lw gion and the VFW…as for me being a threat to this country because if my service…I agree…but I’m not crying about it…I write letters in protest…but I also don’t go out anf commit crimes then bitch when I get caught…FREEDOM is for all people…so why would I have to get permission to wear a patch from anyone..why do 1% er bikers have the right to tell someone else they can’t wear that patch or shirt around here….may be 1% er community would have more support if they were shooting each other in laughlin, reno, sturgis, and so on…as for cops fuck the police they are as crooked as most criminals…i served this country proudly and will defend the constitution…to this day for all peoples rights…but im sorry i dont feel sorry for a group of men who built their reputation off intimidation and fear…i dont believe criminals should have rights…and i believe in an eye for an eye….

  105. Sieg Says:

    Another dickweed imavet troll.

    IF you got shanked outside some slopchute, you earned it. You took your wife to a place where scooter tramps hang-out, then left her alone on the sidewalk in front of the place…the fuck, are you retarded, or just tryina spin up a little cred?!?!?!?

    Wah wah wah…I wanna wear a patch I didn’t earn. Well watdafuk! Wear that bad boy and deal with whatever comes down the pike. Or wear a pairof jump boots with yer drawers bloused in one of the jernts outside the gate at Benning. Tell those nice young men that imavet and I can wear whatever I want.


    5 TO 1

  106. Phuquehed Says:

    Another bitch telling lies and unable to figure out that (*if* it’s actually true what happened to him) just because one or two people do something bad doesn’t mean the whole crowd is exactly the same. Notice he doesn’t mention a club name, yet he supposedly got stabbed by PH’s.

    Johnson, you’re a lying shit-stain and more than likely a fucking pig just trying, like other scum pigs have tried, to justify why you and other pigs are so willing to step on the Bill of Rights and American citizens, who’ve harmed far less people in 60 years than the pigs have done in *HALF* that time.

    Get back to your pig circle-jerk, the fed faggots are missing their pivot man.

  107. Stevo Says:

    Dear Imavet,

    Did you read the Ciccone/Cavazos rat-propaganda tome and get inspired to be a cunt?


  108. Paladin Says:

    Alex Johnson,

    Unless there’s a very compelling reason, 1%ers don’t pull a Jacques Cousteau (suddenly, out of nowhere, the 1%er appears).

    Bikers, 1%ers, etc. tend to frequent bars that are “biker friendly”. So, the reality is that you and your OL were at a neighborhood “biker bar”. Seeing an unescorted lady standing outside any bar is somewhat unusual. The two 1%ers were probably asking her why she was standing outside alone and if she was okay. Then you came out through the front door, allowing your Bulldog mouth to over run your Pekinese ass, which then caused you the lose of some hydraulic fluid.

    So, without further ado, I hereby nominate you for the Budweiser Award. Do I hear a second?

    Long May You Ride (to those that deserve to),


  109. rollinnorth Says:

    Being the Christmas season and all, here is a friendly piece of advice for you, Alex Johnson: STFU!


    Respect, to those…

  110. Alex Johnson Says:

    As well spoken as these fine upstanding citizenns are in reguards to my statements obviously they need to learn how to read…because for exception for syaing you are all jokes which is being proven by your remarks…and by the way proving my point by telling me to stfu and so…I would rather wear bloused pants and be stationed at Ft. Benning Ga. Or servung in Afganistan. ..than be a dirt bag cry baby…who hides behind false internet names…that only read what they want…who probably didn’t even serve this country to deserve the rights and freedoms that they stomp all over on so they can wear leather like something out of the village people whoes name should be Barbra…let me see most Mc’s get mad if you call them a gang..yet they fight over property that isn’t theirs…if you tell them to back off your wife because you had to go to the rest room you get beat up or stabbed….the reason why the patch will be taken away is because the MC has retarted and simply minded morons like the people showing their asses supporting them…no I am not a cop..but you morons will threaten and bully on a site that is for sure monitored by them…it is jack asses like you is why the rest of us are having our freedoms stomped on by a bullshit and tyrantical government…sorry if I’m using to big of words for you…so now that I lowered myself to your levels so you might understand how stupid you all sound…all anyone has to do is cite the constitution…and all this bullshit will be over turned…once again this has nothing to do with shutting any club down….how do you keep someone down then keep them broke…and on the run…much like a chess game think 3 steps ahead anticipate the move of the feds and go around it….rebel..I tell you your followers have gone down hill..when they say it is the victims fault..and not the fault of the big bad biker’s fault…

  111. Slick Rick Says:

    @Alex Johnson……’s not your big words that are hard to read. Rather it’s your run on sentence and lack of knowledge on how to use punctuation that makes your writings hard to understand.

    Maybe you should have thanked those two gentlemen who watched out for your wife while you were pissing instead of telling them to “backoff” and you wouldn’t have been given a lesson about being polite. However….I’m sure you’ve replayed that unfortunate incident in your mind thousands of times wondering what you could have done differently to avoid that outcome.

    Live & Let Live,
    Slick Rick

  112. Tooj Says:

    Dear Alex Johnson.

    I’ll give back story to avoid assumptions. I am an Independent. Always have been and may always be. I will not question your story, it is yours. Your latest post gives a slight bit more detail that begins to clarify.

    You wrote: “..I don’t agree in punishing all for the actions of few are wrong…I agree fuck the goverment…how ever I did not go looking for 1% ers…I went to a local bar with my wife and came out to find two gentlmen harrassing my wife and when I approached I was told to back off then was stabbed in put in the hospital…”

    Followed a day later with: “yet they fight over property that isn’t theirs…if you tell them to back off your wife because you had to go to the rest room you get beat up or stabbed….”

    I’m thinking there is a lot more to the story but that would digress from my point. It seems to be that you are DOING (“punishing all for the actions of few” You wrote it) for something that happened between four people: your wife, two bikers and you.

    You are STILL living as a victim and folks can smell that through how you express yourself. You’re the guy walking around going, “Who’s the mark?”, all the while leaching blood into the water.

    So you hop on a site that is known to have 1%ers reading, etc. and proceed to call the entire general group a bunch of whiny babies. Do I have it straight so far?

    Yes, I believe that if I was having my peer group stereotyped over your personal experience followed by a rant of disrespect, then I might just tell you to go get stuffed. What’s wrong with that?

    You can claim that you are justified in disrespecting the folks on this site over what two others did to you, but I would hardly call the replies here stupid as compared to your initial foray. (Nor the continued attempts at insults….)

    Be glad you chose to do this via the internet instead of taking this approach in person. Stabbing wouldn’t seem quite so bad, I’d wager, if you did.

  113. rollinnorth Says:

    Merrily, it trolls along, trolls along, trolls along…
    Time to go back to ignoring Alex Johnson and the rest of the trolls.


  114. Slick Rick Says:

    @rollinnorth………..I concur.

  115. Stevo Says:

    Dear Imavet,

    Before lecturing people on their intelligence level may I suggest you learn the difference between ‘to’ and ‘too’?


  116. Panhead Says:

    @ Alex Johnson,

    In our world most everyone is armed. It’s assumed that you are too. You are not allowed to move towards me quickly, to rush me. You can stand off 5 feet and rant. I may or may not fuck you up. But to rush me is to get stabbed or shot. Again, I assume you have a weapon and mean to injure me. Or worse. YOU must consider that I am armed and what the consequences of your rude behavior are going to be.

    You don’t know how often we go into bars and one of the local bad asses, after a few drinks, thinks that we don’t look so tough and looks for an excuse, any excuse to get loud and aggressive. To push.
    I’ve seen it a hundred times.

    That’s what you did, isn’t it? You moved quickly towards those two bikers in a threatening manner. Loud talking, gesturing? It was your fault Alex. Accept it.
    All of this other garbage you are spewing is cover for your mistake. It was self defense.
    He poked you Alex to get you off of him. He could have killed you. You are a lucky man.

    Run along now.


  117. Phuquehed Says:

    Ten bucks says the pussy’s OL would tell a different story, one more along the lines of “Two hunks were sweet talkin’ me and then my husband came out wiping his hands on his pants ’cause his dick is so small he pees on most of his fingers, and proceeds to tell these two nice guys that he was gonna kick their asses for talking to me…which would be pretty hard for him to do since the ten-year-old kid on the street whooped on him just the other day. I was embarrassed but before I could tell my shit-stain of a husband to shut the fuck up, he puffed up in front of one of the two guys and shoved and that, was the last aggressive move my asshole hubby did that night.”

    Oh, and I second Paladin’s ‘Budweiser Award’ for the asstard.

  118. Freeman Says:

    Alex your full of it and talk like a god damned brainwashed sheep, your claims of being stabbed because you went to the restroom is bogus like the rest of your charabia, you said ”if you tell them to back off your wife because you had to go to the rest room you get beat up or stabbed” well son did you get beat up or stabbed? its rather vague, and getting more vague the more you talk, other thing is, its proven by writing analysis, someone using … to end most of their phrases, the phrase prior to … is most probably a lie, you sure do like those 3 little points don’t ya.

    Fuck off and take your bullshit somewhere else, and oh, happy holiday’s …

  119. Panhead Says:

    @ Alex

    Now that we are all friends here, can we see a picture of your wife? Do you have one of her posing on a motorcycle?


  120. uncle don Says:

    Hey Alex, if you don’t have a picture of your wife posing on a bike mabe I could send you one. Nude of course.

  121. Alex Johnson Says:

    @Slick Rick…point well taken..however I didn’t tell them to back off..they told me to back off…when I stood my ground I got jumped by to cowaeds and then stabbed…I incident is not a rare accurance…and I am not new to this site…I have followed this site for years…again I’m not agreeing with the political parties of Washingtom nor do I support any agency like the ATF or NSA and so on…I am just saying if you choose a life you must accept the views of the people around you..
    Example how many young boys have been molested by catholic priests..does this make all priests guilty of this crime..NO it does not however that does not mean I am sending my son off to catholic school…guilty by association..

    I to ride and have for 35 years..I go on runs and poker rides…and so on..I am tattooed head to toe..and I get accused all the time of being shadey or a criminal…but I accept that cause I chose to look this way…

    I have never desired to be a part of a club any club mom and pop or 1%..but I do understand the desire to belong…

    No one on this site can argue that most clubs in this world haven’t earned their reputations of violence…intimidation..and fear..

    There are stories all over main stream media as well as here..biker news and so on of atracks and not all done by 1% clubs.

    Example outlaw pigs a cop club attacking a Hells Angel and shooting him in a bar at sturgis..
    You call what I’m righting disrespectful to the majority of the followers here on this site..and that I am lucky I’m doing it via internet vs in person…

    So my question is then aren’t we all doing the same many of you are going to washington and protesting..writting letters..or writting the judge…probably very few..

    I am not playing or still being the victim…I’m stating my opinion. .which all opinions are like ass holes they all stink..

    And of course I am sorry for my lack of proper arrangement with my posts never been really good at witting..

    So with that I will end my rant as it was called and end with this..if you all want to stop the feds and the police from fucking with…then join forces and be one giant gang LIKE the feds are and the cops..untied you will succeed apart you will fall…

  122. stroker Says:

    @ Alex Johnson:

    I’ve read all your posts above, and all the replies. I’m not going to get into name calling or bashing you. I AM going to try (one more time) to educate someone who doesn’t seem to understand why we are so protective of our patches (and, if you’re a regular reader like you say you are, you KNOW what I’m about to say here, has been said many times over by myself, and others on this site).
    Just throwing a new patch on your back and strutting your stuff in any given town, anywhere, is going to ruffle feathers with those who already wear a patch in that own.
    OK…..ya with me so far?
    Why? Because usually, the patch-holders in that town have a very real interest in who starts putting a design on their back, that may or may not be an ok joe. Maybe the new patch guy does something stupid, and pisses off old lady Matilda, who can’t really tell one patch from another. The cops ask her who dunnit, and ask her if it was (insert local club’s name here) and she says yes, Now the local club is getting heat for something that new patch guy did.
    Ya still with me?
    Now in our culture, new patch guy is sought out, and made aware of the situation, i.e. ya don’t disrespect those who’ve established themselves in any given town by throwing a new patch on your back, without first giving a little respect to those who’ve gone before. It’s as simple as that. By saying “fuck you, I do what I want” you’ve just rubbed your arrogance in those guys (or gal’s) faces. That’s our culture. That’s what’s expected. What’s so hard to understand about that? Check in with the local clubs. State your intent. Go to a COC and announce yourself. In most areas, you’ll be given the “nod” or “blessing”, which simply means you’ll be watched for a while, and if ya fuck up, those that’ve gone before will be talking to you. Any further action beyond the “talking” is conjecture, but possible, and maybe probable.
    Show respect Mr. Veteran (I am too), but the idea of starting another club in someone else’s town without giving respect to those already there, is just flat-out disrespectful.

    And…………I’m betting there’s more to your story than just your side.


  123. Snow Says:

    I understand, shit happens and when it does it’s fast and sometimes ugly. Ok I get that, so I’m not saying who’s right and who’s wrong cause I wasn’t there to see it.
    The truth is your 98% more likely to get fucked over by a cop than a I%er. I speak for myself here but I’m sure most would agree, we want to be left alone.
    For the most part this world and the world of what would be called polite society never come into contact with each other. Most here have no interest in the polite society so stay out of it and would appreciate the same consideration.
    We all have places to be and things to do but if your thing brings you into our world remember, Our World Our Rules.
    Support Your Local

  124. Alex Johnson Says:

    To snow and stroker,
    I understand your point and weather you all want to bel it or not I am very familiar with your world..I have had family and friends in the clubs…I will respectfully agree to disagree with some of your points…all I will say is this world belongs to all and freedom is for all to do what they want…but once you start putting rules and stimpulations on freedom then you have lost what so many have fought and died for…thank you for your time and comments

  125. Phuquehed Says:

    You’re a fucking idiot, plain and simple. I’d PLONK you, but you’re so fucking stoopid you’d think I meant I was shitting you out…which would be a good analogy…but I can’t do either, so fuck off and tell your lies and bullshit elsewhere.

  126. Snow Says:

    Ok but you and those like you have to understand we voluntarily give up some freedoms to coexist all the time. Our’s is no different, but men have shed blood, done time, and faced death for our thing so we’re protective of it.
    Being ex military you know no one gets a Bronze Star or Purple Heart just cause you want one. You GOTTA earn it.
    To expect men who earned theirs to just say, well ok do whatever you want to those who haven’t just rubs the wrong way.
    I appreciate the respectful reply and offer you the same.
    Just remember no one changes because someone else things they should.
    Our World Our Rules.
    Support Your Local

  127. chromedome Says:

    Shake my muthafuckin head @alex lolololol……you could have saved yourself alot of trouble by leaving out the insults and all the talk about “crying” bullshit. I wonder if you were “crying” on your way to the hospital after you got poked with the knife you probably pulled out on the twp brother when you found out they were bout to run a train on your ol lady.


  128. WARTHOG Says:


    You are one righteous individual. Much respect.



  129. Siren Says:

    @ FF,

    In my experience of seeing “the average person” encountering a 1%, it usually goes something like this:

    Average everyday soccer mom (at the convenience store, while the club is gassing up): “Puleeeeeze, can I get a picture with you guys, puleeeeeze…?
    Member to another member: “You know it’s going to wind up on her Facebook.” Regardless, they concur. The picture gets taken. She leaves in her mini-van extremely happy.

    Average everyday soccer mom with her teenage daughter (pacing in front of the restaurant window with camera phone in hand). As the club exits the restaurant, soccer mom pleads, “Puleeeeeze can we get a picture with you, puleeeeeeeeeze. It would mean so much to my daughter”. Again, knowing it’s going to wind up on both of their Facebooks, the picture gets taken. The gals leave…giggling and skipping on cloud 9.

    Don’t get me started on what the drunken bar wenches (with boyfriends/husbands) do to get a member’s attention. They make soccer moms look like Mother Theresa.

  130. Sieg Says:

    Ya know, it’s funny…over the last 40 years, I’ve spent more quality time in questionabe slopchutes than I can begin to recall. el-Lay, Detroit, Chicago, TJ, Cartagena, all the garden spots. Biker bars, shitkicker bars, player bars, cantinas full of dealers n whores, and mostly i’ve had a woman with me, girlfriend, wife, ol lady, whatever.

    In all those times, I can honestly say there were only a few that turned out bad from the jump. And those few times, it wasn’t anything personal, the shit was gonna jump, and I happened to be the one it jumped on.

    Moralnof the story is that 99.999% of the time, if you have trouble in a bar, it’s because you asked for it.

    That said, I call bullshit on imavet. Sarge always said “stow yer sea-stories when ya hit port.”

    5 TO 1

  131. Austin Says:

    @ Sieg – Nearly exactly my thoughts. “Moral of the story is that 99.999% of the time, if you have trouble in a bar, it’s because you asked for it.”

    I think you can leave out ‘in a bar’ and call it good.

  132. Freeman Says:

    Bars so many memories, it happened a couple of times id wake up the morning, plug in the water boiler and start remembering the night before, remembering why my ribs hurt, remembering the guy i fought with and suddenly thinking, shit what a dumb ass i was, i just could have this and this and nobody would have lost face and all would have been cool and i wouldn’t be staring out the window feeling bad cause i messed up someones face.

    Fact of the matter is this, yeah 99% of the times it can be avoided, i remember in my early 20′s being in a bar, and seeing 2 patch of a major club come in with this really hot lighly dressed chick, im drinkin having fun listening to the band, later that night the chick is on to me grabs my ass and is coming on hard, i look back at the patch holders, their minding their on business not paying attention and having fun, somehow i just dont trust the chick and dont feel it, so i tell her look ive seen the gorilla you came in with(the guy was huge) i dont want none of it, chick yells in my hear (the music was loud) your a quick one arent you! told her guess you could say that.

    Minutes later a shit storm rises from where those guys where sitting, goes right in front of the stage to where the chick was and some poor sap is being carried out the door to get is ass kicked,had fun, didn’t get any pussy that night, walked out after last call, a bit before 3 am chick was right outside the door with by then 4 members, and she winked at me, guess she had her fun, bottom line is know your fucking surroundings at all times.

  133. Base Says:

    Alex, maybe you should have stayed home. 35 years of riding and you get side ways with not 1 but 2 Patches? Hmmmm, something not passing the smell test.

    Suspect it is more on the lines of what Sieg or Freemen pointed out. Or something similar.
    Respects fella’s.

    As for the now? Just like then you should have stayed home, or left your ol’lady at home. You should have refrained from commenting and just kept reading then you would have avoided insulting and being insulted.

    I always find it ironic that people see the dog shit, step in the dog shit then wonder why their boots stink and blame the dog for it.

  134. Mike 184 Says:

    @ Freeman, yep seen that. Women will turn a good evening to shit in a heartbeat. PH’s chillin and havin fun, chick stirs up drama.

    Then there is the ” well do you know so and so???” And that will always raise an eye, and you never know that status or standing of “so and so”.

    Then there is the ever intelligent person who comes up and tries to score some contraband…. Most do not mess with anything and that comes across directly as an insult….

  135. Glenn S. Says:

    Alex Johnson said: “I am tattooed head to toe..and I get accused all the time of being shadey or a criminal…”

    Hmmm. Sounds like you intentionally affected a certain look but have not lived the life that often results in that look. Maybe the yuppies and citizens think you look, as you put it, “shadey or a criminal” and give you space because of it. Maybe people who have lived a particular life see that look and make a quick assumption that you know the score and might even be a threat. I’m not a member of a club, but I have lived the life. I might have stabbed you too, given possible variations of the circumstances you describe, circumstances that we are hearing only one side of that might include a woman who seeks attention, as many women do, and a jealous man whose wife twists a knot in his gut every time they go out in mixed company.

    Here’s another way such circumstances often end: Half drunk man goes to piss while his half drunk wife waits. With husband out of sight, half drunk wife makes goo goo eyes and smiles at a couple of men. The men smile back at the seemingly unattached woman in the age old mating game that often ends well for all concerned. But woman is not unattached, and hubby appears, sees someone trying to get to know his wife better, and is pissed. He pulls out a pistol and shoots both men. Everybody knows that this shit happens. A lot. You know it, and the club members you encountered knew it too.

    From what I’ve seen, water seeks its own depth. It sounds like you’re a poser so I’m guessing that since you affect a look of something you are not, your wife affects the look she believes is “biker chick”, complete with the “fuck me” posture.

    My unsolicited suggestion to you (since you have probably already broken Glenn’s rule #1 in the relationship area of life, which is not to marry a woman who is going to get you killed or make you kill somebody else) is to take your wife to the tame yuppie franchise biker bars (often found next to Harley dealerships), or some upscale nightclub, in the future. Maybe your wife can flirt with men there and then you can scare them off.

    And if you want payback for the cause of your trouble, maybe you just need to go fuck your wife’s best friend.

  136. Freeman Says:

    @ Mike 184

    Yup they will, and so can assholes mix the two and you get a shitkicker’s bal waiting to happen.

  137. Snow Says:

    Thank you and back to you.
    Hope all is well with the family, spoiling the granddaughter much ? Lol.
    Much repect sent to you my friend
    Support Your Local

  138. Alex Johnson Says:

    Again thank you …I was gonna reply to some points that you have made..but it really doesn’ t
    Matter…it is all for not…because no matter ahat I say or you say..nothing will gods speed and good luck with your fight for the right to fly…

  139. Snow Says:

    Thank you much appreciated, the same to you.
    Just you know, I understand your anger and maybe your justified in it but coming here where no one was involved in your issue with a fuck you attitude will get you bombed just like it would if it happened in a bar somewhere. We may not always agree here but we support each other, well most times anyway.
    Support Your Local

  140. Tooj Says:

    As for the question that keeps getting asked about starting a new club? Why should one approach the established order? This gentleman is definitely no 1%er, but I find the quote pertains:

    “Often, we get stuck on a question for which we can’t find an acceptable answer.
    That is a good time to consider asking a different question.
    Every question is based on some assumptions – usually invisible assumptions that we don’t see, unless we go looking.”
    - Jonathan Lockwood Huie

  141. American Says:

    Lawlessness increases because morality decreases and governments attempt to deal with the increased lawlessness through ever more stringent laws. The solution is to increase morality and empower moral people to defeat lawlessness. Then you don’t need government authoritarianism.

  142. Steve Says:

    support save the patch

  143. Steve Says:

    After Saturday ask your P for a save the patch tee.

    support the save your patch.

    respect, Steve

  144. thomas Says:

    i’m not a biker but i RESPECT your way of life. i’m from holland (netherlands europe) i understand that you’r all vet’s? i like to read about all your live’s but i wanna say the cops are all bastards in every country of the world i mean everybody has problems with the law if it’s right or not. i say stand you’r ground en protect and fight for you’r right. sorry if i’m not welcome here but RESPECT TO YOU ALL,

    thomas (holland)

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