On Stubbs And The Vegas Suit

July 27, 2013

All Posts, Editorials, News

A reader named Trina Amadon posted the following comment at 4:46 this morning in response to a story titled “Stubbs Sues GIITEM.”

“Southern Nevada Confederation of Clubs, Inc., et al, Plaintiffs, vs. Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, a Political Subdivision of the State of Nevada, et al, Defendants,

“July 26, 2013 – all cases DISMISSED

“Hmmm . . . all cases dismissed. Mr. Stubbs is a nothing but a self promoter who used you to try to make a name for himself. A bow tie does not a lawyer make.”

Because Trina Amadon is commenting on a story this page has not yet written, The Aging Rebel believes it is appropriate to run her comment and the reply to it on the front page where readers will not have to hunt for it.

Reaction Is

Dear Trina Amadon,

Yeah, I was looking at this dismissal this morning and I will probably write about it in a story that will include a recent ruling in the New Jersey suit that prohibits the plaintiffs from actually collecting any money – which means the lawyers cannot be paid. I am not ready to write about the Vegas dismissal yet. The judge’s ruling itself is only 14 pages long but I also want to study the motions that led up to it.

Let me just quote this about the legal, technical reason most, but not all, of the suit was dismissed yesterday, which orbits the question of whether the Southern Nevada Confederation of Clubs has “standing” in this matter. The quote is long because I haven’t put the work in yet to make something complicated and technical seem simple.

“The LVMPD Defendants argue that the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Fourteenth, Fifteenth, Sixteenth, Eighteenth, Nineteenth, Twenty-Third, and Twenty-Fourth Claims for Relief must be dismissed because they are not brought by proper plaintiffs. Plaintiffs respond that SNCC is an umbrella organization with standing to bring suit on behalf of its members. However, the Amended Complaint contains no allegations concerning SNCC’s identity, mission, membership, or other details from which the court could determine SNCC’s relationship to the action. Thus, SNCC has failed to meet the pleading requirements of Rule 8.

“Furthermore, SNCC has failed to establish standing even if the court were to disregard the fatal absence of any such allegations in the Amended Complaint. SNCC claims to be an umbrella organization representing both incorporated and unincorporated motorcycle clubs and their members, for the purpose ofpromoting and protecting its members’ common interests, including seeking and promoting fair treatment. An association may bring suit on behalf of its members when: ‘(a) its members would otherwise have standing to sue in their own right; (b) the interests it seeks to protect are germane to the organization’s purpose; and (c) neither the claim asserted nor the relief requested requires the participation of individual members in the lawsuit.’”

I also think it is important to remember that although most of the suit has been dismissed the issue is not yet cooked. In the conclusion of Judge Gordon’s ruling yesterday he wrote:

“Plaintiffs have until August 30, 2013 to amend this case as described above and to file new and separate actions regarding the severed claims and parties. Each of the severed cases will be consolidated before this court for purposes of discovery. The parties to each of the severed actions are required to pay a filing fee.”

As far as Stubbs goes, he has obviously tried to carve out a legal niche representing motorcycle clubs and individual patch holders. I’ve never hired him. I have written about him because he makes news. I honestly can’t yet say whether Stubbs screwed up here. I really can’t. I know for a fact that he really annoys numerous authority figures in Nevada and I know he is basically the one guy facing at least a platoon of opposing lawyers with unlimited funds. I don’t yet know what the odds are that the suit will be modified to overcome the standing issue or whether the suit is dead. I do know that the strategy of trying to end police harrassment by filing civil rights suits looks less effective to me than it did even a week ago.

Clubs and others have hired Stubbs and I think his cases are interesting on a lot of levels. I think the guy has taken on cases nobody else would and he makes news so he has gotten a lot of play here. Just about every day I have to write about something so I don’t think Stubbs has used me anymore than I have used him – if that is your implication. Personally I would rather write about big issues that effect multiple clubs that little stories that are important to fewer people.

I am open to the criticism that I have given Stubbs more credit and importance than he deserves.

I think your comment is timely and important so I intend to run it both here, where it might be easier for you to find, and on the front page.

Thank you for commenting,



24 Responses to “On Stubbs And The Vegas Suit”

  1. Tricky Tramp Says:

    Yo Rebel
    Maybe Bowtie is in over his head. But you never can tell until you jump in the deep end. At least he jumped. Not many even take that leap. By the way, the weather is beautiful here.
    As always Much Respect

  2. Paladin Says:

    Regarding the posted TigerLily audio; I will have to respectfully disagree with Mr. Stubbs. I personally believe that the officials that are elected, are elected to represent the wishes of their constituents. Even though they may think otherwise, I do not believe elected officials are elected to make their own independent decisions on behalf of their constituents.

    If an elected official’s personal belief or opinion differs from that of his or her constituents, then they get to express their difference of belief or opinion at the ballot box, just like everyone else. When they vote in the House or Senate, they vote the wishes of the people that elected them.

    Regarding the video, where Mr. Stubbs talks about searches that are incident to an arrest; If arrested in your home, the arresting officers would only be allowed to search the immediate area where the arrest took place, and this would be for officer safety reasons. An arrest that takes place in your living room would limit the cops to the searching of the living room only. An arrest in one part of your house does not give the cops a green light to go searching through the rest of your house.

    Regarding Stubbs vs. Tigerlily; they’re obviously working on two different levels. Mr. Stubbs is trying to change the status quo, by being Mr. Nice Guy. Tigerlily is trying to make changes by calling “bullshit” and having the community (through emails and letters) show their displeasure toward their elected officials. At the moment, it seems Tigerlily’s approach is having a greater impact.

    Long May You Ride (to those that deserve to),


  3. Budweiser Says:

    It all comes down to money. The risk versus reward wasn’t worth it. Simple as that. That being said, I’d hire “Bowtie” in a second if I lived out west.

  4. Muck 1%er Says:

    I clicked on the second video titled “How to deal with Law Enforcement that go to far…” and my computer crashed. That happen to anyone else?

  5. Phuquehed Says:

    @Muck 1%er – No, it worked fine for me.

  6. DesertH-D Says:

    We all respect Tigerlily’s intentions and passion. However, she and her followers did not help the last helmet bill effort in Nevada. In fact, they pissed off the “elected officials” so much that there became no hope at all of getting something through the Legislature. Passion and drive are great things, but if not harnessed in an effective manner, they will do more harm than good. “Calling bullshit”, and promoting the sending of profanity and threat laden missives to Senators and Assemblymen is going to result in only one thing: a dead bill.

  7. Pig Says:

    I got to throw my hat in with Paladin on this one. I don’t know who “Tigerlily” is, having just heard of her on this site for the first time, but having listened to the audio I tend to lean more to her side of the camp than Stubbs’. I’m damned tired of trying to take the high road and getting absolutely no results. We have to ask them nicely or they won’t protect our God given liberties? They’ll kill a bill and fuck me out of my rights just because I didn’t get on my knees and beg for it? Bullshit! Who the fuck do they think they are? Our forefathers turned the water in Boston Bay brown with tea because the government had the audacity to raise the tax on their favorite breakfast beverage! The revolution begins when the gloves come off and people start demanding what’s theirs. We’ve tried it the nice way for decades and all we got is Obama Care and fucking drones in the sky. Time to take our rights back.

    Having said all that, I don’t mean to knock Stubbs either. I think he’s trying to do the right thing and that’s more that a lot of folks can honestly say. And frankly, if he gains a name for himself in the process, good for him.

  8. DesertH-D Says:

    I’ll be the first to admit that politics makes for strange bedfellows.(That’s paraphrasing Shakespeare for those that… oh never mind.)

    But let me give you a quote from one of the emails that was given to us from a Senator that was SUPPORTING our cause. (I cannot say definitively that this particular one was from a Tigerlily follower, but it is representative of the general tone.) “Who the fuck are you assholes to tell me I have to wear a helmet? If you don’t vote for this, we’re going to make sure you’re (sic) ass is never elected again, and we no (sic) where you live too.” Similar emails were sent to all the members of the transportation committee. What do you really think their response is going to be when presented with this kind of tone in an overwhelming manner?

    When going into a gunfight, it’s best to not shoot your own foot before clearing leather.

  9. One Eye Says:

    @DesertHD: It certainly sounds as though there are two opposing factions and different ideologies on how things should be handled. I have found in my experiences that ones in office aren’t usually too motivated, unless of course your cause helps their expedient motives. As far as the emails go, can you control your circle of friends and their responses on any issue? That, of course, is a rhetorical question, because you can’t, however, some people are more intense than others. As far as the email from the senator is concerned I would take anything a senator said, showed or repeated with a healthy grain of salt; it’s not as though politicians are the most honest people on the planet. As far as Tigerlily’s methods are concerned, I think there can be a balance between tenacity and tact, however I do not have a problem with less tact. Even Teddy Roosevelt advised to “speak softly and carry a big stick.” I don’t think the stick was in the event an impromptu game of baseball broke out.

  10. DesertH-D Says:

    One Eye said: “I would take anything a senator said, showed or repeated with a healthy grain of salt”.

    TRUE DAT! But in this case I know for sure the email is valid.

    And no, we can’t “control” our Brothers, friends, acquaintances… Hell, not even kids and family! But at the same time, if any of’em are acting like an ass, we’re going to point it out, aren’t we?

    Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I have nothing against Tigerlily, and what she tries to do… Just the opposite in fact. I just get frustrated when I see long-fought efforts get close to the end game, and then get short-circuited by over exuberance.

    I also don’t want to come across as some kind of ardent Stubbs supporter… I’ve actually never personally met the man. Like most, I was happy to see the results of his efforts in Henderson. Beyond that, I don’t know all that much about him. I don’t like lawyers in general, but I hope he has more successes on behalf of the Southern NV COC, and other worthy causes. I hope he and his partner in AZ kicks some ass, as that case sounds really fucked up.

    BTW – One thing politicians do have is a long memory… The issues from the helmet fight carried forward and effected the lane splitting effort, in what turned out to be a very bizarre way. (“strange bedfellows…”)

  11. Stephen "Bowtie " Stubbs Says:

    Here is my response post that I posted in the comments of the GIITEM story. I thought it was appropriate here too:

    1) I am not Jesus; nor am I any other kind of Savior. I am an attorney that decided to stand up to what I believe is wrong and a gross violation of rights guaranteed by our Creator and the US Constitution.

    2) Civil rights is not my professional specialty. I make my living fighting the IRS, representing clients in criminal matters, and providing estate planning services.

    3) All of my motorcycle club clients know full well that I am new to the civil rights realm (in fact the COC v LVMPD case is my first federal case- ever). After I witnessed travesties of justice first hand, and build strong and meaningful relationships with members of the motorcycle community, I made a decision to stand with these friends and US Citizens in the fight defending the US Constitution. I only promised my clients one thing- “I will fight for you. I may get my ass kicked, but I will fight.”

    4) All of these motorcycle club cases have one giant common factor- They require a hell of a lot of work, and carry a large risk that there will be no monetary reward. Even if we win, the judge and/or jury could award equity damages (injunctions, etc) and not give any monetary damages. That is why no other lawyer would touch these cases (with the exception of Attorney Phillip Seplow in Arizona) without a $50,000+ retainer. Lots of attorneys wanted the cases, but they wanted to guarantee income before they would start their work. This excludes many, many people from the justice system and thereby excludes many people from justice.

    I am keeping my promise to my clients and the motorcycle community. I am fighting. I know that I may get my ass kicked (we are going into uncharted territory here), but I’m fighting.

    5) These lawsuits and the press coverage have netted great results. As of today, 3 different bad cops have been terminated or resigned in lieu of being terminated. 2 of those officers (Finn and Ash) had a direct connection to these lawsuits while a third (Eugene Holm) came as a separate case. Bikers in Vegas are being harassed less than in the past. Since we filed the lawsuit, no one has been arrested for lawfully carrying a weapon, and Officers are changing their behavior (not all, but many). Abuses have gone down drastically.

    6) To those of you that don’t understand last Friday’s court ruling in the COC v LVMPD case, Judge Gordon essentially granted me a do-over. Judge Gordon ruled that my present strategy was not proper, split the cases up, pointed out many errors, and granted me leave to amend the main complaint (see page 12, line 13 through page 13, line 4 of the Order). Judge Gordon also gave me the opportunity to file new complaints with the severed cases, kept them all in his courtroom, and consolidated discovery (which will save us a lot of money, time, and resources).

    7) This isn’t even close to over…ROUND 2…”ding, ding”.


  12. PigPen Says:

    I heard this expression once. (not that i totally agree, but the everyday civilians might)
    Profanity is often used, when the person lacks the vocabulary, or intelligence to articulate their message. Spelling sure as hell helps when trying to be taken seriously.
    I am quite the fan, of nicely placed go fuck yourself, I find it quite effective as it rolls off the tongue and comes to a abrupt stop. But when trying to get a law passed, one way or the other, ‘cussin and threatening a politician, is seldom the way to get them on your side. While I do agree that some people just need a verbal slap to the face, I don’t see it being an effective way to fight your fight in a judicial environment. The fucking suits, only respect a well thought out statement, followed by an educated debate of facts. When you start with yo yo yo mudderfucka, we is gonna kill yer dog if you make us wear helmets, shit, even I don’t listen. And I am barely a high school educated caveman.

  13. brain fart Says:

    These are expected legal setbacks in this type of effort, decision on summary judgement motion, right? No no discovery and no trial on the merits yet. One does not “make new law” at the trial court level, and a state COC group as an organizational plaintiff in a civil rights case is new stuff as far as I can find online. “Organizational standing” is always challenged in such suits. COC should prevail there on appeal in the end if this stays alive long enough. The ACLU used to have to play the same game years ago…no one raises the issue anymore about them.

    But the court knows that. So here, we have a court opinion that documents the simply remedied technical and linguistic flaws in the pleadings as pointed out by the defendants in their motion papers, just as a good judge should do to preserve the record. No need for an appeal yet, time was given to take a second bite at the pleading of standing apple, this is no final dismissal on the merits so I suspect it lives on. Intended to aid the efficiency of the system, which is what judges do. Avoided an appeal on summary judgment (no matter which way the court ruled if it had done so in a final manner) on this issue and the appellate courts saying the same thing in the end just to start over again after standing is resolved post appeal.

    Very damn decent legal work, actually. Merely a technical pleading dismissal, a do-over, if you will – a win for Stubbs, frankly, all things considered re a case like this. Having to appeal a strait dismissal would be a pain, wasteful. Ignoring defendants points on this issue would have led to an appeal in the end if Stubbs wins the main fight, so far better to deal with it now. A necessary strategic victory on the first motion challenge by the state defending itself in civil court on civil rights violations alleged.

    One of the many, many challenges the system will throw to wear down plaintiffs in a civil case where real, actual pecuniary damages are not the driving force in the fight. Fighting for a thing more precious than money in a system designed and taxpayer funded for fights over money in corporate America is never easy. Economic warfare is part of civil litigation, only a tad more evenly playable by both sides as compared to criminal prosecution. This is nothing yet compared to the games played in discovery in this kind of case. Can’t wait to read about that if Stubbs has the fiscal staying power to drive on. Hope he does. Discovery in this case would be a blast, would love to help.

    Yeah, I hate lawyers, too. Got screwed so bad by a stupid one I became one myself when I was in my 30s, just to prove any dumb fucker can do it. 24 years ago now. Best of luck and respect to Bow Tie. Kick some state arse, bro!

  14. One Eye Says:

    @DesertHD: I didn’t get the impression you had a beef with Tigerlily and I see your point about seeing something near fruition and “get short circuited by over exuberance.” However, if emails could derail a train how committed are the politicians to the cause. Helmets are a very, very volatile subject and some people do get carried away. NOT that that is an excuse. I listened to the Bowtie/Tigerlily discussion and it did not sound adversarial in the least. If you read Pig Pen’s response it’s the absolute truth.

    @Bowtie: As I said before I think you did a great job on the cases with the cops and I’m sure you’ll keep fighting the good fight.

    @Pig Pen: Words of wisdom. I try to maintain as sense of decorum when in a setting with suits or authority. In a court case last January (I beat a helmet ticket) I brought out my A game. The initial shock of my appearance surrendered to that fact I was literate and knowledgeable. In the end my baser instincts wanted so badly to usurp my manners, look at the arrogant Crown, who I had just defeated, and ask,”so, douchebag, how the fuck do you like me now?” But, alas, I didn’t.

  15. sherides Says:


    Win or lose, you’re alright in my book. I don’t think I have ever came across a lawyer who cared more about his clients or cause than his payday.

    Seems like Judge Gordon also believes in the principles of the law.

    Good luck with your cases.


  16. Austin Says:

    @ One Eye; re: ‘and ask,”so, douchebag’ ;) High Five!

  17. AVAGOVFFV Says:

    Thank you Bowtie…

    Viva Los Vagos

  18. DesertH-D Says:

    One Eye – That’s some funny shit! Ain’t it just the way? Perfect one liner ready to go, and wisdom prevents you from using it. I might have to borrow that sometime though. :-)

    As for the politicians, the one that shared the message was on our side all the way. Several others however were moving, slowly but surely, to our position. The arguments on our side were actually quite persuasive compared to the emotional tripe being thrown out by the opposition. Not saying we invented anything new, it’s pretty much helmet law argument 101, using what has worked elsewhere. When those emails hit though, it all went out the window… One might make it 999 steps through the minefield, but if that 1000th goes click, then it all goes boom.

    PigPen – Pretty clear I myself have a bit of a habit with “colorful metaphors”… I don’t think coarse language is necessarily a direct reflection of a person’s intellect. Some of the smartest people I’ve known swore like sailors. But you’re exactly right, like so many things, there is a time and place. If one is to write a letter to a politician attempting to change their mind on a particular issue, decorum, facts, and a persuasive argument are definitely the order of the day.

    Bowtie, Brain Fart, Shyster, et al. – Best of luck in your cases, and to your clients.

    All – Most lawyers I’ve encountered are blood sucking, self-absorbed pieces of shit. They are detritus from the disintegration of our justice system as it was originally intended. So when we come across some that seem to have their head on at least somewhat straight, we need to keep them on our side! Not sure what bee Trina Amadon had in her bonnet to start all this, but unless I see reason to believe otherwise, the guys named above have my encouragement.

    Great night and respects to all that deserve it, I’m off to get a drink with mama… :-)

  19. DesertH-D Says:

    I should have added Tigerlily has my encouragement too… With just a bit of a reminder to try to keep it effective.

  20. tiger Says:

    I am proud of the effort Stubbs has shown. What ever happened to our constitution? Have our elected officials finished wiping they’re asses with our rights? Bowtie keep up the good fight. Rebel great job on the articles and if you need assistance you have some in the Great Lakes and it would be my honor to meet you in the future. Tiger FTP FTG FTW

  21. Big Loser One Percenter Says:

    Hey Rebel, how you doing. Hope all, or most, is going well for you.

    I think Bowtie’s boxing metaphor was utterly apropos; after all, he’s in a match with an opponent billed as the superior contestant and he’s making sure that opponent experiences a few world-rocking wallops. I know this doesn’t win the fight but it frequently encourages said opponent to second guess himself when coming in for the next assault. Making these corrupt Finn-like police officials think twice before assaulting any American citizen’s civil rights was a wallop struck not just for bikers, I believe, but struck in the name of Justice for all.

    I bet Bowtie’s tactics are already producing positive results we’re not even aware of – and this makes his efforts a prize worth fighting for.

    I say keep your dukes up Bowtie.


  22. BigLoserOnePercenter Says:

    Hey Rebel, how you doing. Hope all, or most, is going well for you.

    I think Bowtie’s boxing metaphor was utterly apropos; after all, he’s in a match with an opponent billed as the superior contestant and he’s making sure that opponent experiences a few world-rocking wallops. I know this doesn’t win the fight but it frequently encourages said opponent to second guess himself when coming in for the next assault. Making these corrupt Finn-like police officials think twice before assaulting any American citizen’s civil rights was a wallop struck not just for bikers, I believe, but struck in the name of Justice for all. I bet Bowtie’s tactics are already producing positive results we’re not even aware of – and this is a prize worth fighting for.

    I say keep your dukes up Bowtie.


  23. Tim D. Says:

    I like the video, from bowtie , I knew most of the rights, but learned much more I didn’t know. Thanks!!!

  24. chromedome Says:

    Keep swingin bowtie…..its a uphill battle… well more of a mt everest than a hill lol …..its much bigger than most of us realize…….

Leave a Reply