Iron Order Stabbing

December 12, 2011

All Posts, Editorials, News

A week ago, a Hells Angel Motorcycle Club patch holder named William “Spook” Sosebee was convicted of armed robbery, kidnapping, possession of a knife during a violent crime and first-degree assault and battery for stabbing a member of another motorcycle club. The victim is named Jim Moye and this happened in a bar in Rock Hill, South Carolina. Rock Hill is about 20 miles south Charlotte, North Carolina.

A member of the Red Devils Motorcycle Club named Timothy David Hill was found not guilty of similar charges. Sosebee was sentenced to 10 years in prison without the possibility of parole.

Moye obviously wandered into the wrong bar. It was a place called Wall Bangers and it is popular with Hells Angels and friends of that club. According to official documents, Sosebee walked over Moye, hit him in the head with the butt of a Bowie knife and told him to take off his cut. When Moye refused Sosebee stabbed Moye in the stomach. None of the men involved in the altercation are exactly juvenile delinquents. Sosebee and Moye are both 58. Hill is 45.

Moye refused to implicate Sosebee. He told police “it was a motorcycle thing.” Witnesses in the bar fingered Sosebee and Hill to police.

Iron Order

This particular patch pulling is noteworthy because Moye is a member of the Iron Order Motorcycle Club. The Iron Order was founded in Kentucky in 2004 and has chapters in 42 states. The club wears a black-on-white three piece patch, accepts sworn peace officers as members and has developed a reputation as a cop club.

In an interview in 2010, the Los Angeles chapter President said, “Yes we do wear a three piece patch and our colors are black on white. The reason for our colors dates back to the start of the Iron Order. When the original eight members kicked around the idea of colors, and after trying to follow protocol with the existing MCs, the decision was made that the center patch, the Jughead (skull) only looked the best in black and white. So black on white it was. We are in every sense a traditional MC and follow all traditional protocols. We ride and we party and take care of our brothers. In fact, our brothers are put before our personal needs. We wear a California bottom rocker, as does each state’s chapter, as well as chapters outside the US. This only signifies the state we are from.”

The spokesman denied that any members of his chapter were police. “However, for future reference, we do not disclose any information about any brothers, period!” The club allows women to ride with them but not to patch. They don’t admit anyone who has ever been convicted of a felony. They do not tolerate marijuana use. They do not require members to own an American motorcycle. They claim to be “the largest independent motorcycle club in the world.” The club seems to exist almost completely apart from other motorcycle clubs but insists “we are a real motorcycle club.”

Something Is Happening Here

Both the Iron Order and the Sons of Anarchy may be pointing toward a new social phenomenon.

Last September, the Philadelphia Inquirer reported, “Authorities say that the soaring popularity of the Sons of Anarchy TV show – the most-watched in FX’s history – could be contributing to a disturbing trend: Weekend warriors, no longer content to simply ride together, are forming small motorcycle clubs and dabbling in the outlaw lifestyle.”

It is debatable whether the Inquirer knows what it is talking about but it is certain that the Harley-Davidson Motor Company has spent the last 30 years turning “the outlaw lifestyle” into a commodity. Sons of Anarchy is part of that commoditization. So is the merchandise, like ersatz colors, that the FX show promotes. And none of this probably disturbs anybody very much unless they work for Gangland or the ATF.

So Let’s Be Philosophical

But the patch pulling in South Carolina opens a Pandora’s box of fundamental questions like where did we come from, who are we and where are we going?

If the Iron Order is a real motorcycle club who is to say that the Sons of Anarchy is not? How long before some tipsy outlaw demands the surrender of the SAMCRO cut some fan bought on eBay? Or, how long before a representative of the show demands that the fan give it up because the cut is not “authorized merchandise?” What is the difference? And, will the television fan give up his “colors?”

Is there strange humor in this? Will it be funny when a couple of television actors put on their costumes and decide to take over a biker bar? Will it be funny when they get stabbed? Will Jax and Clay adhere to the code of biker omerta? And when this happens, will it be a publicity stunt for the television show? Will it be a fake stabbing or a real one? And, will their assailants end up going to prison? And if they do, will it still all be funny then?


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1,343 Responses to “Iron Order Stabbing”

  1. ToSlick Says:


    12G Has retired and won’t be back. It took longer than I thought but ol 12G got done what was needed and the point that was made is he wasn’t a loyal hang around at all. Didn’t you follow that thread, he burned the IO pukes in a big way and you think that is a loyal hang around.12G did what he had to do He kept a good man from making a very bad mistake the man just doesn’t realize it yet. He wasn’t very happy with me last time I seen him we had to help him to his car and he was still calling me names and don’t think he liked 12G very much either. Gawd I am so funny. KK you need to look up the word loyal 12G was far from loyal dude…

  2. Quagmire Says:

    I’ve been reading this thread all night and have learned alot. Upfront and honest, I am a cop and I belong to a LE MC, not the IOMC. Yes we wear a 3 pc patch and no, we did not ask permission from a “dominant club”. I served in the military for years and felt I earned my rights and live in a free country. I was raised to give respect to all. I have came across 1%ers while on duty. I gave them the same respect they gave me. Hell, I gave one a couple of gallons of gas once. All I asked in return was him to stop and pick me up if he ever saw me walking along the road. I am a biker. Been on bikes for over 30 years now. I live to ride. I love my Brothers, want to wear my Colors, and ride. I don’t care if you want to do the same. I am not offended. And I am not trying to offend you. So, I am asking advice on how to show respect to another MC should I come across members while wearing my Colors. Honestly, any meeting would be at a restaurant or gas station, or just passing on the road. I am too fucking old to hang in a bar wearing my Colors waiting for some young punk to try to take it from me. I am not too old to fight, but definitely too old to lose. This is a legit question. And yes I expect to be slammed about being a cop and in a LEMC. That’s ok, broad shoulders and thick skin…

  3. Rebel Says:

    Dear Pappy,

    Go for it.


  4. Pappy Says:

    I don’t like rules or criminals…I got no problem with cops…Maybe this Iron Order is worth checking out!

  5. lesss than lethal Says:

    the more I experience the biker world, the less I like IO.

    I’ve also noticed that rules on rockers are more generalizations and who can and cannot wear a three piece varies from area to area. I’ve seen some AMA clubs with three pieces, and the pagans wear what is now called a two piece.(they also wear the %1 diamond)

    A two piece can be vauge and also dependent on localilty.

    Even among three pieces there is a distinction between what piece of geography can go on the bottom rocker. Again, this varies by locale. Different dominants have different rules, even among different chapters of the same crew.

    Along the way there are plenty of small mostly unnoticeable clubs in 1, 2, and 3 piece which are both recognized and not in any way shape fitting the requirements of such, if any such inspection would to take place, and if anyone were really to care. There are about the same who are legit and dedicated.

    So far I’ve only recognized two styles of patches of which there is little ambiguity. A Rhomboid diamond which represents the %1, and the American flag for patriotism. Everything else becomes somewhat vague.

    But lets get back to this Iron Order. There are plenty of “law abiding family oriented” clubs. Most of them are very happy to distinguish themselves from the %1 and three piece clubs by wearing a 1-piece.

    That said, personal experience is that a 1-piece “family friendly” “citizen”‘s club that doesn’t try and be something they are not, is still more likely to receive negative attention from the cops than the %1 or other three pieces.

    Then we come to the national franchise, most one and two piece clubs, and just about every LEGIMATE ma’ and pa’ style club are small, I’d say vast majority single chapter clubs. Iron Order seems to be giving a charter to anyone who wants it without any real links to the club in general. Why are they so eager to expand rapidly, especially if they don’t claim turf.

    After wearing three pieces, getting into fights with Hells Angels, and rapidly expanding, how is this Iron Order, not immediately placed on some sort of government watch list. How are they NOT on gangland?

    Even from an outsider’s perspective, they just don’t add up.

  6. onikeeg Says:

    I have had some dealings with IOMC in SC, it does not surprise me this incedent occurred. I’ve seen first hand their interactions with established clubs and its not pretty, their general lack of knowledge when it comes to protocol with established 3 patch clubs makes one smack their head in response.

    I’m still a young pup in this world so I acknowledge that I have a lot of learning and experience to gain not only with being a “biker” , whatever you want to call it, but also the club life. The things I’ve learned from patchholders has been precious to say the least.

    I have learned enough to stay clear o LEO clubs, they put a bad taste in my mouth. The one thing I will say is I’ve seen a IO member wearing a SOA shirt which should say enough. By the way my understanding is that IO national pulled the SC chapter patches for obvious reasons, still don’t know what to think about them considering I’ve seen them fall back on the badge before.

  7. RVN69 Says:

    KK Says:”Ok back to my grand dad whisky & rapper weed”.

    OH Damn, you got the GOOOOD stuff!!

    Potius Mori Quam Foedare

  8. Rebel Says:

    Dear KK,

    Not to hijack whatever this thread is but whisky and weed sure would hit the spot about now.


  9. anon Says:


    You’re right, and I apologize to everyone on here for the comment, especially all of the patch holders, past or present.

    I’ve posted on here for a bit under the name, even though it chose a stupid version of “anonymous” since I originally thought I would only leave one or to random comments. I kept the name only so that people could keep track of my continuing comments and to establish a reputation – good or bad – based on the comments I’ve made.

    I’ve made some comments in the past about being involved in another world which is subject to a substantial amount of prejudice and bigotry from the outside world which is mostly based on the prejudice and bigotry of the accusers instead of the accused.

    All of my comments came from that perspective. My impression, for many reasons, is that many people on this site would agree. I add the disclaimer to make it clear that I do not speak for any MC member, regardless of their affiliation or lack thereof.

    To reiterate that last point, let me post the full quote from me instead of your excerpt.

    “I’m not a part of the MC world, but allow me to try and clear some things up. No disrespect intended towards you or any patch-holder on here.”

    In all honesty and with all due respect, I tried to keep my comments polite but direct while also acknowledging my role as an outsider and making it clear that I was not speaking for any club member or club.

    If I have somehow offended you or anyone else on this site, I really do deeply apologize for the offense. I was attempting to speak in general terms to the poster which, in my own personal experience, do transcend the MC world. Nonetheless, I do not speak in any way, shape, or form for the MC world.

  10. KK Says:

    Anon: I am not the brightest bulb out here & on occasion I can be totally burnt out if you will but you stated:

    “I’m not a part of the MC world, but allow me to try and clear some things up. No disrespect”

    WTF. That’s just about the ULTIMATE disrespect for any patchholder here, regardless of association.

    12G: You sound like you would make a decent,loyal “hangaround” maybe even an associate after a bit who knows. Nothing shamefull in that, I’ve known plenty for over 20,25 years. You would keep your heart intacted too.

    Ok back to my grand dad whisky & rapper weed.


  11. anon Says:


    Let’s get this straight. You’re 52. You want the brotherhood of being in an MC, by which you mean guys who have your back no matter what and won’t run and be a bunch of cop-callers. You want a three-piece patch because that’s what your uncles had, and you think it’s an offense to their legacies to wear a one-piece or two-piece patch. Those uncles were both 1%ers, but you refuse to join a 1% club because of your promise. You’ve been a biker for 30 years and seem to imply that you’ve only ever met (i) 1%er club, (ii) IO, and (iii) other clubs that didn’t fit the bill.

    Is this all correct?

    Oh, and, “I am a Biker and I should have the right to be a Rebel against any such control [referring to the dominance of the dominant 1%er club in the are] over me shouldn’t I. [sic]”

    I’m not a part of the MC world, but allow me to try and clear some things up. No disrespect intended towards you or any patch-holder on here.

    My guess is that the general consensus (and my own personal bias) is that any LEO-friendly club does not have the brotherhood you’re seeking. There will always be members who back down, refuse to support you, or call the cops when a situation arises. Those aren’t brothers. At least not to me. It sounds like they wouldn’t be to you. And my guess is that nobody in the type of MC you’re looking for would tolerate such members. IO is openly LEO-friendly.

    On the three-piece patch or patches of your uncles, since I don’t know if they were in the same club. I don’t see the issue. There are three-piece non-1%er clubs and 1%er clubs that don’t wear their pieces. I may be wrong, but I’m fairly certain the Pagans wear what would be called two pieces and the Vagos only one. Most people would refer to them as 1%er clubs. Your uncles, if I may be so bold as to speculate, did not give a shit about number of patches stitched onto the back of their cuts. They cared about the particular patches and the particular brotherhood they belonged to and which those patches represented. One, two, or three pieces is irrelevant. 1%er, non-1%er but still outlaw, or AMA recognized is irrelevant. Either it’s a brotherhood, or it’s not.

    I do honestly have a hard time believing that you’ve been associated with the MC world for 25-30 years (you mentioned being approached by one uncle’s club when you started riding at 17, right? And you’re 52 now? So, at least 25 years) and only finding 1%er clubs and IO as the only MC options.

    As for the quote I included. “I am a Biker and I should have the right to be a Rebel against any such control over me shouldn’t I.”

    You can rebel against any control you want, biker or not. There are often consequences for such rebellion, biker or not. You have the right to be such a rebel. If you choose to be such a rebel, you should also realize, understand, and be prepared to deal with the consequences of that rebellion. The 1%ers that you don’t want to be a part of are dealing with those consequences on a daily basis, as you should realize just by reading the front page of this site. Wearing any three-piece patch that isn’t LEO-friendly will likely draw consequences from LEO just for appearing to be a 1%er MC.

    Life is about choices and consequences. Make your choices. Accept and deal with the consequences.

    As others have mentioned, there are plenty of clubs that are neither 1%er nor LEO-friendly. Find one that offers what you are looking for. Or don’t. You can also look for that brotherhood you seek elsewhere.

  12. observer Says:

    super unknown: That’s a pretty cogent and demoralizing observation. Rather like joining a Herpes dating club just to get it over with.

  13. super unknown Says:

    As I look at resent MC history it seems to me there are cops in every club. The difference between your club and mine is that I know who the cops in my club are

  14. 12Guage Says:

    Glenn S I no longer have a diliema about joining the IO. That is my point, I met a group of guys and started hanging out and riding with them. I ran into an old friend who pointed me to this site. I will NOT be part of it now. I asked advise…..I was given good advise and I took it….NO diliema anymore.

    As we all know even a NON outlaw club is a support club one way or another…..So…To Honor both, my Uncles and a promise I will remain solo as I have always done. A biker with out a club.

    What I will say is I have always shown respect and no matter what club I been around they have always shown me respect. So I will continue on as I have always done.

  15. Square Verbose Doc Says:

    “No offense intended, Doc. I was speaking figuretivly. Surely not penny loafers, though.”

    None taken–I’m just adding my own levity. And yes, penny loafers. They’re very comfortable. For me. Your mileage will vary. Apropos of this thread.

    “Be who you are”….JR Reed
    “Dowhatyoulike”…..Greg Jacobs

  16. Glenn S. Says:

    No offense intended, Doc. I was speaking figuretivly. Surely not penny loafers, though.

    12 guage, its a bitch getting old with unfulfilled dreams. So I’m out fulfilling mine. Joining a pretend motorcycle club full of cops and their supporters is not one of them, thank the gods. Like others here, I do not understand your diliema.

    Some years back, a neighbor of mine was fucking this woman who dreamed of becomming a cop. She had been rescued from some sick individuals by cops when she was a child, and looked up to them. She knew a little about my background (and was always trying to give me the pussy) so she asked me what I thought of her becoming a cop. I told her it was none of my business and I really didn’t care. But I also told her to be aware that the concept of cops being the “good guys” and anybody that broke a law being a “bad guy” was bullshit. It was just two sides in a conflict, and everyone is free to choose their own side for whatever reason, and now go have a good life away from me. Ran into her a year or so later, she was a county sheriff’s deputy. Ran into her a year or so after that and she’d been fired for theft. I think she expected me to disapprove of her being a cop, and then approve of her stealing, but I didn’t really give a shit either way.

  17. 12Gauge Says:

    Hey Bob…..I came on here because an old friend pointed something out to me….I came on here for advise from Bikers who know of the IO….Advise given…Advise taken and I’ve shown NO one disrespect….but yet you hide behind your computer and show me disrespect Bob……I have never put a patch on my back and I have always held my own….I will say one thing Bob…..I bet you suck dick and don’t even know what honor is…..get the dick out of your mouth Bob….

  18. bob Says:

    I remember kids whose moms would not let them play JV football.I don’t know if they all ended up sucking dick,or not.Never tell the whole damn world about alleged promises made to relatives.WTF is this ,”The Coward of the County”?After hearing about the IO involvement in the Sosebee case on this blog ,no poster should be professing a willingness to join that bunch.

  19. observer Says:

    SVD: “Square Pride!”

  20. 12Guage Says:

    Thank you observer. You are right, it was a promise of the heart that did in deed come with a cost. I do own it, and it is my choice to honor it and I didn’t feel it a stupid promise at the time. Again, thank you observer.


  21. Square Verbose Doc Says:

    Glenn S. wrote:

    “…I ought to trade my bike for a minivan and my leathers for some pleated khacki trousers and penny loafers”

    I was going to insist that you take that back, but then I remembered that it’s not the pleated khaki trousers and penny loafers that make the man….

  22. observer Says:

    12 gauge: I respect your issue(s). But I think you should revisit your ongoing assessments of your pledge as “a stupid promise”. I think that probably bugs everybody, including you. It was a promise. It came with a cost. You made it. Man up and own it.

  23. 12Guage Says:

    Glen S

    The thing is I agree with you and what you say is heavy. I am a Biker and have been one on my own. All I was saying is I thought I found a fit and had no idea until I was pointed to this site that the IO was disrespected and I get why. I have been invited to other clubs but as I said. 1% and I made a stupid promise at a young age that cost me what I really wanted. The only reason I look at the 3pc above 1 or 2 is what it meant to my Uncles. Caretaker made a good point and I took it to heart. I over looked the fact that it wasn’t the 3pc patch my Uncles died for, it was the Brotherhood that 3pc patch stood for.

    I am tierd of running alone, I want to be part of a Brotherhood I’ve missed out on all these years. I thought I found the one that fit but now I am giving it second thought because I do agree that patch on my back may be a disrespect to my Uncles. To me a Brotherhood will stand together NO matter what. I do NOT call everyone on a bike a brother because I don’t know them. A brother is someone who has your back at all cost. I am who I am Glenn S. NOT a man trying to be someone he’s not. Just a 52 year old Biker wanting something he has kept himself from for over 30 years. I only have about 2 minutes of fight left in my now days so I will save it for when it is needed. Other than that I just want to ride, fuck and drink. And just so you know, in my younger day I road 20,000 plus miles a year, my bike was my life. I am who I say I am, a BIKER, just takes me a bit longer to heal now days. The love of Freedom and joy of riding. That is what life is all about.

  24. 10Gauge Says:


    You asked a “legit” question…I gave you my answer. If you don’t like it too bad. I said there are plenty of established and respected traditional three piece clubs which are non leo out there you can check out.

    You are absolutely right however, I do not “get it”. I would not make the promise you made…so what? You did..and found a club that suits you..FINE. Honor it. But don’t expect me to RESPECT a patch that DOES NOT EARN OR DESERVE IT… and certainly not beceause of some promise involving your family legacy. As I said earlier it is a moot point because you already made your mind up…and your right the man does make the patch..The IO is full of cops that like to play dress up and call other cops when confronted..That is a fact!

    It does surprise me however, you have been in this life for 30+ years and spent over a year hanging around with IO and it took a friend to tell you about this place to find out the IO is not respected as you thought…you are right about one thing..people “get in” where they “fit in” in your case it looks to be with a dress up club out in la la land…Good luck with that!


  25. 12Guage Says:

    I don’t want my cake and eat it too. I guess you just don’t get it 10g. That promise to stay out of a 1% or 1% support club has cost me a lot. And I do know the choices and sacrifice required by a club. I can NOT sacrifice my honor though. My question has been answered and I thank Caretaker for that. 10g I will NEVER be a punk no matter what is on my back. One of the things I learned at a young age, The Patch doesn’t make the man, the man makes and protects the Patch.

  26. Glenn S. Says:

    I would think that the best, and maybe only reason for joining a particular club is that its members are the brothers you want, men whose values and stance mirror your own. If one believes in the law enforcement culture and gravitates towards cops and their supporters, maybe the iron order is the club for that person but hey, why not go whole hog and put on the blue uniform? Go out and fuck with people who are just trying to get through another day. If somebody just wants three pieces of patch on their back, well, that says something too, and it sounds like somebody trying to be someone who, in their heart of hearts, they know they are not. That person should do himself a favor and not set himself up for failure. A man should honestly ask himself just who and what he is, and live his life accordingly.

    12 gauge, I, too, am 52. I bought my first bike two years ago after 25 years with a needle in my arm, 11 years in prison, and 12 years clean in Narcotics Anonymous. The first time I got the bike out of first gear, I thought: I wish I’d found this before I found dope. I also knew that the yuppies-on-wheels groups like HOG would not be a good fit for me. Now, 20,000 miles later, I am checking out the clubs, making the acquaintance and perhaps earning the friendship and respect of some of the members, and seeing which club, if any, would be a good fit for me. Because if it doesn’t fit, it won’t work, and even if it would, why do it if it doesn’t fit? Sure, a three piece patch would probably intimidate some people, but if I can’t do that on my own, I have no business in an intimidating club. It might attract women, but if I can’t do that on my own, I probably lack the self-confidance I’d need to make it in the world and I ought to trade my bike for a minivan and my leathers for some pleated khacki trousars and penny loafers.

    Nothing sadder than somebody trying to be what they are not, and my limited experience with clubs tells me that they can spot that one a mile away.

  27. 12Gauage Says:


    I have been on my bike for 30 plus years and over the years I have been around different clubs, over the years I have been asked to hang around and ride, they were all 1% clubs. I have made friends over the years and admired the fact that no matter how much of a friend I was the Brothers of those friends always came before me.

    For 30+ years I have road without a club because of a promise I made to my grandmother and mother as a kid, I was 15. Had I known then what I’ve learned over the years I may not had made that promise but I did. You honestly can’t understand looking into your grandmother’s crying eyes as you make a promise 10g? That is a moment I will NEVER forget (Both Of Them)

    I lost my mother in 89 and my grandmother last year. Would it make me more of a man if I broke that promise to them now that they are gone? I think not. I broke my grandmother’s heart plenty over the years by the way I lead my life but I never broke that promise to her. I will also add 10g that when I got my first bike at 17 I was asked by my Uncle Bob’s club to be a hang around. I was a confused teenager and as much as he loved his club and put them first it was my Uncle Dennis who advised me to honor my promise to his mother and sister, my grandmother and mother. A promise, a stupid promise is why after 30+ years I have not been a Brother or had that bond 10g. Can you really not understand a lifelong promise like that. Yes, there has been many times over the years I’ve regretted that promise but I have always honored it.

    I do not want my cake and eat it to 10g. I just want to feel that kind of bond, be part of something much greater than I, a true Brotherhood before I die. It just can’t be with a 1% club or 1% support club because of a stupid promise made as a boy and NO I will not join a riding buy your way in club.

    Now I find out that I have hung around a club for almost a year only to find that I may have wasted my time because I wouldn’t have the respect that goes along with being part of a Brotherhood. I ran into an old friend of mine I hadn’t seen in years who after I talked about IO told me I better check out this site so here I am. Just shot out an honest question for some honest advice 10g. That is all, plain and simple, there was no need to get rude about it.


  28. 10guage Says:


    Only a punk if you put on that patch…If you understand the Brotherhood your uncles did you would know why. I do not understand the idea behind getting out of your promise on a technicality…And if it is BROTHERHOOD YOU ARE TRULY AFTER why does the design of your patch even matter. I do not know where you live but there are plenty of established clubs out there that you can check out, but if you have been around this life for 30 plus years it surprises me that you have not yet found a fit and because you have not I would just look deep at your motives and what you have to offer. I do not understand the nature of your promise or what you foresee being the conflict but EVERY Brotherhood will require choices and sacrifice…Sounds to me like you want your cake and eat it too.


  29. Caretaker Says:

    12 guage-
    You are more than welcome,just remember it’s what’s in your heart that matters most. And just because a club isn’t a 3 piece doesn’t mean they don’t share the same bond of brotherhood. Search and ye shall find..

  30. 12Gauge Says:

    Thank you Caretaker, I have looked for a 3pc NON 1%er in my area..Can’t find one but I will keep looking. My whole adult life I have been stuck between a rock and a hard spot. A promise I made and the life of my Uncles, I remember the Brotherhood they had and I have always wanted to have it myself but because of that promise I was always unable to be part of it. I was excited to find the IO but now I am still stuck between a rock and hard spot. Deep down I know the advise my Uncles would give me, I just know at 52 I really want that Brotherhood they had and I know what that 3pc meant to my Uncles.

  31. rollinnorth Says:

    Thanks, observer!

  32. Caretaker Says:

    You wanna wear a 3piece wjile honoring your promise,as I understand it. That is,in my opinion,very honorable. However,to show respect to your uncles,ANY club that allows leo’s to join is a disrespect to both your uncles,and their beliefs. There are many non outlaw clubs that wear a 3 piece that you can look into. If you yant to sjiw respect,and be respected,stay away from any leo club. You can find a 3 piece non leo club in your area by using google,or simply going to local events

  33. Rashomon Says:

    @observer – that’s too fuckin’ funny and she’s cute as well.

  34. 12Gauge Says:

    Ok this is a Legit question. I have lived my life showing Patch Holders Respect at the same time showing no fear. Now I want to belong to a Brotherhood with a 3 piece patch. As a 3 piece is that of my Uncles. If I get my buddies together and ask our Dominate MC to start a club with a 3 piece the answer will be NO. The ones they aprove are 1 or 2 piece, NEVER a 3 piece. Myself being a Biker since 1977 understand the whole respect thing and I know they deserve my respect for what they have gone through to wear thier colors but at the same time I ask for respect because I am a Biker and not just a wanna be…..what do I do with that….I feel I have the right to wear a 3 piece

  35. 12Gauge Says:


    I am NOT IO yet and I really did throw it out there as a Legit question. You maybe right..if still alive maybe they would kick my ass,are maybe they wouldn’t. I was only 13 when my Uncle Bob got his full patch, he had 2 years of showing me his lifestyle and I loved and respected him and I took on their love for Bikes and Freedom. I know what their colors meant to them and as I grew older I grew to understand why they wouldn’t take them off when it was asked of them. My problem is I have always wanted to be part of a Brotherhood but because of my promise to my Grandmother I couldn’t. All I have ever known were 1% MC’s. All I ask is where do I turn then, can you understand a promise like the one I made to my grandmother ofter the loss of her only sons. I will also add that on top of feeling that I feel I have earned the right to call myself a biker I also feel I am far from a punk, I have had my jaw broke, nose broke and cut by a knife and all because I stood up to help friends over the years, so I don’t think I fall in the PUNK area either.

  36. 10Gauge Says:


    No not a newbie or weekend warrior…..just a punk…This arguement has been beat to death…We are the real rebels because we don’t follow COC protocol…blah, blah, blah…My bet is the question is a moot point because you already are IO…Either way… just know this…If either of your uncles was still alive, they would kick your ass!


  37. 12Gauge Says:

    I see all this coming down on the IOMC and just have to ask….just has to put in my two pennies. I got my first street bike in 1977, a Triumph 650, then a Norton 850 Commando, then another Triumph. It was 1982 before I could afford to buy my 1st Harley. My point is this. I am now 52 and have never been without a Bike; I live in Washington State and have NEVER put my bike away for the winter. I have lost friends due to the stupidity of A-Holes in cars and I myself have been run off the road more than once. From the age of 17 I have been on a bike, around MC’s and consider I have earned the right to call myself a Biker.

    In 1975 I lost an Uncle in Texas because while riding through to see relatives he refused to take off his cut while riding through, they killed him for that. At that time I made a promise to my mother and grandmother that I would never join a 1% MC. In 1982 I lost another Uncle, he whore those colors proud and in the end was shot in the head, again because he would not hand his cut over. Again I made a promise to my grandmother.

    Over the years there have been times I’ve wanted to belong to an MC, belong to a real Brotherhood. But because of my promise I made to my mother and Grandmother I never joined. Other than the MC’s I followed both my Uncle’s passion for the bike and lifestyle and I fill I have earned the right and respect to call myself a Biker.

    The IO is not a 1% MC, but what I have seen they do hold to a Brotherhood and Rebel attitude I could keep my promise to my mother and grandmother if I were to join this MC. I am not a Cop and my question is this; so from what I hear if I join the IO I would no longer have the right to call myself a Biker, I would over night become a weekend warrior. How crazy is that. I understand the prodigal but to follow it means you are told what you can wear, you have to follow the dominate clubs events and a % of your dues go to them right off the top. Sounds like another form of government rule. My Uncles put on cuts in a rebellion against our government and society so all I am saying is to maintain prodigal now days have just become another form of government and society control. I am a Biker and I should have the right to be a Rebel against any such control over me shouldn’t I.

  38. DesertH-D Says:

    “Enlightened”: First, thanks for your service in the Corps. Sorry you decided to follow that up by being a cop… You sound like a decent enough guy, hope you can stay above the corruption that seems ubiquitous among LEOs, and particularly among the fed alphabet soup nowadays.

    That being said, I put your handle in quotes above for a reason. Just wanted to point out, you actually are NOT. “Enlightened” that is… Not when it comes to the MC world anyway. Whatever research you may have done, and even whatever observations you have made here… You still don’t know jack shit! The only ones that DO, are those that have lived the life. Kindly keep that in mind, and try to avoid assumptions, especially in your chosen occupation.

    BTW – For being a cop club, the Blue Knights are at least honest about what they are. In my area (although I have heard it may be different in others), they do their own thing and stay out of everyone’s way. I won’t go to any party they’re likely to be at, nor to any event they put on (cops that ride are still cops), but they do show up to some of the COC’s open events, like the toy run. I’ve nodded to them, even exchanged a few pleasantries with one while waiting in line once. Be respectful to me, I’ll return the favor… My club and most others I know would point a cop that rides to them over a bunch of douchebags like the iron order.

  39. Enlightened Says:

    Hello all. I am a police officer. Before that I served in the Marine Corps. I’m new to the motorcycle community, having just purchased my first bike last year. I come from a large family of motorcycle riders, and militaryI veterans, none ever belonged to a club that I know of. Before I bought my bike I knew nothing about MC culture, as a police officer I was approached by members of the Blue Knights who told me I should join them, more recently I bumped into members of the Iron Order, who told me that they allowed police officers to join and that I should check them out. I have to say that I have become fascinated with MC culture and have done as much research as I can to learn more about it. I came across this forum while researching the Iron Order. I would like to thank you all for helping me to gain a fashion of understanding. I have decided not to pursue membership in any form of motorcycle organization. I just want to ride, have fun, and enjoy that freedom. I also like being a cop, I understand the stigma associated with all law enforcement, I’ve felt it from my own family. I cannot speak for any other person but myself, but for me I am not out to get anyone except those who prey on the poor and defenseless

  40. dan the man Says:

    “So, what happens when they become the biggest club in the area? Sure some dude with nothing to lose will try and take a patch, but from the sounds of it, IO is quick with a cell phone. That, and most of the older riders don’t want the trouble of chasing off citizens in MC costumes. If IO sticks to the main roads and the highways – they’ll own the main roads and highways.”

    Not meant personally to anyone or any club(just pointing something out), but:

    End of an Era???

    I personally think this was an eventuality. Cell phones, digital cameras, surveillance cameras are everywhere, cheap, and tiny, oh, and high quality. Everyone has them not just the cops. There are high res cameras on cell phones, along with internet, and youtube. No one leaves the house without a phone out of reach outside survaliance.

    There are no places left to “bury a body”. The only place left for secrets are between a man and an heavily encrypted computer file. The only camouflage is in a crowd.

    The age where you can be an “outlaw” and wear cuts with insignia meant for extreme visability and operating is coming to an end.

    No sir, before you say something I am not celebrating this, nor is it my fault, merely pointing it out.

    I’ll pour one out for you all though.

  41. black Says:

    I ran into one of these iron order guys in new orleans. Being in the local chapter of the skull cult mc (at the time) I Offered to take the guy and his girl out for a night on the town. He immediately started asking about our girls and if we were a 1% organization which I feel is rude from a outsider. As far as I am concerned these dudes are fucking idiots and deserve to be stripped.

  42. tiger Says:

    Fuck those leo lovin’ cosksuckers! One day I will find they’re secret hideout. It’s not a clubhouse because they hide like the rats they are. Too scared to really stand up and say “Here we are” like a real club the cowardly fucks. Sorry for the rant Respect to those who’ve trully earned it Tiger

  43. Goldsboro Williams Says:

    @nonymous: I don’t think you need to look at the Blue Knights as ‘pretenders’ of a sort. I rode with them once on an invite, and it was the most boring day of my life. Most were on Goldwings, talking to each other with mics on their helmets. Several were towing trailers, which, instead of being full of beer were instead filled with hibachis, yard games, etc..

    It was like being at a church picnic. A Mormon church at that.

  44. @nonymous Says:

    The urine order will never be a part of this world, just like their buddies the blue knights, etc. Im not worried about em. Got em pretty weel.schooled where im at.

  45. YYZ Skinhead Says:


    Those are some killer sleds! Props for the link.

    YYZ Skinhead

  46. SingSing Says:

    Wow. This has been an interesting forum. For sure. Im ridin Independant. Tried the club thing. Its cool for those who want it. Philo n Rebel speak gospel about this life. here is an open ended question to other riders out there..
    I notice so many divisions and micro-divisions within “The Life” that ive actually grown a bit disillusioned about it a bit. I ACCEPT and EMBRACE the FACT that many many Bikers (of the Ol Skool variety) have bled, been jailed and have died for this life of ours. I, for one, am very grateful that the real deal ol school bikers who’ve paved the ways and thru the way they lived their lives solidified “The Code” by which im still hoping we all try to conduct ourselves by. I have the utmosty respect for the strenth of purpose and sacrifices PH’s have made for them just to EARN their colors so i agree with the feeling of indignation that our world has towards those that DONT FOLLOW proper protocol. In my time ridin ive been with a few clubs n ive learned certain things that only ridin with those clubs would have enabled me to learn. For that im thankful for the brothers who pulled my coat tail and placed the bug in my ear bout “certain” codes of conduct. having said that I decided it best for me and my untamed character to break outta the club thing as it just wasnt for me. But i respect and understand the rules of the game. Even with some of the Christian clubs i notice a thread of division. Its a shame. Imagine what clout we’d all have if we all put aside all these bullshit games of “who’s a real Biker and who isnt”. We should all just shut up n ride. The “Posers” will soon enough cancel each other out and after the dust clears only the “REAL” Bikers will be left standing for all to see who the REAL ones are-and who arent. Just my worthless two cents. Ride with Jesus all. God ride with you all!

  47. Shyster Says:

    Very well said Glenn S.




    Times are changing! Check out the bikes.
    I came across these on the internet, so I thought I’d share them with you.

  49. Rashomon Says:

    I actually liked the old days when they’d haul you in, beat you around the head with a phone book and throw you out again – everybody knew exactly where they stood and life went on. I was usually guilty of something anyhow so you’d take your lumps and move on – these days it’s a whole different ball game unfortunately and no fun at all.

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