The Agent Who Became Lost

February 21, 2010

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“On November 15, 2006,” according to a government document, “Special Agent Daniel Hebert of ATF’s New Orleans Field Office” officially reported that he had spoken to an unnamed Hells Angel. The unnamed Angel told Hebert he had talked to a club brother named Doug Wistrom and he had learned from Wistrom that the Hells Angels were “going to start our campaign against (ATF Special Agent Jay) Dobyns. We know where he is….”

Where Dobyns was that November was hiding out in Los Angeles. The bright, big nowhere was his fourth city in two years. Tucson had yielded to the wine country around Santa Maria, California. From there Dobyns was transferred to El Lay which was a doorway to what the ATF has described as a “covert apartment” in Washington, DC. Then in June 2006 he was ordered back to the TMZ which had always been his first choice.

In Los Angeles the ATF started threatening to transfer Dobyns yet again. According to Dobyns, his supervisor told him that he “had worn out his welcome with ATF. If I have my way,” the supervisor continued, “you’ll spend the rest of your career in Headquarters or Guam. I am familiar with Anderson Air Force Base there. It is a postage stamp in the middle of nowhere. A perfect place for you to finish your career.” As Dobyns describes it, he was not surprised. He already thought the ATF was out to get him.

Significant Activity Report

Hebert’s “Significant Activity Report” described the fourth rumored threat Dobyns had heard during his exodus. The last one turned out to be almost magically ironic. When the ATF asked the New Orleans Agent to elaborate, Hebert replied that his source was “often full of crap.” And, then he explained that the campaign to which his snitch had referred, “was more of a legal nature, such as lawsuits and all.”

Dobyns insists that there was more to the threat than that. He claims that the Hells Angels Motorcycle Club “intended to sue” him “in civil court with the intention of getting him fired.” Once he was “outside of ATF protection” the motorcycle club was going to murder him. And, according to Dobyns version, before the unnamed Angels murdered him they were going to “arrange and videotape the gang rape” of his wife.

So now, in February 2010, I conclude it must have been just about November of 2006 that Jay Dobyns became lost. Life does not need turning points but stories do.

Describing him as “lost” may be a way of making excuses for Dobyns. I want to make excuses for him. I do not want to think that he is as crazy and greedy and hungry for fame as he seems. Jay Dobyns is an immensely likable guy: Man’s man, been shot, good athlete, humble, plain spoken and the ATF hates him. The first thing I ever said to Dobyns was something like, “I can see how you got over on the Angels.”

But, my attitude toward the guy swings like a pendulum. I sympathize with him until I glance up at my favorite Jay Dobyns quote. It is something he told a writer named Julian Sher in 2004 or 2005 and when I sat down to write this I scribbled the quote on a post-it note and stuck that note on the upper left corner of my computer screen. On the note Jay says, “I know I can get over on people.”

The Prophecy

Dobyns adventures have been recounted so many times; he has given so many interviews and so much testimony; he has said so many contradictory things and so many contradictory things have been said about him that he has become thoroughly camouflaged in a cloud of confusion. At the same time, people who know nothing about bikers or motorcycle clubs know the name Jay Dobyns.

Threats two, three and four against Dobyns were all reported by snitches hoping to score a couple of gold stars from some government agent. Threat one came in anger, over drinks in a Tucson bar, when a Hells Angel named Robert McKay allegedly told Dobyns that he was “a marked man” who was “going to spend the rest of his life on the run.” McKay was arrested the next day for threatening a federal agent and in his memoir Dobyns portrays McKay’s arrest as an investigative victory.

An author named Kerrie Droban published a book about Dobyns three years ago. It is called Running With The Devil and that title alludes to McKay and Dobyn’s conversation. According to Droban, McKay’s exact words were, “We’ll find you. We’ll get you. For the rest of your life you’ll be running from the devil.”

Well, maybe McKay said that. I don’t know for sure. I haven’t checked with McKay and neither Droban nor Dobyns has told me what the exact words really were. An ATF Agent named Darrin Kozlowski is supposed to have been with Dobyns that evening so I guess he could confirm the quote. But, I have been looking for Kozlowski and it is starting to looking like Kozlowski doesn’t want me to find him. So, I have to go by my instincts and my instincts say Droban probably made up the quote.

I wish she hadn’t. It is such a good quote I wish I could have led this story with that. It is like the moment Macbeth meets the witches on the dark and foggy moor. Because from the lofty perch of here and now McKay’s pronouncement does not look like a threat at all. It looks like a prophesy. Or a curse.

Jay Who

Jay Dobyns is a former University of Arizona football star and a long time ATF Agent who was posing as a freelance gun dealer in Bullhead City, Arizona in the Spring of 2002. He says he was drinking with some Hells Angels in a bar in the Flamingo in Laughlin, Nevada when a memorable biker brawl erupted up Casino Road in Harrah’s. Other accounts say Dobyns was playing cards and frolicking with his peers in a safe house the night of the brawl.

Wherever he was he was close enough to the action to become one of the lead Agents on the scene. When the ATF decided to launch an undercover investigation of the Hells Angels in Arizona it became Jay Dobyns’ case.

The investigation soon incorporated the brutal murder of a woman named Cynthia Garcia who had allegedly visited the Hells Angels Mesa Clubhouse, offended her hosts, been beaten then thrown into a car trunk and murdered in the desert outside town. In an attempt to conceal her identity her murderers are said to have tried to behead her and gruesomely failed.

The upshot was a largely unsuccessful, law enforcement drama called Operation Black Biscuit. Dobyns and other amateur thespians posed as a chapter of the Solo Angeles CM, a motorcycle club with chapters in southern California and northern Baja Mexico. He ingratiated himself to various Hells Angels in Arizona, California and Nevada; hung around the club; bought and sold suspicious amounts of guns and drugs; prospected with the Skull Valley charter; pretended to murder a Mongol in Mexico; and, in 2003, he had fifty of his new best friends arrested.

The case was trumpeted as a long sought victory of good over evil and Dobyns was routinely described as a “hero” and a “super agent.” Dobyns himself has said that after Black Biscuit he became ATF’s “golden boy.” By 2006, three years after the investigation ended – after about three years of revisionist fermentation – ATF friendly accounts of Dobyns’ adventures had begun to percolate into American mass media.

The Legend Of Agent Jay

Nobody wants to tell me who invented the legend of Agent Jay Dobyns. Either Dobyns pushed himself into the national spotlight or the ATF pulled him. Work on the first two books about his adventures actually started in 2004.

The first, substantial, written account of Black Biscuit took up about 220 pages of a book titled Angels of Death by Sher and William Marsden. The book was published in 2006. Sher has cordial relations with the ATF and he appears to have had access to official ATF documents that have never been made public. Numerous ATF Agents including Dobyns, Kozlowski and Los Angeles Special Agent John Ciccone are quoted extensively in Angels of Death. The book is unsourced and not footnoted but it does acknowledge: “Tom Mangan of the ATF.” In the same way that I know that Droban’s quote was too good to be true I also know that Sher and Marsden’s book could not have been written and published without the enthusiastic cooperation of the ATF.

The second written account was Droban’s. She is a former Maricopa County Deputy Attorney who has parlayed her book into a part time career as a biker authority. She describes herself as “the female Woodward and Bernstein.” Her publicity photo shows her wearing jeans and a black, leather jacket. And, her expose of the Pagans Motorcycle Club, titled Age of Fire, will be published this year by St. Martin’s Press.

The Legend Continues

Droban has publically stated that she was asked by “a mutual friend” in 2004 if she “would be interested in writing about the ATF sting against the Hells Angels, code named, Operation Black Biscuit. I was familiar with the case,” she says, “since it had received some national coverage on America’s Most Wanted, and I knew several of the participants involved in the investigation.”

But she refuses to tell me who the mutual friend was, and who his friends were, and who she knew inside the investigation. I am just some guy. I go by a funny nickname. Worst of all I am rude. I demand to know how much of her account “was fed to you by the ATF?”

She replies that her “material came from the horses’ mouths and not the horses’ asses if you get my drift? I researched the old fashioned way, getting in the trenches, interviewing the players, reviewing highly sensitive and confidential material. I can’t reveal how I got my hands on that.”

Which leaves me no choice but to infer that she also had the enthusiastic cooperation of the ATF. She quotes numerous ATF sources, describes various locations and brags that she had private access to “highly sensitive and confidential,” official ATF documents. So I guess her answer to my question is yes: Her account was fed to her by the ATF. Which means that the ATF was pushing Dobyns into the spotlight. Which like everything about Jay Dobyns might be true or it might be false.

Plot Point One

The business end of the horse, you pick the end, claims the Bureau did not help Droban at all. “Running with the Devil,” Jay Dobyns tells me, “was written by someone with no access to the biker world and relied exclusively on her interpretation of public documents. I think she did okay. Her book was viewed as a success but she got a lot of the story wrong.”

So I go back to trying to decide if Dobyns was pushed or pulled into celebrity.

I decide to call both heads and tails. By November 2006, around the time his supervisor was threatening to transfer him to “a postage stamp in the middle of nowhere,” both Dobyns and the ATF had invested so much effort into making him look like a war hero that there was no turning back. “Jay Dobyns is a good guy” was practically a hit song.

“We reminded ourselves every day when we went out that we’re the good guys, they’re the bad guys,” Dobyns told Sher. “We’re pretending, they’re believing.” That pronouncement stumps me for about a full day. Dobyns seems to like to say things like that. I think Dobyns wants us all to believe that he has mastered the miracle of the immaculate perception. And, when we get confused if we just listen to him we will all come out of it okay.

Suits And Settlements

After the threat reported by Agent Hebert, after the threatened transfer to Guam, Dobyns sued the ATF. He complained that the Bureau had botched his first transfer to Santa Maria; that the ATF had not taken the threats against him as seriously as it should have; that he and his family had been endangered by a giant, stupid bureaucracy; and that somebody with deep pockets owed him big time for what he had had to endure.

Eventually the ATF gave in and, if I have read the settlement correctly, the Bureau agreed to give Dobyns and his lawyer $373,000 if he would just shut up. I might have missed something but I think the deal was: “Here is a third of a million dollars now shut up.” First the ATF wanted Dobyns to be famous. Then they paid him $373.000 of public money to stop being famous. That stumps me, too.

The settlement was agreed upon in September 2007 but it did not settle anything. The ATF was late on its payments and subjected Dobyns to “internal affairs investigations … on over eleven different occasions.” Dobyns did not get along with his supervisors in Los Angeles, and eventually he moved back to Tucson where, he said, his enemies were.


In August 2008 somebody set fire to Dobyns’ house. The fire apparently caused about $30,000 damage although in some accounts it caused ten times that amount. Dobyns asserts that his insurance company, State Farm, determined the destruction to his home and contents “to be a near total loss.”

Someone had tossed a small amount of flammable liquid on Dobyns back porch and set a match. Dobyns was “verifiably out of town” at the time. His cell phone was turned on so its location was traceable and the phone proved that at the time of the fire Dobyns was actually travelling away from Tucson. At least his phone was taking a trip. But, his wife and children were home and they were forced out into the night dressed only for bed.

A “senior ATF Phoenix supervisor” named Dobyns as a suspect in the arson. Dobyns has called that accusation a “malicious reprisal.”

The more of these documented accusations and counteraccusations I read through the more lost I become.

Not The Angels

Many of Dobyns defenders have assumed that the fire was set by members or friends of the Hells Angels Motorcycle Club. For example, last July a flamboyantly gay dust bunny named Shepard Smith greeted Dobyns to his Fox News show with:

“Jay Dobyns joins us now live and we’re not going to tell you where he is. Jay, thanks for being with us. The Hells Angels burned down your house with your family inside. Fortunately they, uh, escaped. They put a contract on your head.”

Dobyns did not bother to correct Smith. Maybe he was just paralyzed with fear that at any moment Shepard Smith might also actually burst into flames, but when I watch the interview I get the impression that Dobyns really wants the world to think the Angels did it. Maybe that is just me.

When I asked him about the putative connection between the fire and the motorcycle club Dobyns answered as if that connection was all my idea. “I have never said to anyone publicly or privately that the Hells Angels burned my house down,” Dobyns told me. “Find where I have. I have said that ATF let someone get away with it and in the process also get away with attempting to murder my family. Believe it or not but my beef is not with the Hells Angels. They are in my rear view mirror. My beef is with ATF.”

I stand corrected.

In September 2009, less than a month after the fire, Dobyns sued the ATF again for slightly more than $4 million. He wanted $1.6 million to compensate him for his “suffering;” $600 thousand to compensate his wife and children for their “suffering;” $200 thousand for his lawyer; and he also asked for ten years pay at the rate of $185,000 per year.

The ATF seemed to think that Dobyns had gone crazy. Really, really crazy. “Crazy for feeling so lonely…crazy for feeling so blue…crazy for trying and crazy for crying.”

Crazy Or Sane

Public documents assert that an ATF supervisor “stated in front of multiple witnesses on multiple occasions” that “Dobyns is mentally unfit for duty,” and “Dobyns is broken.” The supervisor has been quoted as saying, “it is my duty to see that Dobyns is removed from…this agency.” Allegedly, an ATF Internal Affairs Investigator classified Dobyns as “certifiable,” by which he meant crazy.

The ATF retained a psychiatrist named Daniel Blumberg who allegedly betrayed his conclusions about Dobyns’ mental health to ATF officials after “privileged and confidential sessions with Dobyns.” According to Dobyns, the psychiatrist later apologized and explained that he had been “coerced and extorted” into disclosing the “privileged information” out of “fear that he would lose his ATF-funded retainer contract.”

Dobyns accused the ATF of attempting to publish, release and expose his “medical records to defame, intimidate and coerce” him. And, according to Dobyns, these attempts to discredit him as crazy began in the autumn of 2006, the season when all the world was being told he was a hero.

Dobyns has formally accused the “senior Los Angeles ATF supervisor,” whose name is John Torres, of trying to “defame Dobyns to his peers and other law enforcement agencies outside of ATF. The Los Angeles supervisor enlisted the support of ATF supervisors in Chicago and Seattle to obstruct justice by defaming Dobyns as a government witness. The Los Angeles supervisor also attempted to recruit ATF attorneys into his defamation scheme.”

Apparently, I am the only person left on the planet who has not seen Dobyns’ psychological evaluation so I ask Dobyns for his side of it.

“No shrink ever judged me crazy,” he says. “ATF’s psyche Doctor did a post case analysis of me. His conclusions were that I was fine. Those conclusions remained private and protected. Some ATF bosses who wanted to burn me down thought there might be a smoking gun there. They extorted my medical records from the Doctor hoping to establish their argument. But, I got the last laugh because when they got them, the Doctor’s opinion was that I was healthy.”

Really, Really, Really Completely Sane

All of this argument over Dobyns’ sanity was going on as he was being portrayed as the “good guy” who had infiltrated and justifiably betrayed the “bad guys,” the Hells Angels. I impulsively jump to the conclusion that Dobyns is being scapegoated by the ATF for the failed prosecution of the case he investigated.

That is what I do. I ask rude questions and I jump to unfounded conclusions. I ask Dobyns, “Are you mentally and emotionally fit?”

Dobyns replies, “Maybe. Going through what I have and am going through changes a person. In my case probably for the worse. You lose faith in people in general. You question whether or not people you trusted really understand loyalty. I am mentally strong. I think that fits better. My will is undefeatable and resilient. Mentally…emotionally fit? Yes, but with lots of battle damage.”

That response is my second favorite Jay Dobyns’ quote of all time. I put that one on a post-it note on the upper right hand corner of my computer screen. I ask Jay Dobyns if he is sane and he tells me, “Maybe.”

I think that is the most honest thing Dobyns has said in years. I also think it is interesting that Dobyns greatest fear seems to be that he will be betrayed.

Donnie Brasco

For the last twelve or thirteen months I have been trying to get a handle on the psychology of undercover cops in general and the ATF agents who infiltrate motorcycle clubs in particular. And, the conclusion I have jumped to about that is that most of these guys are like whores who start cumming with their customers. When that happens they have to get out. Motorcycle clubs are very overpowering social constructions and it is hard to be an undercover in a club.

The model has always been Donnie Brasco – this sort of tortured guy who has to live in two worlds and then betray one of them. And then he is betrayed in turn by the world he chooses. “Donnie Brasco” is itself a fiction -a story, something very different from everyday life- but sometimes the only way people can make sense of their lives is by telling a story; by making up a lie that is truer than true.

In the aftermath of motorcycle club investigations this Donnie Brasco story gets retold over and over: In the Warlocks case, in Operation Ivan, in Black Biscuit and I can see it already in Operation Black Rain. Stephen Martin and Billy Queen both seem to have seen themselves as Donnie Brasco. I think Jay Dobyns became the flavor of Donnie Brasco that emphasizes the hero’s own betrayal.

I think with under cover cops the line between fiction and reality becomes very confused. I also think that most of the story telling that goes on after these investigations, especially the story telling that went on after Black Biscuit, is a way of redrawing lines that the investigation itself erased: The lines between good and bad and right and wrong and true and false and legal and illegal and especially the lines between loyalty and betrayal.

Dobyns told Sher that he had to remind himself everyday who was good and who was bad, who was pretending and who was not. He had to tell himself to know.

At the conclusion of Black Biscuit Dobyns killed a Mongol for his new club brothers. It was a make believe killing and the victim was a make believe Mongol but also Dobyns was a make believe Hells Angel. The staged murder was entirely Dobyns own invention. Nobody in the ATF told him to do it. And I think that was almost certainly the moment Dobyns started cumming with his customers. You do not exactly have to be Sigmund Freud to understand the real power of symbolic acts.

The Story With A Thousand Titles

A very important authority named Joseph Campbell is most importantly remembered for his description of a story he called the monomyth: “A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder,” Campbell wrote. “Fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is won.”

“From 2001 to 2003 Dobyns led an undercover ATF investigation that targeted the Hells Angels,” an authorized version of the Jay Dobyns’ story asserts. “The investigation was entitled Operation Black Biscuit. Dobyns’ work led to an unprecedented, first-ever police infiltration of the Hells Angels in the Hells Angels’ (then) fifty-five year history. Numerous search and arrest warrants supplemented the federal indictment of sixteen or more Hells Angels members for, inter alia, violation of the RICO laws. In order to best accomplish this mission, Dobyns’ undercover role forced him to become immersed in the outlaw biker culture and lifestyle.”

The problem with Dobyns’ story is that it is really two stories trying to be one. The trouble with Joseph Campbell’s monomyth is that it tries to weld two myths into one.

The story that Jay Dobyns really has to tell is the one about how his “undercover role forced him to become immersed in the outlaw biker culture and lifestyle.” It could be a good story. Nine years after the invention of the motorcycle, Stephen Crane wrote a few lines that I think describes how under cover cops get seduced by the outlaw world.

I stood upon a high place,
And saw, below, many devils
Running, leaping,
and carousing in sin.
One looked up, grinning,
And said, “Comrade! Brother!”

But Dobyns has never told that story and he probably never will because the story the ATF wants told is the one about how fabulous forces were encountered and a decisive victory was won.

Whether Kerrie Droban knows anything or not, at least she gets it. She knows why publishers buy books. Droban frankly acknowledges that what she is selling is “a voyeuristic view of life inside the Hells Angels.”

No Angel

Four months after his house was torched, three months after he sued the ATF again, Dobyns published his own account of his “harrowing undercover journey to the inner circle of the Hells Angels.”

No Angel, published by Crown in 2009, was actually sold the same year Droban’s book was published. Dobyns’ book, co-written by a Nils Johnson-Shelton, was originally titled Almost Angels: The True Story of the First Cop to Infiltrate the Hells Angels-the World’s Most Infamous and Impenetrable Motorcycle Gang. But the title was changed partly because Almost Angels was also the title of a 1962 Disney documentary about the Vienna Boy’s Choir and mostly because anybody who might buy the book would already know who the Hells Angels are.

What Dobyns had to sell was a guided tour of the outlaw world. The story the ATF wanted was about a “decisive victory.” Dobyns and Johnson-Shelton obviously did their best to write the ATF the valentine it demanded and the result is a really shallow and mendacious book. A year ago, after the book came out, I called Dobyns the “Shameless Jackass of the Year.”

That is how I roll. I ask a few rude questions, jump to a few facile conclusions, call Dobyns a shameless jackass and then I am perfectly satisfied to pat myself on the back. Only, Dobyns refuses to let me off that easy.

“I don’t disagree with your assessments of me, my work or my book,” he writes me. “There are elements of the story not told, lots of them. There are lawyers involved and I was not permitted to discuss anything that I knew to be true but could not prove in a courtroom.”

“When you gain someone’s trust and loyalty all with the pre-determined conclusion to betray it,” Dobyns tells me another time, “you are going to make enemies and create vendettas. In the case of the outlaw world those hatreds are heightened because it is a world that relies on trust and loyalty. I am stupid. I did make mistakes, lots of them. I don’t apologize for them to anyone but my family but of course there are lots of things I would do differently if I did it again. But, bottom line, is that I would do it again. You don’t have to understand.”

Dobyns stubbornly refuses to tell the story I think he should have told. He is determined to stick to the story he thinks the ATF wants him to tell. He was a “good guy.” He was not a “bad guy.” I think those are the only two lines he has left on his map. I don’t think he wrote his book because he wants to get rich or because he wants to become a successful author but because he wants everybody who reads it to agree with him about who he is. I don’t think he is suing the ATF for money. He is suing the ATF to make the Bureau agree with him.

I think eight years after the brawl at Harrah’s the lines all have to be where Jay Dobyns says they are because if they are not then he is lost.

The Postscript

Three weeks ago, on January 31st, the ATF sued Dobyns for an “accounting, restitution, and disgorgement of all money received, or to be received, by Mr. Dobyns” from his book No Angel and from “an agreement with 20th Century Fox regarding the sale of rights to the book for purposes of making a motion picture.”

“After the conclusion of Operation Black Biscuit,” the lawsuit self-righteously complains, “Mr. Dobyns sold the story of his official duties for his own private gain.”

I cannot read this 35 page document without both laughing out loud and grunting in amazement. Although, in the last year, I have gotten very sick of writing about Dobyns I feel obliged to report this strange twist. I ask him to comment on the countersuit and he refuses, petulantly. He tells me he can’t trust me and that is absolutely, purely Jay Dobyns.

We have a little exchange. I insult him and I insult his book. He writes back to tell me how much he is looking forward to reading a book I am writing about the Mongols case. And, that is also absolutely, purely Jay Dobyns.

I really don’t quite know what to make of this guy. Sometimes we are Wiley Coyote and Ralph the Watch Dog. Other times we are Wiley Coyote and Ralph the Watch Dog on our lunch break. We exchange a few words about the book business.

“I would not be discouraged to write your book by some 5th Avenue pogue whose biggest risk in life has been to decide how much of his 401k to take out to buy his yacht,” Dobyns encourages me. It is an entirely unsolicited kindness. It is the last word I have from him before I sit down to write this.

Every once in a while I have to look up at the top left corner of my computer lest I too become lost. “I know I can get over on people,” Dobyns brags.

Everybody, apparently, except the ATF.

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88 Responses to “The Agent Who Became Lost”

  1. Goldsboro Williams Says:


    Ok, on checking, I stand corrected! It kind of saddens me though to think that any of that could be official policy. What a world we live in.



  2. ReaderGuy Says:

    I bought this jackass Dobyns book. I am fairly pissed at myself for giving this dumbass any of my money. As far as Dobyns goes, and I think that this site has reported it in detail…the investigations he pursued, in particular, Black Biscuit, resulted in really very small charges, and many of the charges prosecutors filed were plead down, dropped or dismissed. As he himself admits the results were certainly not on par with anything he set out to accomplish as he “lost himself to the underground world of the Hells Angels.” Some of the earlier investigations he took part in were almost total failures; and earned some more black marks on the ATF’s already dubious record of “investigating” motorcycle clubs. Well the proof is in the pudding for J. Dobyns. We can look at the prosectuions, convictions and results of the investigations he took part in vs the scope and resources that went into them. They were failures. I think Dobyns will have more luck as a “consultant” to shows like Sons of Anarchy, Law and Order or some other bullshit (not to mention his burgeoning career as a Hollywood writer) than he did as a ATF agent. Its too bad that he had too burn so many bridges, tell so many lies, and alienate many of the groups and people who cared about him at one time or another.

  3. Damon Says:

    Rebel & SVD

    “Also, obviously you have been doing your outside reading! ”

    I’ve scoured the back issues, but can’t find that suggested list of books about the old frontier. It was during a discussion comparing the men of the frontier with outlaw bikers, as I recall. Can either of you refresh my memory? I’m seriously in the market for a new genre.

    Last trip to the bookshop, the best I could come up with was Elmore Leonard’s ‘The Bounty Hunters’. There’s nothing new under the sun, huh? Oh, and, I…picked up a copy of No Angel. Yeah, I know. I feel….dirty. But after all this fuss, how can I not read it for myself?


  4. bob Says:

    if a riot at a motorcycle race were “communist-inspired”,it would be a hammer and sickle world ,man.Seriously,they also claimed there were Hells Angels at that event,and this was before there were any East Coast charters.

  5. 10Guage Says:


    I don’t doubt for a second the selfish reasons you give for why these professional rats get into law enforcement. However, their motivations are of no interest to me.

    There is absolutely a top down mandate to eradicate “Biker Gangs”. The government is not even bashful about it. Quite the contrary they are very vocal about the importance of, and need for these programs.

    The freedom of information act has allowed for the release and subsequent posting of many of these early federal reports. The context of these reports, clearly demonstrate, the governments early position that the clubs themselves are criminal organizations and the need for the secret service and FBI to keep tabs on these clubs. In one of these reports a local mayor claims that some weekend rioting among racing enthusiasts was communist inspired. I don’t think I have to explain the attention this garnered in 1965. Suffice to say the President, Vice President, Whitehouse staff, and Attorney General were all personally notified.

    In addition there have been U.S. Senate hearings such as “Organized Crime in America,” which was held before the Committee on the Judiciary, U.S. Senate, 98th Congress, and January-March 1983. A subsequent 554-page congressional report was compiled comparing similarities and relationships between organized crime and motorcycle gangs.

    In June 1985–An FBI report officially designates outlaw motorcycle gangs as priority No. 2, right behind La Cosa Nostra.

    This is a mandate which continues to this day. The following is taken directly off of the home page for the Los Angeles field office of the FBI: “The mission of the FBI gang program is to identify, target, disrupt and dismantle criminal enterprises in the form of violent street and motorcycle gangs. The Los Angeles Field Office, in conjunction with other federal, state and local law enforcement agencies, investigates major domestic violent street gangs through proactive, multi-agency, coordinated efforts.”

  6. Square Verbose Doc Says:

    “methamphetamine psychosis… Not that that excuses anything but I think it might turn down the contrast between good and evil just a little bit.”

    Not nearly as much as when they pay one alleged murderer to catch the other two, jail one for life, let the other get away, reward the first guy with a get out of jail free card and then talk about decisive victories for justice.

    You see, annoying as it can be, it’s when I don’t get past the murder parts that I really see most clearly the hypocrisy involved in the prosecution of these cases.

    Always nice to be able to post here.


  7. Rebel Says:

    Dear not-a-hippie,

    When I do right nobody remembers. When I do wrong nobody forgets.


  8. Rebel Says:

    Dear SVD,

    No I had not seen that before. So I am Jay Dobyns’ number one enemy? High praise indeed! I am truly humbled by that. I am honored to have been selected out of thousands of other candidates.

    Also, obviously you have been doing your outside reading!

    Yeah, Cynthia Garcia’s murder. I wasn’t in the Mesa Clubhouse that night so I have no idea what happened. I agree with you. Murdering women is almost always morally reprehensible. Garcia is gone now and I will not besmirch her memory. But it has always sounded like a tweaking related murder to me. It sounds like one of those ghastly, horrifying, almost science fiction acts of evil that occur as a result of –in connection to, as a symptom of– methamphetamine psychosis. Not that that excuses anything but I think it might turn down the contrast between good and evil just a little bit.

    Yeah, Kramer. You know that name, ne’cest pas? Kramer. Debriefed by another name you know, John Ciccone. Little world isn’t it? Kramer. Kramer was the door into the investigation as I understand it.

    And, threat number four against Dobyns? That guy Special Agent Hebert described as “full of crap?” I don’t know for sure. I cannot prove it. But if I had to pick one name out of the air the name I would choose would be Kramer.

    Little world. Mostly gray. Not nearly as black and white as it should be. John LeCarre should have written about bikers instead of cold war spies. I asked Dobyns about that, by the way. I asked him if he ever read The Spy Who Came In From The Cold. He didn’t tell me. I know he strongly identifies with the movie Training Day. I am not positive which character. I think Alonzo.

    Always nice to hear from you by the way.

    your pal,

  9. Rebel Says:

    Dear Rashomon,

    I believe I may be guilty of sloth.

    your pal,

  10. Hermis Says:

    Dobyns should have been what was set on fire, not the house.

    And ANY COP/ATF that falsifies/fabricates or otherwise sets about to “Entrap” someone into committing a crime: Should ALL burn alive at the stake on national tv, BEFORE going to Hell!

    The Rat bastard mutha fukkas!

  11. Rashomon Says:

    I was looking at something completely unrelated to this and I ran across a list of the seven deadly sins – they sort of sum up UC’s …

    1)Pride is excessive belief in one’s own abilities, that interferes with the individual’s recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity.

    2)Envy is the desire for others’ traits, status, abilities, or situation.

    3)Gluttony is an inordinate desire to consume more than that which one requires.

    4)Lust is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body.

    5)Anger is manifested in the individual who spurns love and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath.

    6)Greed is the desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. It is also called Avarice or Covetousness.

    7)Sloth is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work.

  12. Big Bagel Says:



  13. Square Verbose Doc Says:

    As an addendum to what I wrote, I am of course aware that in the end, he did NOT help them rack up a high score, because in fact, his conduct (along with that of others) nearly undermined the case. But the ATF didn’t know that would be the case when they promised him he could get away with murder in exchange for his services.

  14. GUSTO Says:

    Big Bagel,
    did you just compare 1%er clubs to 911 hijackers???firts of all most of these guys are vets, it even got its origins from WW2. Some are clean, sober and even got clean records. most get wraped up on a case because they just belong to a club.

  15. Square Verbose Doc Says:

    Dear Rebel:

    Jay Dobyns has a sort of tribute to you here:
    I’m guessing you’ve already seen it, but if not, it’s worth a look.

    This was a fascinating piece, but as usual, even though we are Killer Apes and all, I got stuck at the murder part. It did not engender sympathy to that particular chapter of that particular club, and even got in the way of my sense of being enraged at what a lousy friend Jay Dobyns turned out to be for so many people. What can I say; I think I’m always going to get stuck at the murder parts. I’m a doctor after all, and we’re supposed to be this way–mostly against people dying for no good reason. You don’t want a doctor who takes pain or death too lightly, most of the time, just as as you don’t want an accountant who says “it’s only money” or a lawyer who says “it’s just time” and maybe just as you don’t want overly sensitive outlaw bikers.

    Then, as I read further I learned that one of the key ATF informants in Black Biscuit allegedly participated in the murder and turned in his alleged confederates; he got off pretty much with probation. I know they sometimes lighten the sentence of one guy for testifying against the others, but this guy confessed to a brutal murder and got absolutely NO time in jail at all for something that carries life without parole. As I read this, I had a hard time believing that this was not as much for helping the ATF rack up a high score of arrests and convictions in a RICO case as for helping to solve a murder.

    At that point I realized one thing. The ATF definitely did not get stuck on the murder part.


  16. not-a-hippie Says:

    “Rashomon Says:
    February 22nd, 2010 at 12:47 pm
    Has there ever been a case of a biker infiltrating the cops and getting caught? Never mind. Stupid question….”

    Actually, yes. That “thin blue line” not only separates the bad guys from the citizens (note I didn’t say good guys), but it represents how close cops are to flipping over to the Dark Side. It is a thin, blue line.

    I know 1%ers who were cops, military officers, plumbers, you name it. I once met a CPA that rode to work in his patch with his side bags packed with accounting stuff. I know another who is making a killing at a Wall Street firm. Not to forget the “squeaky clean” Iron Pigs…..

    What am I saying? Fuck if I know. I do know that for every law I’ve broken, I’ve done a dozen good deeds. Fuck the feds and always Question Authority.

  17. RVN69 Says:

    Goldsboro Williams,
    I have to agree with your sentiment that I copied below.

    As I have said before, the UC’s get to live the life, all while earning a steady paycheck. They get to drink beer, ride bikes, and chase girls. In order to justify this, they either have to convince themselves that their biker ‘buddies’ are the prime example of consummate evil, or they have to just be a cock sucker to begin with. I really believe that most of them are just cock suckers, who would fuck another cop over as quickly as they would any biker. To them, it is all about them. Nothing and no one else matters. Period

    Before “Blackhawk” became a household name there were companies that did work that the US Govt. could not or would not do. I was able to parlay the training I received in the military and my experiences in Vietnam into a job here in the world providing training for industrial security forces in South and Central America, executive protection detail training, and occasionally training of police here in the good ole USA. My observations are of State, County and Local cops, I was never involved in training any Federal agents although it is hard to believe they are much different.
    My observations of UnderCover cops pretty much are the same as yours, they do what they do because they still have all the benefits of being a cop, ie: not being arrested for things you and I would by benefit of Master Badge, but they can live the life without the hassel of being readily identified as cops. They dress as they please, drive usually nice cars or bikes provided with our tax money, and drink and get high at government expense. They also soon develop a strong feeling that they are above the law, that anything they do to catch the bad guy is OK because it serves the greater good. Most of them do as little as possible while still maintaining their job as a UC, they all seem to have the same traits concerning other people’s property. Every UC I came into contact with seemed to think stealing property from people who’s houses they searched was not only acceptable, but expected. They took jewelry, knives, guns, but most of all they all would tear a house apart looking for personal pictures, you know the kind a husband and wife or boyfriend, girl friend have of each other or together! These were passed around and shown to everyone like trophys. I could go on about the things they do, but I think you get the idea. In my book they have created and nurtured a culture of corruption that survives by lying, stealing and planting evidence. I believe most UC’s are sociopaths, incapable of caring about anyone but themselves and can justify to themselves any action that will allow them to stay in their capacity. In short a bunch of lying, stealing fucks who commit crimes and hang people out to dry ruining their lives in order to have stories to tell their buddies and trophys to show off at the FOP lodge. Why do you think they always hang on to colors, to them it is the equivelent of a Boone and Crockett buck.
    Si Vis Pacem, Parabellum

  18. dago peckerwood Says:

    My club was betrayed by a piece of shit drug addict named Falon Northrup.He is a former NLR.This worthless piece of fuck got busted for bullshit drug charges and decided to rat on everyone he could to get released.He introduced his “friend”, an ATF agent, to club members most of which wanted nothing to do with him.But after finding a brother down on his luck, L.A. Chris(obviously not his real name) finally convinced said brother to participate in a couple small deals.After bestowing several subtantial gifts to my brother like military grade night vision goggles,and cases of cigarettes,he wanted to start trading guns for drugs.After taking our advice and not doing anything else with this outsider,(some of us had a feeling he was L.E.)brother got busted for a pound of weed.While barely a crime in California,they desperately needed a conviction so made a federal case out of it.After raiding our clubhouse and 10 residences they only managed to get minor convictions.100 cops from 7 agencies,swat teams,helicopters,and the swat tank on the raid.9 mos. U.C. investigation, hundreds of thousands of $ spent all on the word of a piece of shit druggie. I guess my point is BE CAREFUL!

  19. Jabba Says:

    A good friend of mine in the British Army was under pressure from the MP’s to give them info’ on three or four guys in his unit. All as a result of a long-running UC investigation.

    He blew his brains out with a stolen 9mm. Left a 25-year old wife, a little girl aged three and a boy of one. The UC’s moved on to somebody else and turned him instead. Busted “a ring” of three people and hauled in the grand total of about one kilo of Mary Jane and some funny mushrooms.

    My mate served in Northern Ireland and the Falklands – with distinction, he had the respect of his unit and the love of an extended family.

    I love UC’s… especially with mustard and some fucking salt.

    >> I come at this from a law enforcement background

    Then fuck off.


    Respect is that which has to be given or earned in order to be received.

  20. Rebel Says:

    Dear Jabba,

    Like I said, as far as I can tell he is doing well at it. I forget what he calls it. It is something like “street warrior strategies for the boardroom” or something like that.

    We live in an age of miracles and wonders, partner.


  21. Goldsboro Williams Says:


    One other thing: when it is not a UC, but an informant, it is even more insidious. The informant is often caught doing something small, but something that he or she could be charged with a felony for. The UC will approach the prosecutor about a ‘deal,’ which will then allow the informant to “work off” their charges. In order to do this, the informant will have to provide evidence on a certain number of crimes or against a certain number of people. In that case, even though the government started the situation and offered this atrocious alternative to incarceration, it is again an individual choice to commit evil. Rather than just go do his six months on a minor possession charge (or whatever it is they busted him on), that person is willing to screw over others just to stay out of jail for a short while. The fact that it would profit the informant to lie seems to be lost on some.

    Why courts allow testimony from such people is beyond me.



  22. Goldsboro Williams Says:

    10 Guage,

    I’m gonna disagree with you, but not as far as the results go – just the reason why this happens.

    I truly believe that it is not a government mandate, it is simply a result of the type of government that we have.

    Political appointees and bureaucrats always live for publicity and funding. They are always up for an investigation that will make the news and that will continue to allow them to earn accolades from an admiring press corps and citizen groups.

    They have lost sight of the fact that they are abusing the public trust by such operations, because so many people are willing to tell them that they are doing good. Unfortunately, bikers and bike clubs don’t have a powerful lobby, nor will the media give them sympathetic air time.

    As I have said before, the UC’s get to live the life, all while earning a steady paycheck. They get to drink beer, ride bikes, and chase girls. In order to justify this, they either have to convince themselves that their biker ‘buddies’ are the prime example of consummate evil, or they have to just be a cock sucker to begin with. I really believe that most of them are just cock suckers, who would fuck another cop over as quickly as they would any biker. To them, it is all about them. Nothing and no one else matters. Period.

    I recently had a buddy come home from Iraq, and he stayed at my house for a couple of days. In order to get him to arrive at his surprise party, I told him that I had to go confront a guy about a debt, and asked him to back me up. He did not hesitate. That’s what buddies should do.

    However, in the UC world, that same trait that makes my war hero buddy a good man, would make anyone else a criminal. Back up your buddy in a make believe scenario, and suddenly you are a master criminal. Oh – and the greater the criminal threat you are, the greater the hero the UC is… it is a one-sided symbiotic relationship.

    To sum up, it is a result of individual evil – The prosecutor or police chief being willing to sacrifice the lives of the citizens for funding and fame, and the UC’s who are willing to destroy countless lives just to have a good time.

    I remember a decade or so ago there was a television special about all the people that the IRS put in prison or destroyed financially. It actually showed what the people were arrested for and explained how many of them were basically set up. It led to congressional hearings (more face time for politicians) and the elimination of many of those type of investigations. Maybe the ATF needs their own show.


  23. 10Guage Says:

    Hey Sticky donut..

    I might even agree with you if it was that simple…Naw

    The truth is UC work isn’t about putting a cop in a club who pretends to be one of the guys and catches the brothers committing crimes. FAR FROM IT! These guys are fabricating crimes. One of their favorite things to do is to find someone who is completely broke and arrange for them to make an absurd amount of money for running a quick errand f or coming along on a drug deal. Same thing with weapon offenses. There have been far fetched stories made up and situations created where these rats win over someone’s trust and then create a situation that plays on their loyalty and love. In one well documented case they created fake bad guys who were going to kill this fake brother if he didn’t get a certain type of illegal gun. The entrapped brother even tried to rectify it “legally” with money and was told that it wouldn’t help because he had to have the guns. The list goes on and on. The point is these fuckers create illegal activity rather than document it. Even worse is they are now creating the crime just to get brothers to plead to Rico.

    In the process lies are told, drugs are used, bought and sold, crimes and assaults are committed, confidential privileged police information about rival clubs and their members is leaked about other clubs to prove loyalties and stir the pot, adultery is committed. Not to mention the innocent wives, children, and family members who get caught in the mix.

    We live at the mercy of the wealthiest and powerful government in the world with unlimited resources full of agents who get paid to be con artists. They get paid to entrap people and wreck lives. Certain members of our government have decided that some of its citizens are undesirable and need to be irradiated and they will do whatever is necessary to make that happen and if some rules need to be broken and some rights need to be trampled so be it. If they want you for something… they will get you. So take your old fashioned good guy bad guy speech and shove it up your ass.

  24. Jabba Says:

    A fucking life coach????!!!!

    I was just so fucking wrong when I said it couldn’t get much more “aggravatingly funny” wasn’t I?

    Life is SOOO much weirder than fiction.

    I can’t get over this.

    A fucking life coach for fuck’s sake??!!!

    Hey everybody!! This is how to fuck-up your life and a shit-load of others into the bargain, the Dobyns Way – we like to call it “The F-Plan”.

    That’s enough, can’t take any more, more snow, more Jack…

    Canadian Snow-Hole for the Mentally Broken

  25. Jabba Says:

    What ruffrider said.


    Thank Christ I had my fat ass on the couch and a glass of Jack nearby.

    Rebel… fuck.

    Just… FUCK!!

    A motivational speaker?!!??


    My brain just broke.


    I’m gonna have to go off, shovel more snow, then get very drunk.


  26. YYZ Skinhead Says:

    Goldsboro Williams,

    Much obliged, sir. ;-) I hope American bikers start using the phrase “dob in” to mean “be a cheese eating rat” as well. It fits too perfectly!

    YYZ Skinhead

  27. Snow Says:

    I’ve lived most of my 51 years in the New Orleans area, a couple of things; first if a cop tells you something, no matter what agency their with, it’s a lie, if their lips are moving it’s a lie, the more they try to convince you otherwise the bigger the lie…the corruption in the blue gang here is unbelievable, they commit almost as much crime as the criminals….I don’t understand how anyone so turncoat can live with themselves, rat out your friends, rat out your enemies, hell he’d probaly rat out his mother if it made him more famous….

  28. Big Bagel Says:

    I come at this from a law enforcement background and I guess I’m gonna get beaten up for this but here’s my take:
    If you’re a member of a crew/gang/organization etc. and you flip on your boys…..your a rat. If you flip for money, you suddenly developed a conscience, your looking at time, your wife’s looking at time…….your still a rat.
    If an undercover penetrates your organization blame yourself not the undercover. If you don’t vet new people properly that’s your problem. He’s doing his job and you didn’t do yours.

    I’m in NY and have had zero contact with 1%ers so I have no personal issues here. I’m just talking about some kind of ethical behavior in general not this specific case. If a deep undercover befriended and infiltrated the 9/11 hijackers and stopped the attack would that have been dirty pool? Are there some moral ambiguities in deep u/c work? Yes but that’s not an unusual thing in this world.

  29. ruffrider Says:

    A motivational speaker?? Youv’e gotta be kidding!

  30. Goldsboro Williams Says:

    YYZ Skinhead,

    That dollop of information is the type of jewel that keeps me reading the comment sections. Outstanding.


  31. YYZ Skinhead Says:

    In an article about Aussie bikers (bikies) on this site–I forget which one–some Australian official has declared a specific day “Dob In a Bikie Day” for non-bikies.

    “Dob in” means “rat out”, and in a bizarre example of linguistic convergent evolution, “dob in” sounds a whole lot like the name of a guy in Arizona who ratted out a bunch of bikers after they befriended and trusted him.

    YYZ Skinhead

  32. Rebel Says:

    Dear Jabba,

    Please sit down before you read any further.

    No. Go ahead. I’ll wait. I don’t want you to fall down and get hurt.

    Dobyns has a part time career going as a life coach and motivational speaker. As far as I know that is going well for him.

    your pal,

  33. not-a-hippie Says:

    Great read, Rebel. I can relate to how twisted Dobyns is because I’ve got to live in the everyday world to a major extent and its no fun. Believe you me, I’d be happier “living off the grid” and living a real code of honor and justice.

    I’ve been a victim of snitches and undercovers and they’re pretty darn easy to see through. Snitches are harder because they’ll get what they need (or make it up) and run.

    Undercovers always seem to try too hard. All that booze and dope must be fogging up the H.A.s’ brains. Dry out, brothers…lol.

  34. GUSTO Says:

    yeah Oilslick, koz in gonna use his royalty money on lipo that fat fuck!! they make their livin off of lies, incrimination and betrayal. They write about it then they call themselves heros.. makes me sick

  35. Jabba Says:

    Seems to me, and it’s just opinion, that the guy’s a hopeless fuck-up… he’s fucked-up a government career, he’s fucked-up even being a citizen (no adrenaline rush there is there? Especially when you think everybody in biker boots is creeping up on your sorry ass), he’s probably fucked-up his family life by trying to set fir to his wife and kids (pretty sure my old lady would not take kindly to that), and he aint got much of a working life left to look forward to… private dick? Dobbo the Bounty Hunter?

    Fuckin’ PLEASE!!

    So how’s he going to live the lifestyle of the terminally fucking stupid? Sell a book, get maximum publicity for it and sell it any and every way he can, including movie rights.

    The only way this fucking nightmare could get any more aggravatingly funny, is if they got the blond fuckwit out of Sons of Anasshole to play Dobbo in the movie of the book.

    Cut my fucking throat now.


  36. Oilslick Says:

    You get brought in and accepted by a group that believes in you and trusts you…..probably not until you have proven yourself in some way. You gain their confidence and probably enjoy some commaraderie. You build cases by inventing situations so as to justify your “bringing them down”. You do all this because you know “I can get over on people”.

    Doesn’t all that sound familiar. “Sobbin” Dobyns is gettin done to him what he claims to have done to others. Sad thing is he thinks his deception is justifiable. His pals at the ATF are just doing to him what they are all trained to do. Make shit up and see it through till what they perceive is the finish. He chose to dive into that snake pit, now he’s wondering how they could BETRAY him like this. Gimme a fuckin break.

    Hey Gusto,
    KOZ is busy workin on his book. It’s an autobiography about a superhuman ATF agent that single handedly saves the world from the biker menace lifestyle that is built around trust, honesty, and brotherhood. It’s a peek into the Facist Doctrine that he and his colleauges hope to spread because us citizens are not smart enough to think for ouselves.

    He hopes to make enough money off of it to get plastic surgery done so he can infiltrate other suspect groups from suspect lifestyles to write more books to make more money……and so on…..and so on.


  37. Rebel Says:

    Dear Ruffrider,

    Yeah. I think the tribe has spoken.

    your pal,

  38. Rebel Says:

    Dear Gusto,

    Oh, trust me dude. I am trying to find that out. I would like to talk to him about it. I want to ask him about the parts he is going to leave out.


  39. Rashomon Says:

    Has there ever been a case of a biker infiltrating the cops and getting caught?

    Never mind. Stupid question. This guy really has got himself between a rock and a hard place and I’m guessing the rest of his life will be a misery – so much for job satisfaction and it sounds like the pay ain’t that good either.

  40. 10Guage Says:

    It takes a special kind of psychopathic egomaniac to become this type of a rat. Someone whose ego is so gigantic that the “game” of getting over on people allows him to continue working for an admitted self devouring monster like the ATF. I have heard Dobyns speak about the “good work” he did protecting society and in the same breath talk about how hard it is to “get over” on “these guys” because they stick to themselves and don’t trust, come in contact with, or do business with outsiders. This guy is a walking contradiction. As far as any club wanting him dead…Shit his case went in the shitter and all of the charges were dropped. If anything this fiasco helped the public to understand what crazy endless lengths the ATF will go to set up US citizens. I think he has been spending too much time in lala land. This guy is a fucking adrenaline junkie who couldn’t make it into the NFL and now wants to play dress up bad boy for a living. I’m surprised it took the ATF so long to realize he is a liability. Each case he touches turns into a shit storm. You would have thought that his handlers would have figured it out when the first two cases he was involved in ended in gunfire with him being either run over or shot. I think that speaks volumes about the code of conduct of the ATF. Aren’t these guys supposed to keep track of alchohol, tobacco, and firearms? Whats up with all of the shoot outs?Seems to me his reckless rogue cop behavior was accomodated and rewarded specifically with the intention of making a biker cop superhero right down to the ink. Nice tats their bud..Little bit of an identity crises eh?

  41. Stoney Says:

    Fuck that rat, the ATF, Billy Queen, and all goverment alphabet LEOs. If they cant get you legal they will make up shit to get you with.

  42. GUSTO Says:

    Dobyns probably told pops to burn his house, greedy bastard! i wonder when is koz coming out with a book?

  43. Jarhed Says:

    I dont know dobyns or any “snitches” or any other so-called club infiltrators for that matter.But I do know quite a few bikers that for whatever reason choose to commit unlawful acts.What I do know is that both are a dirty business and when the shit hits the fan I feel no compassion for either of them.
    I remember playing “cops and robbers” as A kid,and some grown men still get a kick out playing the game as adults,only with dire and severe repercussions.Some guys cant get enough of that “rush” of excitement that they can each provide.The outlaw biker world has a vicious cycle that more than a few good men have gotten caught up in.Wether its with drugs,crime,death,or running into fukked up cops like dobyns or ciccione.I know for a fact that neither one of these groups plays fair.
    Are some cops corrupt? hell yes.Do some 1%ers commit crimes , absolutely.Are we suppose to coddle either one of em,,nah.

    From what Ive read dobyns sounds like a major fuck up who tried to play both sides of the coin,now his choices made him realize he only fukked himself.

  44. Mikonos Says:

    F. Scott Fitzgerald said “The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.”

    Dobyn’s can’t hold the two opposing facts (he is a good guy or a bad guy) in his mind…and has lost his ability to function.

    The ATF hate him, the MC’s hate him. He is in a doom loop of trying to find somebody that likes him. Shep Smith, book readers, moviegoers, corporate managers, some new group to get over on.

    Problem is the gig is up. In his heart he knows it. I truly pity him.

  45. BigV Says:

    The Pops guy’s name is James Blankenship. He appeared on some Canadian program on snitches or Dobyns, using his real name. I think they did the same thing to him they do to all snitches: he’d outlived his usefulness and they decided they were tired babysitting him. He went around telling anyone who’d listen that Dobyns became unstable and that the whole thing was rogue right from the start.

    Jay lived among snakes, lived as a snake, and eventually another asp bit him. It’s strange he can act surprised.

    The government hates anyone who does not debase themselves by living off their tit, by living on their little reservations, by coming to them for every need. They want to destroy anyone who still lives a code of honor, who still lives independently. They have a whole army of Jay Dobyns’s working for them.

    The only thing we can do is continue to live true to principles we believe in, continue to live according the tenets of honor, loyalty, respect, and brotherhood, and continue to ride our bikes and live as free as we can.


  46. ruffrider Says:

    Goldsboro Williams

    Well said


  47. Goldsboro Williams Says:

    “When you gain someone’s trust and loyalty all with the pre-determined conclusion to betray it,” Dobyns tells me another time, “you are going to make enemies…”


    No shit.

    The sad thing is that he appears to be incapable of understanding why that is.

    Like Ruffrider said, I have no sympathy for him. I can’t make heads or tails of the psychological makeup of such people. I have known several people who have done this type of thing, and the only commonality that I can spot is an inability to make a real bond with another person as a friend. Undercover or not, they seem to come in fast and furious, and like a sociopath looking to make a quick buck they quickly befriend any person, when they sense that they can receive an advantage by doing so.

    But like all narcissists, they remain focused on themselves, and not on their friends. The friendships quit being productive as soon as the person is no longer reaping some type of benefit from it, and then he or she is ready to cultivate a new friend for their cult of personality.

    I have yet to meet one who in real life is any more loyal to his friends than he was to the people he befriended when he was just pretending. It’s all pretense to them.


  48. bob Says:

    while “Pops” may have a story to tell,the publishing outfits probably would not deem him worthy of any advance.Maybe he could make book-signing appearances,though(heh,heh).

  49. PlainOl'Dave Says:

    I’ve been curious what ever happened to “the street smart Pops,” Dobyns co-conspirator in all this. You’d think his story would be good for some easy money as well. Being that he’s a narc, I doubt it’s a guilty conscience or sense of shame for his part in this. Maybe he’s not the self-aggrandizing showman Dobyns is, or can’t afford an agent.

  50. ruffrider Says:

    Keep it straight in your mind what this sob did. He worked very hard to get into these peoples lives then shit all over them. I have no sympathy for his pitiful ass. I will not read any book that a RAT makes a dime off of.

    Great site
    RESPECT ruffrider

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