Will Doc Cavazos Flip

October 23, 2008

All Posts, Features, News

Maybe the Feds have the Mongols by the huevos. Maybe after, numerous attempts over the last 30 years, the Department of Justice is finally, actually going to deconstruct a major outlaw motorcycle club. Maybe not. But, don’t dismiss the possibility.

“The future right now,” former Mongol Tony Vodnik rhetorically asked the Associated Press yesterday. Vodnik was one of about 200 Mongols patch holders purged by ex-Mongols President Ruben “Doc” Cavazos. “Well it’s kind of hard to say. Hopefully the club will always be out there.”

Hopefully but maybe not. Maybe this is it for the Mongols.

First of all, in all the world there are probably only 600 Mongols and right now about 10 percent of them are in jail. Who is going to pay the suits? Criminal lawyers are expensive. And, the Feds have also sent the Mongols a bill for $5,000,000.

Bye Bye Mongols Patch

The Feds are already seeking the permanent forfeiture of the “intellectual rights” to the Mongols trademarked name and logo. Yesterday, U.S. District Court Judge Florence-Marie Cooper granted an injunction that prohibits gang members, their family members and associates from wearing, licensing, selling or distributing the Mongols patch which depicts the head of a Mongol warrior wearing sunglasses and smoking a cigarette.

Starting today, any cop anywhere who sees anyone wearing a set of Mongols colors can confiscate them on sight. Which is exactly the sort of things cops dream.

And so, there goes even the club income from the “Support Your Local Mongols” coffee cup business. Maybe there goes the Mongols.

Cavazos Property Of

Even more important than the money, right this minute, the Feds own Ruben “Doc” Cavazos. Right this minute, all those Dudley Do Rights own Cavazos’ house, car, motorcycles, guns, his son, his credit cards and his bank accounts.

Cavazos, who has become almost famous as the leader of the Mongols, was voted out of the club “in bad standing” at a meeting in Vernon, CA on August 30. Apparently, a majority of the membership believed Cavazos was stealing from the club and was provoking a war with the Mexican Mafia.

Apparently, many Mongols and ex-Mongols have thought Cavazos was stealing from the club for a long time.

Exiled Mongols Speak

“Doc was all about the money,” former Mongols President Roger Pinney told the AP. Cavazos was “out for himself and not the brotherhood of the club.”

“I heard on one run he made $900,000. That’s a lot of money,” former member Vodnik said. “He was stripping the club of money. That was the club’s money not his money…No President is supposed to gain from the club. And he bought houses, bikes, cars for his son and his brother.”


Cavazos is on his own. And, because of the enemies he has made, he is very unlikely to be greeted by friends in prison. He might become the first motorcycle outlaw in the history of motorcycle outlaws to do his time in protective custody. If, that is, he does his time.

If Cavazos does his time he will not be able to return to his club because it is no longer his club. They are no longer his brothers. Right now Cavazos might get turned down by HOG. He has burned so many bridges behind him that it might be a good idea for Cavazos if he just stays away from all motorcyclists everywhere forever.

Doc Cavazos, however, is not completely painted into a corner. He has repeatedly demonstrated a real actual talent for self promotion. He has a book out. He has been on TV. He has a most excellent, Beverly Hills agent. He is printed by a leading publisher. He is not shy. He seems confidant that he can pull anything off. All of which brings to mind another famous piece of Federal property.

Sammy The Bull Gravano

Sammy “the Bull” Gravano was a tough guy’s tough guy. He was plain spoken, taciturn and camera shy. He was a business man, a family man and a ladies man. He had the blood of a couple of dozen other tough guys on his hands. Nobody ever thought Sonny Gravano would flip. Then he sang like a canary.

So far, nobody has ever exactly accused Cavazos of being Gravano. But, it is an absolute certainty that if “Doc” Cavazos flips, the Mongols Motorcycle Club is toast.

You see this. This morning, everyone sees this.

One hand weighs the rest of a life in a really crappy prison on constant guard from the contracts that have been placed on one’s head by La Eme, the Brand and the BGF. The other hand weighs four or five years in a mediocre motel room on an Army base followed by a new beginning in, oh say, Ka’u, under the shadow of the volcano on the Big Island. Or, worst case, a little fishing village in Alaska.

You see this. And, if you see this the Federales see this. The Feds saw this coming months ago.

Operation Black Rain

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) is the Federal law enforcement agency that investigates outlaw motorcycle clubs. Over the last decade, the ATF has carried out largely unfruitful infiltrations of the Vagos in Los Angeles, the Sons of Silence in Colorado and the Hells Angels in Arizona.

The ATF has also infiltrated the Mongols once before. The “Under and Alone” undercover agent that time was a man named Billy Queen, whom it is rumored, will be portrayed by Mel Gibson in a forthcoming movie.

It is not certain but it is possible that the ATF learned something from all its previous failures.

The evidence with which the Department of Justice will attempt to prosecute the Mongols Motorcycle Club was gathered by eight ATF agents and four snitches, or cooperating witnesses. Four of the ATF agents prospected and patched with the Mongols. Four Female agents impersonated their old ladies. Additionally, it appears that most of the Mongols’ cell phones were tapped.


The Feds are prosecuting the Mongols under the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act (RICO.) RICO was enacted as part of the Organized Crime Control Act of 1970. It was written to ease the prosecution of organized crime bosses who might carry out a discernible pattern of criminal activity through subordinates while they actually committed no criminal act themselves.

The acronym RICO was contrived as a reference to the classic Edward G. Robinson gangster film Little Caesar. The film was intended to portray Al Capone and the Capone-like crime boss played by Robinson in that film called himself Rico.

RICO works best against associations that are organized into a hierarchy that can be drawn as a pyramid. In a perfect RICO case, a clear connection can be shown between a leader or leaders at the top of the pyramid and followers at the bottom of the pyramid.

And, it is the absence of this clearly discernible, highly organized structure that has made it virtually impossible to prosecute motorcycle clubs under the RICO statute.

In United States v. Barger in 1979 the Department of Justice unsuccessfully prosecuted several members of the Oakland Charter of the Hells Angels Motorcycle Club using RICO. But all the jurors could see was a motorcycle club that had some criminals for members. And the RICO case fell apart.

The Mongols And Rico

The problem the Mongols have right now is that Ruben “Doc” Cavazos was clearly in charge. And, on top of that, the Mongols have already voted that Cavazos was running the club for his own profit. There have even been allegations that Cavazos was pocketing each new member’s $500 prospecting fee.

And, Cavazos was apparently not declaring any of this on his income tax. One of the charges in the indictment is money laundering.

So all of this might actually look like a fairly well defined, top to bottom, pyramid shaped crime organization to a jury of good, straight citizens. It could be.

The federal indictment alleges that the Mongols were a “criminal enterprise…involved in a wide range of criminal activity including murder, hate crimes against African-Americans, assaults, firearms violations and narcotics trafficking.”

Making Sense Of The Indictment

This is a 177 page indictment that attempts to throw everything down to and including the kitchen sink at the Mongols. The crimes, or “overt acts,” enumerated in the indictment fall into the following categories:

* Minor drug and firearms crimes;
* crimes that will seem particularly egregious and offensive to jurors;
* major drug crimes;
* murders and attempted murders;
* and crimes committed by Doc Cavazos, his son “Little Rubes” Cavazos and a few close associates to expand, enhance and enrich a Cavazos criminal organization.

Minor Drug And Firearms Offenses

Small drug and gun offenses comprise most of the indictment. For example:

“On November 17, 2005, defendant William ‘Moreno” Ramirez is alleged to have possessed a .22 caliber rifle, a 12-gauge shotgun, an M-1 carbine .30 caliber rifle, a .45 caliber handgun, a .38 caliber revolver, ammunition, and numerous articles of clothing that identified his membership in the Mongols gang, at a residence in Montebello, California.”

And, again:

“On October 21, 2005, by telephone using coded language, defendant Jorge Viramontes arranged to sell approximately 28 grams of cocaine and 14 grams of methamphetamine to an undercover law enforcement officer.”

Crimes That Will Offend Jurors

Prosecutors can’t wait to tell jurors a few allegations that include:

“On October 9, 2005, multiple Mongols members, riding in a pack of motorcycles and wearing Mongols riding vests, attacked motorists on the highway near Palm Springs, California, by using their motorcycles to ‘trap’ the vehicles between them while a Mongol attempted to stab the motorists with a knife.”

Oh no! The Mongols tried to stab Grandma on her way to her golf game!

And, since there is a good chance that the jury that decides this case may include a black face or two, there are also several allegations like the following:

“On December 10, 2006, defendants Shawn Buss, Robert Vincent Rios, Abram Wedig and Joseph Braden attacked and beat an African-American patron at the Tokio Lounge in Hollywood, California, while shouting racist slurs at the victim.”

Major Drug Crimes

The amount of the drugs stated in a couple of the charges obviously exceeds the usual amount consumed by average recreational users.

“On September 18, 2007, in San Bernardino, California, defendants Rafael Lozano, Harold Reynolds and Ismael Padilla and an unindicted co-conspirator armed themselves with firearms and arranged to purchase 33 kilograms of cocaine with an undercover law enforcement officer and a confidential government informant.”

Needless to say, 33 keys is a phrase that wakes up jurors.

Murders And Attempted Murders

All together, the government is alleging dozens of counts homicide and attempted homicide and the indictment hints that additional counts may be prosecuted in state court.

“On February 14, 2007, defendants Norberto Jose Montes and Austin Melcer beat L.H. to death at ‘Young’s Tavern’ in Lancaster, California.”

And again:

“On or about April 8, 2007, in Los Angeles County, within the Central District of California, defendant Denis Maldonado willfully, deliberately, and with premeditation, unlawfully attempted to kill with malice aforethought M.G. and Z.S.”

Ruben Doc Cavazos

Doc Cavazos is portrayed in the indictment as being the mastermind behind an almost purely criminal organization. The specifics are too numerous to even adequately sample here. But, almost at random, the charges include the following.

In the General Allegations of the indictment Cavazos is alleged to:

* “negotiate with Mexican Mafia representatives concerning the collection of “tax” payments for the narcotics trafficking activities of Mongols members in areas otherwise controlled by the Mexican Mafia.”

* “direct Mongols members to travel to different locations and commit acts of violence, including murder, against rival gang members, law enforcement or other persons who would challenge the authority of the Mongols criminal enterprise.” And,

* “conduct financial transactions to conceal the proceeds derived from the crimes of the organization and convert those proceeds to promote the crimes of the Mongols and enrich themselves.”

Most perilous for the former Mongols president is that the government seems to have multiple witnesses who will testify that Cavazos ran an aggressive, for profit, criminal enterprise across state line and national borders.

While his phone was being tapped Cavazos “advised approximately 200 members that Mongols should be alert to the possibility of wiretap monitoring by federal law enforcement agents and should be careful not to discuss incriminating matters on the telephone, and Cavazos also discussed criminal investigations conducted by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, as well as the risk to the Mongols of prosecution for its racketeering crimes.”

In April, 2006 “Cavazos addressed a Mongols ‘All Members’ Meeting in Baja, Mexico, and advised members that the Mongols would ‘exterminate’ the ‘rats’ who had provided incriminating information about (him) to law enforcement.”

In July, 2007 Cavazos “and others conducted a Mongols ‘Presidents and Sergeant-at-Arms’ meeting in Los Angeles County, California, and Cavazos told members that they needed to demonstrate the ‘strength and muscle’ of the Mongols and described the expansion of the Mongols gang into other states across the nation, and Cavazos discussed the need to use violence to expand the authority of the Mongols into new areas not previously controlled by the Mongols.”

What Do You Think

Do you think it might just be possible that the Feds have some of this on audio tape? Is it possible that they might have this on video?

“On February 5, 2008, by telephone using coded language, defendants Cavazos and William Michael Munz discussed the Mongols’ conflicts with the Mexican Mafia based on the Mongols’ refusal to pay ‘taxes’ to ‘La Eme’ for their narcotics trafficking and the consequences of Mongols members entering protective custody while in prison.”

Protective custody?

But Wait There’s More

“On March 11, 2008, by telephone, defendant Cavazos discussed preparing a story on the Mongols with a news reporter, and Cavazos told the reporter that he could provide specific details about a Mongols murder committed at a tattoo shop and involving the Mexican Mafia, including information about the planning and preparation for the murder.”

With a news reporter!? He talked about a murder with a reporter!?

“On July 24, 2008, by telephone using coded language, defendant Hector Gonzalez told a confidential government informant that he delivered approximately $15,000 to $17,000 in United States currency from Mongols chapters every month to defendants Cavazos and Ruben Cavazos, Jr.; that Cavazos had directed him to

destroy the records of collecting the funds; and that the funds collected were now missing.”

Fifteen thousand to $17,000 every month. What are the chances a jury will determine that the Mongols were a for-profit criminal enterprise?

Life Is Full Of Hard Choices

In The Friends of Eddie Coyle by the late George V. Higgins, a gun runner named Jackie Brown speaks the nine truest words every imagined in the English language: “Life is hard. But it’s harder when you’re stupid.”

With all due respect to Ruben Cavazos, his Beverly Hills agent, his publisher and any admirers he may still have, with all due and sincere respect to present and former members of the Mongols Motorcycle Club, your club and your former president seemed to have behaved really stupidly.

Maybe the Feds don’t have a case. Maybe they are just making all this up.

But also, just maybe, at this very moment, Ruben “Doc” Cavazos is sitting alone in a cell at FCI Terminal Island in Long Beach, in protective custody, weighing something invisible in his hands. Moving whatever it is from hand to hand. Maybe what he has in one hand is the weight of a soul and in the other hand he holds the weight of a last chance at a life. Which is more? Which weighs more?

And at this same moment, 20 miles north of Terminal Island prison, in the Federal Building in Westwood, a committee of lawyers and politicians are weighing something, too. And, what they are weighing is even lighter than a man’s destiny.

They are weighing what will be the most important question of their precious government careers. They are weighing the question among themselves. They are asking, “Who do we want more? The Mongols Motorcycle Club or Doc Cavazos?”

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86 Responses to “Will Doc Cavazos Flip”

  1. Kendrick Guhl Says:

    Brain injury attorney ?

  2. willienelso3 Says:

    here’s something I found from a legal scholar:

    I recently obtained the latest edition of West’s Criminal Code and Rules, the book containing the rules you need to know if you are ever accused of a federal criminal offense. The book is updated every year, and each new edition supersedes the prior edition. It gets worse every year.

    …In practice, the federal courts overwhelmingly favor the government, and the rules of procedure are loaded with tricks and traps for the poor and the unwary. Anyone who faces the federal government in court knows that these “protections” are elusive, far-fetched, and in some cases illusionary.

    “Most so-called defense lawyers shiver in fear at the thought of trying to actually “defend” a client from a federal prosecution. Most begin their “defense” by seeking a plea bargain.

    …A recurring trick in federal court occurs when “defense” lawyers convince their clients to plead guilty to what a defendant believes is a minor count of a large indictment, in exchange for the government dropping other counts. After the guilty plea, a sentencing investigation is conducted by the U.S. Probation office (which is theoretically neutral but which in practice works closely with the prosecution). The Probation Office’s “presentence investigation report” invariably recommends a sentence consistent with conviction on all the counts that were “dropped” by the government in the plea deal, and the defendant is then sentenced according to the worst allegations of the prosecution (without any ability to challenge such allegations at a trial). The lawbooks are literally filled with appeals of such sentences. I have read many dozens of these cases. There are probably hundreds.

    What makes the Federal Criminal Code truly despicable is its disguise as a code of fair and equal procedural protections. Indeed, this deception makes West’s Federal Criminal Code and Rules worthy of inclusion among other infamously cruel books of human history. …The Federal Criminal Code documents the advancement of coordinated, systematic scheme of state tyrannical control – with a procedural overlay.

    January 4, 2011

    Dr. Roger Roots, J.D., Ph.D. has recently authored a detailed article on the unfairness of the Federal Rules of Procedure for the American Journal of Trial Advocacy.

    Copyright © 2011 by LewRockwell.com. Permission to reprint in whole or in part is gladly granted, provided full credit is given.

  3. BigV Says:

    Rebel: Good to see you on, good to see you’re still working with the book. Stay strong.

    Would it help, if we your loyal readers would drown a group of publishers/agents with emails requesting your book ? Or in support of publishing your book ?

    Still think a Paypal Donate link would be a good idea too.

    Take care, sir.

  4. Rebel Says:

    Dear Neto Rod,

    I think that more than any weakness in Doc Cavazos’ personality, it was the ATF as an institution, whispering in his ear, giving him Old School and greasing his slide that led to Doc’s downfall. To a large extent, the ATF took over big chunks of Doc’s club. Literally man, the ATF was handing out patches. I know Doc is a lightening rod. Doc Cavazos deserves his blame. But the whole fucking army of people who spent $150 million, that’s nine figures partner, so they could effect the arrests of 80 guys for like, selling eighths, or in the case of Face Reynolds for being in the audience while the ATF staged a “guerilla theater” performance, has always been the story for me.

    I promise, I will tell you all that story, at least the way I see it, pretty soon now. I know I owe that story to a lot of guys. Trust me when I say I take that responsibility seriously. I am getting there. Just been a rough year. Real soon now. The Chicano thing I wouldn’t know about. I am pretty Anglo.

    But enjoy your cinco de Mayo. I will spend some of mine in Old Town Montebello.


  5. Neto Rod 68 Says:

    Regardless of what Doc decides to do, you want to live the life of a gangster, eventually you’re going to get busted. You take whatever comes with the territory on the chin. Doing time is part of being a gangster, you don’t snitch and you take your time like a big boy. No ones saying Doc is not going to do his time, all this publicity has to go away. Doc’s biggest mistake _ he loved the limelight ! He liked it so much, it brought him and the Mongols down ! All you do is get up dust yourself off, and go at it again. The mongols will rise again, I believe that, mexicanos are strong !

  6. G PA Says:

    Black & White sylo

  7. Wolfman Says:

    In todays world with all the bullshit going on out there you have to be careful who you hang with. Since 9/11 most of America will give up their freedoms in order to feel safe. I ride with an all American motorcycle club and not the ones named after hoards,clans,foreign nations,and mayham. We are kind of like the law enforcement motorcycle club called the Choir Boys who are left alone because they are all are legally allowed to pack and wear armor. Be careful out their as the times are a changing.

  8. Lawlor Horan Says:

    what would b the ideal beginner’s workout routine for me? 4-5 day routine?


    original? was that from the start up guy’s


    sold where ? did you read it on the net or hear it was on ebay

  11. solo Says:

    I heard an original mongols vest just sold for $20,000 dollars.

  12. Not Surprised Says:

    I doubt the Mongols are dead, though it may have appeared that way some while back. I also doubt anyone is shaking in their Nikes. Why stir shit?


    Mongols are dead ? Give it a month bro

  14. theone Says:


  15. ShamWowGuy Says:

    Shit! I think the Red and White should get the real members of the Mongols (the few that are left) to patchover and come over for the “Big Win”.

  16. Friend of the black and white Says:

    So sad but fuck it move on brother’s of the black and white “the mongels” might be the feds but mongol nation is not. And when shotgun and the crew said fuck you to HA there where only a hand full of brothers back in the old car club times and early lowrider transition.

  17. raiderchef Says:

    Mongols are dead but “Black and White Nation” have started to appear?? you figure it out!!!!!

  18. lena Says:

    To ‘JUST A BIKER’:

    A comment—-


    I heard that Ruben appointed himself when the actual Pres was recovering from an injury or something like that….is that true?

  19. Rebel Says:

    Dear Not Surprised,

    Yeah. Pretty much. The legal argument comes down to this: Was the Mongols Motorcycle Club like a nightclub or was it more like a congregation. There are a couple of Mongols defense lawyers who seem to get this but I am not sure the guy who is representing Mongols Nation Inc. does.

    The government says the Mongols MC was like a nightclub. So it does not matter whether Doc owned it or not. He was running it. He agrees he was running it. Scores of defendants agree he was running it. So the government has the right to seize it. Whether he actually owned it or not.

    The Corporation lawyer seems determined to prove that Doc does not actually own the club which is kind of fatuous and beside the point. Really, the Mongols best bet here is probably to reach out to the ACLU and try to make this a Second Amendment case.

    My opinion anyway.

    Thanks for commenting.

    Your pal,

  20. Not Surprised Says:

    Doc signed away the trademark rights to the Mongols logo. Effective January 2010, all intellectual property, including the right to prosecute “violators”, will belong to the Federal government.

    The ban in effect now was originally slated to be argued in court in an attempt to have it apply only to those named in the indictment. Because of the structure of club hierarchy, RICO allows for the “boss” to have legal recourse to voluntarily forfeit “assets”. “Shotgun Productions”, a shadow corporation, is the legal registered owner of the Mongols logo and the corporate entity of all licensing and marketing of the logo.

    In seeking ownership, the Federal government has the right to impose both civil and criminal actions against copyright infringement, which would include anyone wearing the logo without express consent.

    It would have been an interesting legal battle were it to ever reach a court room. This is now not to be.

    Also, the Federal government will continue to add to its coffers any and all proceeds from continued sales of Doc’s book. In fact, the Federal government will now have total editorial control over movies or television productions, including the power to grant or deny such endeavors.

    There is no law on the books by which this can be made retroactive. All this means is that private ownership of “licensed” material previously obtained, such as “support gear” or publications cannot be interfered with. However, this does NOT aply to articles which bear both the name “Mongols” and the logo if used in a fashion the Federal government may deem as “promotion of a criminal enterprise”.

    This is the absolute end of the “Mongols MC” as it has existed. not the club members themselves, but their public identity.

  21. Rebel Says:

    Dear Scooter,

    Say what you want about the Teflon Don, Gotti never wrote his memoirs and called than “MY Life As A Gambino,” which is just about what Doc did.
    Thanks for reading.


  22. scooter Says:

    Looks like Doc felt the full weight of the DOJ (and their endless resources), not to mention a possible ride in the hot seat, crashing down on his wide shoulders. Rebel, so good of you to make mention of the absurd shoulder rolling and ridiculous sniffing in his big TV debut. Hysterical! The reason he got nailed, and the reason he will drag dozens, if not hundreds, of people down with him is that he is a hopeless narcissist, as well as an opportunist deluxe. So sad to see him literally deliver a 1% club right into the hands of waiting ATF agents and DOJ prosecutors. The guy went on TV for fuck’s sake! Who
    does this?! I don’t think a high profile media image is great news for a 1% outfit. John Gotti did the same shit and sat in a jail cell while the Gambino family was torn to shreds by state and federal prosecutors. I don’t know what makes a “tough guy” in the world of the hardcore 1%, but showing up on the History Channel, with your own son as your second in command, strikes me as more of business decision than a move to make the Mongols the baddest crew on two wheels.
    And this shit with La Eme is just beyond me. Who worse to start a war with? You will never see active La Eme hierarchy giving interviews on the History Channel. Did Doc lose his mind, or was he just poorly advised? He knows very well that he would not live a week in any state prison anywhere courtsey of La Eme, but a federal prosecution would save him that possibility. His best bet would be in isolation in a federal lock-up, but he won’t go for that. If he plead guilty, then a deal was made. Doc did what he knows how to do: save his own hide. It just seems an incredible waste to see an organization, outlaw or not, that grown men actually laid down their lives for be smashed to pieces. 1% bikers might see the world in terms of top rockers and respect, but outsiders often see it in terms of people that chose to lay down everything they had for their friends, and people they considered their brothers. It just seems a total waste to me that they spend one minute fighting each other, since I am 100% positive that no HA ever served as lead prosecutor in an Outlaw RICO trial, and no Bandido ever committed millions of dollars of taxpayer money to convicting a Mongol. A fundamental cause of every war lost is not knowing who you are fighting.


  23. Interested Party Says:

    Former biker gang leader pleads guilty in fed case – July 7, 2009 – California – AP – The former national president of the Mongols motorcycle gang has pleaded guilty to a racketeering conspiracy charge in a case that accused some members of drug trafficking, murder and violent attacks.

    Prosecutors revealed the guilty plea of Ruben “Doc” Cavazos in court papers filed last month. He could face up to 20 years in prison when he is sentenced in Feb.

    A phone message left with Cavazos’ attorney Angel Navarro was not immediately returned Tuesday.

    Prosecutors say Cavazos and other Mongol leaders directed members to engage in murders, extortion, robberies and drug trafficking to bolster the group.

    Some of the 79 members indicted have already pleaded guilty to a variety of charges, but most of the plea agreements are still sealed.

    Article URL: http://www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_12769582

  24. JAMES Says:


  25. Doc Jones Says:

    Hey Rebel,
    I think the way that you are responding to the many postings is right on target. None of us knows what has happened or what is going to happen. As for you being a cop, nobody knows whether you are or aren’t except you. I don’t get the feeling that you are a cop. In fact I would be very surprised if you are. What would you gain from it? NOTHING!! It’s just an insulting comment from a lame!! It does seem that some Mongols have or will turn rat. I know that if I was one of them I would be very concerned. During my past life of crime I saw several tough guys turn rat. They couldn’t hold their mud because they were too self centered and selfish. They looked pretty bad, all buffed and whatever, but when things got hairy they pissed their panties. I’ve done around twelve years and I’m proud to say that I have never ratted. I did what I did and I accepted the consequences like a man should. I didn’t even rat on the guys who ratted on me. What I got in return is that I’m accepted wherever I go even though I am now straight. I’m applying for a certificate of rehabilitation which will allow me to legally own a gun and get a better job. Maybe some of the people responding to this site might want to get their lives together too. I feel much better not breaking the law. I still ride and even ride with a club, not as a supporter or hang around, but as a friend of several members. I’ve had these friends for over 30 years. I have a lot of fun without the responsibilities of being a member. Just thought that maybe someone might want to choose the path that I have taken. Life can be pretty darn good!!

  26. 5150 Says:

    So there saying they want to keep all brothers locked up, Have there ol’ ladys and children become homeless due to there abscent father. Is this why I cant get a job. Ive been looking now for over ayear. I KNOW I am very knowledgable in what I do. Am always praised by the employer on how impressed they are from my experience. But for some reason they get my backround check and I never hear back from them. Or I just get BS excuses… Any other ol lady’s having this problem? How much longer till i can get a Damn job!!

  27. Rebel Says:

    Dear Quid,

    I hear you. Do you know what a gallows speech is? In England, when there were public hangings, the condemned used to compete to see who could give the most amusing farewell to all of this. And, then they would die. I think Doc might be preparing his gallows speech. Or maybe he is looking for a way out.

    I will tell you this. Old Doc sure is deep under cover in this legal proceeding. Doc and Lil Rubes and Al the Suit. Lil Rubes had a meeting with the judge out of hearing of the prosecution, as they say, back in the middle of February. Pretty quiet since then.

    I am not going to hang any of them out to dry until I have a smoking gun. Just courtesy, you know. I got some fucking moron on this site right at this minute who is telling everybody I am a cop.
    I don’t like that. If I was Doc and I had been renditioned to Guantanamo or wherever he is, I wouldn’t want some fucking guy named Rebel calling me a rat unless he knew for sure.

    I don’t know for sure. Kind of seems logical but I do not know. For sure.

    your pal,

  28. Quid est Veritas Says:

    Pilate was no John Chiccione. Doc Cavazos is no messiah. I disagree with your assesment that Doc is tough.

    Hitler was not tough. He was effective but lacked personal courage. The man who gave the world meth amphetamine, shot himself. Not in the foot either.

    In the end, Cavazos likley will not rat unless he can give up some crooked LEO. He will not rat, but not because of loyalty or courage or honor. What motivates him is vanity. He beleived he WAS the Mongols, maybe he still does.

    If he can curry favor by a plea bargain, that is more his style I think.

  29. pretjah Says:

    Rebel…no bro thank you man…i’m checking out your site daily trying to get my fix on what’s happening with this case.

  30. Rebel Says:

    Dear Pretjah,

    The government has seized the Mongols patch and trademark and under copyright law, the government must make some commercial use of the patch in order to retain rights to it. Personally, I think they will rent the patch and trademarked name, “Mongols,” to the movies.

    For example, Mel Gibson’s production company, Icon, owns the rights to Billy Queen’s book about the Mongols. Now Gibson can make the movie and use the real, actual Mongols patch.

    In the Fox television drama, Sons of Anarchy, the role of the Mongols is portrayed by a fictional club called the Mayans. Well, now the Sons of Anarchy can go to war on television with the real Mongols! Wearing real, actual Mongols patches leased from the Justice Department!

    You know what Pontius Pilate said about truth? He said Quid Veritas? “Truth? What is truth?” Pilate won in the short term. Whether the Mongols Motorcycle Club will be remembered 300 years from now or not, I do not know.

    Thanks for reading.

    your pal,

  31. pretjah Says:

    i have to say, as a person who has ZERO ties to any party involved and doesn’t have even the smallest idea as what is true or not, this story is better than anything hollywood could ever write.

    of course i’m sure in a few years when it’s all over with and many variations of the “truth” have come out we will see will smith playing a mongol or an ATF agent in a summer block buster

  32. Joe Says:

    hahhaaha thats some good shit!! I think he has already flipped!! LOL

  33. Rebel Says:

    Dear Joe,

    Ruben “Doc” Cavazos is not in the BOP Locator because he is not in the custody of the Bureau of Prisons. He is in the custody of the Federal Court for the Central District of California. His custody may have been relinquished to the United States Marshalls Service because he is a “high profile” prisoner.

    I know what you want to hear, okay.

    Almost eight months ago, I raised the question on this site, “Will Doc Cavazos Flip?” I still do not know. I know Doc Cavazos was the President of a major motorcycle club. I have always considered the Mongols to be serious guys. Cavazos was the President of the Mongols. And, I also think that if Doc Cavazos goes to Hell it will be for the sin of pride and not for cowardice.

    I am pretty sure he has heard, “Come on, Why don’t you help me help you?”

    But, I do not know that his reply was not, “Fuck you, you fucking cop asshole fuck!”

    I don’t know. I don’t have my own spy satellite.

    This whole case may be about putting Doc Cavazos on death row. I think it is about something bigger than that, personally, but it is somewhere between possible and probable that when this trial starts, if it ever starts, Doc Cavazos will be standing there in belly cuffs and leg irons; rolling his shoulders, tossing his head back and sniffing proudly.

    If Doc does flip let me just warn you that you will not hear about it here first. A United States Attorney will call a trustworthy reporter at the Los Angeles Times and that guy will break the news. He will win a journalism prize for it, too. He will get a book deal. He will pen, as they say in Variety, the movie script. He will become rich. He will be linked romantically to Denise Richards. That is the guy who will break the news if Doc flips.

    Not me, I am sorry to say. I am too stupid to know how to be that other guy. But, I do have a more interesting life. Except for the Denise Richards part.

    Okay? Answer your question? Check the BOP Locator again in, maybe, February 2010.

    Your pal,

  34. Joe Says:

    Rebel, great page!! you dont think Doc has filpped? I ask this because if you go on the BOP.GOV inmate locator, Doc dont exist!!! PC? WITSEC??



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