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Is The Whole Pagans Case Surplusage

Mon, Jan 25, 2010

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Is The Whole Pagans Case Surplusage

Defense attorneys in the Pagans case last week began filing motions that challenge the prosecution’s basic argument: Which is that motorcycle clubs are criminal enterprises and the way to outlaw them is by using the Racketeer Influenced Corrupt Organization (RICO) statute.

Three defendants, Martin Nuss, Christopher T. Brunner and Daniel J. Reilly all sought to sever their cases from the 44 Count racketeering indictment returned by a Federal Grand Jury last September 29th. That indictment charges 55 defendants with being part of a criminal enterprise that committed robbery, extortion, drug dealing, conspiracy to commit murder, arson, witness tampering and possession of explosives.

All Nuss, Brunner and Reilly are actually accused of doing is helping to run a club raffle. The motions all assert that these three men “will suffer a ‘substantial degree of prejudice’” if they are tried with the other defendants “for a conglomeration of distinct and separate offenses committed by others.” The motions all cite a 1946 case, Kotteakos v. United States, which ruled that “defendants have a ‘substantial right’ not to be tried en masse for a ‘conglomeration of distinct and separate offenses committed by others.’”

Surplusage

Last Friday, 18 other defendants filed a motion that attacked extensive passages in the indictment itself as “both irrelevant to the (actual) charges and prejudicial to the defendant(s).”

The motion asks the judge in the case, Thomas E. Johnston, to “strike surplusage” in the indictment. The legal term surplusage is commonly defined to mean “extraneous matter,” “allegations that are irrelevant” to a case and matter “wholly foreign and irrelevant to the merits of” a case. The surplusage this motion wants removed includes various colorful embellishments that are designed to paint the Pagans Motorcycle Club in the worst possible light.

These dazzling overstatements get tossed out like big shrimp and free scotch to gullible reporters who then swallow them whole. The strategy betrays a sophisticated and sympathetic comprehension of the working press and so far it is working beautifully. Not a bit of the press coverage of the Pagans case has been exactly reminiscent of H.L. Mencken.

The indictments in both the Mongols and Pagans cases, the two major motorcycle club cases prosecuted in the last year, are larded with surplusage. No Mongols attorney ever asked the judge to edit that indictment but rule 7(d) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure does allow the deletion of surplusage from a criminal indictment.

Friday’s motion also asserts that federal case law forbids surplusage because these accusations tend to be “prejudicial allegations that are neither relevant nor material to the charges made in the indictment. . . or not essential to the charge, . . . or unnecessary, or inflammatory.”

Proclaiming Motorcycle Clubs Rackets

The racketeering case against the Pagans, like other recent cases, assumes that motorcycle clubs must be rackets because belonging to a motorcycle club means participating in a racket because motorcycle clubs are rackets. The substantiation for such assumptions are usually amateurishly contrived fictions disseminated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. The ATF makes up a damning story, grants “exclusive access” to the story to an “infotainment outlet” like America’s Most Wanted or Gangland, then propagandizes the reported story as if it were objective fact.

This page previously reported an example of this propagandizing when an ATF Agent named Darrin Kozlowski who had infiltrated and participated in corrupting the Mongols Motorcycle Club, gave a sworn statement substantiated by material from “a nationally televised episode of the series Gangland.”

The Surplusage Motion

The motion filed Friday complains that the indictment unreasonably includes accusations about the Pagans Motorcycle Club such as:

(The Pagans Motorcycle Club is) “…a national criminal organization whose members functioned as a continuing unit for the common purposes of enriching club members through illegal activities, controlling territory, and keeping victims and rivals in fear. The Club is ‘territorial’ and does ‘violent crimes’ to ‘keep control over other motorcycle gangs in various part of the United States of America.’ Club members go to ‘church’ and wear certain ‘colors’ and ‘cuts.’ Club members ‘take pride in themselves as the one percent of motorcycle riders who were (sic) not law abiding.’ Club members own personal property bearing the word ‘Pagans.’ Two of the Club’s main rival ‘gangs’ were the Hells Angels and the Outlaws. Club members and associates ‘sometimes killed’ people who ‘ventured into Pagans territory.’”

The motion protests that, “A majority of such statements…including these, are irrelevant under (federal procedural) Rule 401 because they allege facts of no consequence to the determination of guilt on the charged conduct…. It is irrelevant what the enterprise’s members wore, their religious or cultural beliefs, their supposed ‘rivals,’ or how new members joined. These fulsome descriptions are not only irrelevant and immaterial, but they are equally prejudicial and inflammatory. Rule 7(d) requires the Court strike these portions of the indictment as surplusage.”

“In both conspiracy and association-in-fact RICO prosecutions,” the motion continues, “there is a ‘special danger’ that guilt will be assessed ‘solely by (a defendant’s) association’ with the allegedly criminal enterprise and not on an ‘individual and personal’ basis. To avoid guilt by association (‘all Pagans are criminals’), the Government must show that each individual associate was animated by a ‘common purpose,’ demonstrated by evidence of an ‘ongoing organization’ for which the associates carried out criminal acts…. Our Constitution protects freedom of non-criminal association. Yet multiple paragraphs of this Indictment describe activities that the First Amendment protects and that are irrelevant to guilt or innocence on the RICO-related criminal charges.”

Whether Judge Johnston is going to buy any of this or not remains to be seen. But the consequences of his ruling, whichever way it goes, will effect more than just this one case.

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55 Comments For This Post

  1. ROADKING64 Says:

    TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN , IVE KNOWN MR. NUSS 4 ABOUT 2 AND A HALF YEARS , IVE BEEN 2 HIS HOME 4 THANKSGIVING , CHRISTMAS AND MANY OTHER TIMES , NOT ONLY 4 DINNER BUT 2 HAVE HIM DO MY TATTOOS . IVE NEVER SEEN ANY DRUGS , EXPLOSIVES , GUNS , STOLEN MOTORCYCLES , OR ANY OTHER ILLEGAL ACTS . HE IS RASING HIS TEENAGE DAUGHTER WHO HAD CHOSEN 2 LIVE WITH HIM INSTEAD OF HER MOTHER . IVE NEVER SEEN HIM DO ANYTHING ILLEGAL OR HAVE ANYTHING 2 DO WITH ANYTHING ILLEGAL IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM . HIS CREDIBALTY IS UNTARNESHED AND JUST BECAUSE HE RIDES WITH A CERTAIN MOTORCYCLE CLUB DOES NOT MEAN HE IS A CRIMINAL . THE CASE AGAINST HIM I BELIEVE IS NOT FACTUAL BUT FICTIOUS .
    AM I 2 A CRIMANAL 4 BEING ASSOCIATED WITH HIM ? AM I A CRIMINAL 4 HAVING HIM TATTOO ME ? I DONT THINK SO . I DONT KNOW THE OTHER PEOPLE THAT R ACCUSED HERE , BUT ID STAKE MY REPTUATION ON MR. NUSS BEING JUST A CITIZEN THAT HAPPENS 2 B AFFILIATED WITH A MOTORCYCLE CLUB THAT HAS BEEN GIVEN AN OUTLAW REPUTATION . I WOULD TRUST HIM WITH THE KEYS 2 MY HOME IF I WAS AWAY ON BUSINESS AND HE HAS A KEY 2 FEED MY DOG WHEN I AM, OUT OF TOWN . I TRUST HIM AND HIS FAMILY 2 THE MAX .
    SINCERELY URS ,
    MARTIN BRUCE PARMER , CITIZEN AND PROUD AMERICAN

  2. BigV of Alabama Says:

    It seems to me that if the Feds don’t really watch this one, it might fall apart quicker than the Mongols case. It sure looks like that unless the Pagans draw a biker-hating judge, they should be able to get out of this one. Of course, that’s assuming common sense still matters in the judicial process.

  3. The Creep Says:

    I learn so much about law from this website. Thank you Rebel, no more will I have to watch “Harvey Birdman, Attorney at Law” to quench my thirst for legal knowledge haha. Seriously though, what you put up here is incredibly informative.

  4. nunya Says:

    all they have to do is pay taxes on the money raised from the raffle then there is no case.

  5. DocB Says:

    Dear BigV

    The Pagans got tired of the constant harasment they’d been getting for so many years so they had a lawyer complain to the U.S. Atorney General. Very shortly thereafter these indictements came down and doors got knocked down. Shit rolls down hill and someone was probably told “make a case with what you’ve got now, or shut the operation down”
    A hurried procecution is usually a fucked up one and you may be right about them beating most of this stuff, but the feds have tapes from no less than five inside sources.
    I don’t know anyone in the club and have no inside information. I heard the above from a defense lawyer who spoke publically, and this information is not privelaged, or confidential.

    Doc

  6. c8652 Says:

    To me this seems to be the most logical of legal arguments and should be first and foremost in any clubs petition for relief. They may lose to a couple of maverick judges but the legal thread is too overwhelming to ignore for long. It has to start somewhere. It is decent, moral and unencumbered by conjecture.

    Anything that is written and submitted as an un-controverted matter of fact must stand the test of time. I have read these same complaints and indictments as being amateurish and poorly constructed. In my uneducated opinion it would seem too often that the authors are not well read and as my dad said to me onetime ” A perfect example of a sophomore. Just enough knowledge in you to show what a dumbass you really are.” I don’t talk to him anymore but he was right.

    And that doesn’t change things today but this is a defendable argument. As I see things, this legal team has drawn attention to several glaring defects in the prosecutors’ case and now the Judge must weigh how important his legacy is to him. While the unpopular decision may derail his employment, the wrong decision will be peer dissected, argued and overturned. Eventually this case will resonate throughout the law of our land. And that may not be such a bad thing.

    r/

    c8652

  7. YYZ Skinhead Says:

    Just when you thought Gangland had run out of biker clubs to pick on, up pops paint-by-the-numbers “Devils Diciples” (last week) to scare more upper-middle-class Americans with yet another Big Bad Outlaw Motorcycle Gang. Somebody behind the scenes has a painfully obvious fetish for bikers, Crips and Sureños: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangland_(TV_series)

    YYZ Skinhead

  8. Rebel Says:

    Dear ROADKING64,

    I believe you are preaching to the choir. But feel free to preach on anytime.

    Thanks for commenting.

    your pal,
    Rebel

  9. Rebel Says:

    Dear YYZ Skinhead,

    I believe that club was originally named for a 1959 movie about the Revolutionary War starring Burt Lancaster and Kurt Douglass.

    “In this episode of Gangland…the fantastic, sensational semi-truth behind the movie stars you always thought you liked!”

    Rebel

  10. VFFV Says:

    This is nothing new,we club members wear our lifestyle on our backs,and we are very good targets for LE and the media who love to print any rumor or lies that LE deem printable.All this shit is falling apart in court as usual,I believe the general public is getting hip to whats going on, as well as these Federal Judges.More made up shit.

  11. Chola Lover Says:

    Rebel,
    Thank you once again for keeping us reguler people in the loop. Someone should forward copies of these motions to the Mongol’s attorneys. There are still a couple who have not taken a plea. If this judge rules in favor of the pagens, it will be a real shame for all the Mongol’s that lost hope of the truth comeing out about all the BS the ATF added to the indictment… Some of them are getting 3-4 years just for pleading guilty to the crime (crime in the ATF’s eyes) of being a Mongol.

  12. BigV of Alabama Says:

    DocB: Thanks for schooling me. This site has been amazing education on the depth of depravity of the U.S. federal government. Having grown up in NC and having seen the Pagans of Virginia, Pilot Mountain and the chapter in S.C., I never had anything but respect for them and their club. I find it disheartening that the government has been as successful as they have been in finding snitches.

    When we lose our honor, we lose being men. We cease to have humanity, and we become no better than animals. It sure seems like that’s what the Feds want for this world.

    Support your Local 1%ers.

    -BigV

  13. Mr. America Says:

    Rebel, when are you supposed to have that face to face with T-Dogg/Johnny Coo Coo? Or, did I miss something? As always, good work. And, Thank you.

  14. BigV of Alabama Says:

    T-Dogg/Johnny-Crazy-Train probably still has the red ass from being chewed out by his superiors for first having gone online and made comments, and second from having been caught making said comments.

    I doubt he’d show up or send any other agent in his stead, especially given the fact he libeled Rebel, and that if Rebel was able to verify the ATF provenance of anyone who showed up- it would just make the ATF look that much worse.

    Face it, T-dogg isn’t going to show up. If “he” does/did it would only end in another loss for the already embarassed, haggard and seemingly senseless ATF.

    On the off chance they’re stupid enough to send a CI or a plant, the resulting comedy and story would likely prove to further Rebel’s status as a legend in the 1%er community.

  15. FATF Says:

    Rebel, What happen at the Hyatt on 1/8/2010?

  16. JAMES Says:

    I started to watch the GANGLAND SERIES the other evening in which the DEVILS DISCIPLES were on, man I can not believe the shit coming from these guys going on the television trying to get famous, somehow I foresee them becoming the next to get R.I.C.O. slapped all over them.I didn’t watch the whole show as it was pretty sad watching and listening to what could be or could not be the truth, but GANGLAND never exposes anything uplifting about CLUBS and I still think the U.S.GOV. produces it behind the scenes.

  17. Snow Says:

    I saw the episode with the Devils Disciples, gotta agree with James on this one, the shit that was said on tape was stupid and uncalled for. Wadd is full of himself for sure, damn shame when a man become a bitch….

  18. Rebel Says:

    Dear FATF,

    There is a long arcade across the front of the hotel in Dago. All the entrances lead into this arcade. The check in desk is in the middle and there is a bar at each end. I strolled slowly from bar to bar. Sometimes I sat down in the bars. Once I went upstairs to the mezzanine and looked around.

    For a little while I strolled around outside on the other side of the front doors. I was fairly distinctively dressed in that crowd. I was wearing a leather shirt and my flame and skull cowboy boots. I never saw Ciccone. If he was there he never saw me. At one point I saw this one, pretty big guy outside who was sort of dressed in biker attire: Wallet with a chain, work boots, Wranglers, tee shirt, buzz cut. I thought he might be someone so I asked him, “You with the ATF?”

    I think I blew the fucking guy’s mind. Turns out, he was there for the “Queer History Symposium.” So, I apologized, you know. I don’t think he even knew what ATF means but he liked my leather shirt and my boots. So I quickly went back inside to one of the bars.

    No cuts, no ATF windbreakers, no recognizable faces. Just me.

    So maybe T-Dogg will get to call me a punk, a bitch and a child molester to my face some other time and we will take it from there.

    your pal,
    Rebel

  19. Rebel Says:

    Dear Mr. America,

    Please see “Dear FATF.” My fingers are tired.

    your pal,
    Rebel

  20. Mr. America Says:

    OTFLMFAO!

  21. Square Verbose Doc Says:

    Dear Rebel:

    I think that T-Dogg attended a seminar on the whaling industry in 18th century America, and then had an epiphany. He hopped the next flight to Boston and showed up at the site of one of those restored whaling villages on the Massachusetts coast. There, he took a job as a costumed historical presenter. He now goes by “T-Dogge”, adding the “e” to his name for that “Ye Olde” effect which is so popular in New England historical restorations. Strolling through the restored village in his old time sailor gear, he came upon a group who play the role of “privateers” who have been smuggling in grog without paying the excise tax; being T-Dogg, he immediately infiltrated said group, and since then has been bringing news of their activities to the local Customs House by means of notes he writes in a parchment notebook with a quill pen when they are not looking. The costumed historical presenter who portrays the Customs Collector has not had the heart to tell him that it is not a real Customs House, they are not real privateers, and it is not 1802.

  22. sled tramp Says:

    Square Verbose Doc,
    HEY! Quit insulting my family….My house mouse is a Starbuck/Coffin…
    (Man…and I thought I could get off a thread….)

  23. Rebel Says:

    Dear Square Verbose Doc,

    Actually the way it was, T-Dogg found 100 historical re-enactors and he paid three of them $8,000 a month to “get something” on the other 97. T-Dogg did not actually take part. T-Dogg was the guy locked in the white van parked at the end of the dock.

    Soon the airwaves were filled with dramatic video of the “bust of the largest criminal re-enactment enterprise in the history of living historical re-enactments.” Predicate charges included possession of illegal muskets, illegal harpoons, illegal leg irons and whaling gang paraphernalia including scrimshaw. Eighteen months after the bust, most defendants remained in legal limbo, the prosecutor quit, the judge died and T-Dogg declared unconditional victory.

    Two of the heroic undercover whaling gang re-enactors got book deals. The third undercover moved to North Carolina and on T-Dogg’s instructions and using T-Dogg’s dollars, recruited locally known drug dealers and thugs to form a whaling re-enactment troupe there. The North Carolina chapter of the notorious Whaling Re-Enactors criminal enterprise was nothing but trouble from the beginning but it soon afforded T-Dogg the opportunity to carry out his follow up bust. In a rare public appearance on America’s Most Wanted, T-Dogg commented, “See, I told you these notorious Whaling Re-Enactors were all dangerous criminals. They could rape your mother next!”

    “Keep up the heroic work, Agent T-Dogg,” the host, John Walsh replied. “It is heroes like you who have made America what it is today.”

    No one is exactly sure what T-Dogg said next, from somewhere off stage. But many who were there that night recall him screaming, “You call this a fucking latte!?”

    Your pal,
    Rebel

  24. Square Verbose Doc Says:

    Dear sled tramp:

    Oh dear, now I’m in trouble with the man from the North Pole again.
    But there was no insult intended; your house mouse is no obviously no historical presenter–she’s the real thing!

    As for the subject of my semihistorical fiction, well, I don’t think that his name and the phrase “real thing” ever appear in the same paragraph.

  25. Square Verbose Doc Says:

    Dear Rebel:

    If I’d been drinking one, I would have spit my latte –my “fucking latte”– onto the screen.

    I’m off to watch another episode of “WhalingReEnactorLand”.

  26. Damon Says:

    Look out for Season One of ‘Sons Of Sodomy’

    Rumoured to be based on a real historical society. Be the first Peckerhead Original on your block with an authentic SOS skull & crossbones t-shirts now available at http://www.fxnetworks.com/shows/peckerheadoriginals/sonsofsodomy/

  27. Square Verbose Doc Says:

    On a serous note, I caught the Devils Diciples Episode of Gangland.

    First, there was nothing presented showing that the two men–who committed what was undeniably a truly heinous crime –had anything to do with the club beyond one of them being a relative of a member.

    My second thought was that testifying against these guys should be understandable by anyone, under any circumstances; I said on here a while ago that few people were truly monsters, but Wadd’s nephew and his partner would fit my definition pretty easily–and no one is going to convince me otherwise.

    My third thought was that Billy Wadd loses a lot of credibility by seeming to have made a media career out of the whole episode. I was left wondering if he had other disputes with people and was now linking everything to his testimony. Code of silence or no, I just found it hard to believe that any club would compel him to protect Wolfenbarger and Lincoln, and felt that if the club were really going to come down on him as he claims, given how public he has been with things, they would have already done so.

  28. Jabba Says:

    Purely opinion of course, entirely hypothetical, but let’s just say…

    “You don’t talk to LE. Ever. You have a problem like that, deal with it yourself and make sure it stays buried… or burned… or fed to the pigs… or at the bottom of a lake… or…”

    Just my opinion of course.

    Jabba
    SYLO

  29. Jabba Says:

    Personally, I wouldn’t talk to LE. Ever.

    You have a problem like that, you take care of business and make sure it’s never a problem for anybody else.

    I call this a public service.

    Just my opinion.

    Of course, I’m also lucky enough not to be related to child-murdering shit. Always helps.

    Jabba
    SYLO

  30. sled tramp Says:

    SVD,
    We’ll eventually get through to ya Doc…no worries…baby steps…baby steps…

  31. Rebel Says:

    Dear Square Verbose Doc,

    Like Jabba said.

    your pal,
    Rebel

  32. Square Verbose Doc Says:

    “You have a problem like that, you take care of business and make sure it’s never a problem for anybody else.”

    Jaba: while I am definitley not in favor of this approach being applied on a global scale, I’m also certain that if I saw you play judge, jury, and excecutioner to Wolfenbarger and Lincoln on my front porch, knowing who they were and what they did, when the police came around I’d have to tell them that I was inside watching America’s Most Wanted and didn’t hear or see anything.

    “We’ll eventually get through to ya Doc…no worries…baby steps…baby steps…”

    Thanks sled tramp. I appreciate the mixture of exasperation, sarcasm, patience and humor. Actually once I thought about it, I kind of knew what the answer would be, that you never make exceptions, (although I’m still not sure that anybody can ever speak for everybody all the time). Humor me for a minute here (as you have up to now, probably more than I deserve)

    In this case the perpetrators weren’t club members–and the victims had NO connection to the club. I guess I wondered if there would be an exception because the crime involved children–and even among its some of its detractors, the biker culture has the reputation of being very, very protective of children. But yeah–the taking care of your own problems things takes precedence. That leaves me with these questions. If the crime had been committed by club members, what would have happened to them? If Wadd had left well enough alone, would Wolfenbarger and Lincoln really have been taken care of? In this case I’m not sure there were many surviving family members, but if there were, after TCB, how would a club deal with them–and how without causing more problems for everyone would the family find out that justice had been done? (not that that would even have much impact or import after losing children)

    Please understand that a lot of the questions I pose have to do with trying to think about how a group of who I have come to know here as fundementally decent people (in contrast to stereotypical public portrayals) navigate a system of rules that often sets them at odds with what other fundementally decent people think should happen. (and I’m definitely not talking about LE, just other fundementally decent people who happen to follow a different set of rules).

    Respect,
    SVD

  33. sled tramp Says:

    SVD,
    In a nutsack, our world..our rules.
    Their world…their rules.
    Unusual circumstances of extreme situations require extreme consequences.Generally though,there is a common mindset among the majority regarding both kids and cops.

  34. BigV Says:

    SVD:

    The thing is, in certain places and certain people, say we’re talking about a culture built on honesty and respect- like the old west. If someone owned a mad dog, and that mad dog hurt someone- they put that dog done. Moreover, if someone anticipated a mad dog with enough evidence, they were responsible enough to put it down.

    Some people, maybe, somewhere still believe in honor, loyalty, honesty, responsibility, and respect. If you have those things for yourself and you live by them and you have family(blood or not) and they live by them, you have a code and set of values that must be respected.

    Having said that…

    Read through the damn lines. This guy was a dealer who talked with cops. This guy was a dealer who talked with cops who had arrested him. WTF ?

    Now, “a ruse arrest” was setup. How about Uncle Johnny Wadd was still muling rocks and the Sheriff’s Office decided to pick him up. They’d maybe heard rumors- hell, two can never keep a secret- and decided to roust Uncle Johnny Wadd and they find a stash or a lot of undeclared cash.

    Talkative Uncle Johnny sees a way out and keeps his cop buddies on his good side.

    He narcs on his relative.

    What do you think really happened ?

    And with the fact Gangland had no more goddamn respect for anyone or their property(& property rights) than to make some 44 patches for their shitty, fictional “recreation” scenes, why would anyone believe what they have to say ?

  35. Damon Says:

    SVD

    In a town where I lived a few years ago, the hospital appointed a new guy to run the psych ward. His first step was to immediatly discontinue all the patients meds, including out outpatients. He wanted to personally assess every patient in their natural state, so that he could decide what medication, if any, they required. Inside a month, six patients suicided. Many believed that psychiatrist was directly responsible for those deaths. But, of course, the only way to convict him would have been to get other psychiatrists to testify that he’d made a terrible mistake. So, Doc – if you had to help a colleague cover up six unlawful deaths, how would you do it? You’re a medical doctor as well as a psych, surely during your career you’ve helped cover up a surgical mistake or a misdiagnosis here or there over the years. So, in the words of tha other famous psychiatrist – quid pro quo, Clarice. How well can a psychiatrist cover his tracks compared to a GP?

    Nw if I have read your post wrong, ten I apologise without reservaion; but I think it’s asking “hey, if you and a group f friends committed a couple of murders, how would you cover it up? how would you tell the family?” What the fuck? I’ve generally kept myself to myself over the years, it’s the way I prefer it, but I’ve known all sorts of bikers al over the world, dozens of ‘em. And I have no idea what any club or individual would do to cover up a murder. How on earth would anyone reading this page be able to honestly answer that? I sure as shit can’t, and I’ll swear that in Court. I have no idea why you would even ask me that question.

    Quite frankly, I’ve never so much as assaulted anybody, and I would be reluctant to keep company with someone who went about bragging that they ad. You can go to jail for shit like that.

    Let me say that again, slowly – you can go to jail for shit like that.

    Some of things that should be very clear from reading this page for a few months:

    - that different clubs do things as differently as psychiatrists and gynaecologists. Different chapters within different clubs do things very differently; just as Jungians differ from Freudians. And beyond a general familiarity, it is a dangerous practice for anyone to speak on behalf of a group of which he is not a member.
    - this site is monitored. Jesus wept. I’m not much of a technophobe, but since the Dave Burgess case hit this page, I try and make sure that I don’t write anything on this page that I would not want read out at a sentencing. Murder? TCB? I have no idea what the fuck you’re talking about.

    Damon

  36. Damon Says:

    I do apologise for all the typos; this laptop can’t spell for shit…

  37. Jabba Says:

    Nobody’s talking MURDER here Damon, just, erm, Personal Problem Solving.

    A bit like squeezing pimples on your ass.

    Call me an Agony Aunt.

    Jabba
    SYLO

    Legal Notice:
    Please note that Jabba does not represent anybody else’s opinions but his own.

    “I may not be right, but nobody’s gonna tell me I’m wrong.”
    (Lynyrd Skynyrd – best fucking band in the world, ever).

  38. Square Verbose Doc Says:

    Damon;
    Thanks for your comments; thanks for taking the time.

    “Nw if I have read your post wrong, ten I apologise without reservaion; but I think it’s asking “hey, if you and a group f friends committed a couple of murders, how would you cover it up? how would you tell the family?” What the fuck?”

    Of course I wouldn’t ask that. I was asking hypotheticals about how a past event might have happened differently depending upon various participant’s initial actions. Nothing more. I apologize for any offence it may have caused and maybe some questions are better left unasked. And don’t worry apologize for misreading me–it’s my responsibility to make myself clearer. I think I may have been a little hypercharged because I get that way (as I’m sure many if not most do) when I read or hear of violence perpetrated against children.

    Regarding your hypothetical about the Australian psychiatrist:

    I’m not sure he should have been convicted because I don’t think it is a good idea to criminalize what amounts to gross malpractice, but I do think he should have lost his license. He seems like an arrogant man; he felt that only he was qualified to diagnose and treat patients, and was determined to carry this out no matter how much suffering ensued. There are safe and sensible ways to go about things if you suspect that your predecessor overmedicated patients; this guy chose a grand gesture which was more about showing that there was a new sherriff in town than anything else. An arrogant doctor is a dangerous thing.

    You are right in noticing that organized medicine is something of a tribal brotherhood (although coed)but our main directive is to protect patients, not one another.

    Sometimes good doctors–competent, acting in good faith, with the apropriate level of humility–are persecuted for bad outcomes. I wouldn’t participate in that, ever. But would I cooperate in making sure an arrogant or incompetent doctor who is hurting people has to reconsider his or her career plans? Yes.

  39. Damon Says:

    Jabba

    It was clear to me that you were speaking in purely hypothetical terms. My concern is that the less experienced might be tempted to overstate their experience and come to unwanted attention. You know what I’m saying.

    Respect

    Damon

  40. Square Verbose Doc Says:

    Damon:

    I reread the last two points on your post, and your reply to Jabba. These are points well taken. While I assume people will answer or not answer questions to the degree that they feel appropriate, I’ll try to be careful not to pose questions that could inadvertently or in the heat of the moment be answered in a way that could cause anyone a problem.

    Respect
    SVD

  41. Damon Says:

    SVD

    I draw the analogy to demonstrate that the answers to some questions are self-evident, and some are unanswerable.Some of the answers you seek, you already know – you just haven’t recognised the template yet.

    It surprises me how often people hand the police a silver platter bearing an open and shut case against them – all because they didn’t know when to keep their mouth shut. It makes me wince when I see anybody start asking questions that open the door to bad consequences. I’ve heard guys in bars, on trains, at work, talk openly about shit that I’d be loathe to discuss with a priest.

    I understand your thirst for knowledge, and for the record I think you make an interesting contribution to this page. I’m glad to see you here. It’s also important to keep in mind that discussing the wrong things in the wrong way, within the earshot of the wrong people, can get people killed. Someone only has to drop that one wrong phrase that reflects “information known only to the perpetrator” and before you know it, that which should have stayed buried gets exhumed, pardon the pun. It’s one of the reasons I avoid groups. I’m not going to jail – or worse – because someone else didn’t know how or when to keep their mouth shut.

    Loose lips sink ships. And clubs, and lives. Your profession wrote the book on confidentiality. Be part of the solution.

    Respects

    Damon

  42. Jabba Says:

    Damon > you’re well understood and your point was taken.

    Sometimes I like to be a smart ass when keeping my mouth shut would be a far better idea.

    Landed me in the emergency ward more than once… but you should’ve seen the other guy.

    LL&R

    Jabba
    SYLO

  43. Damon Says:

    SVD: My last post was written before I saw your reply. We’re good.

  44. RVN69 Says:

    Never posted here before, but this is such an intelligent site I had to comment on this case. I wear a 3piece patch, club name is not important as it is not relevent to this, and what associations my club may or may not have with people or clubs I choose to comment on. What I think is most striking and frightening in this case is the fact that the majority of the racketeering charges are the result of a simple raffle! A Fucking Raffle!!!!! No large quantities of drugs or money were found, hell they didn’t even seize X number of kilos of raffle tickets! These men are being persecuted for holding a raffle, you know just like the ones the local volunteer fire dept does, or the VFW, if the didn’t have Surt on their back this would be laughed out of court, but instead people’s lives are being ruined using the weight and power of the federal government, and our tax money for holding a fucking raffle!! I have one question for Rebel as I do not know where to begin searching for the answer. Is there really a federal charge for illegal bodyguarding, and I believe conspiracy to carry a weapon illegally? I’ll do my own research if you could point me in the right direction, it seems to me that these are made up charges.

    FTF, FTP and All Snitches

    Respect to all that earn it, To the Pagan Nation stay strong in your struggle against this persecution.

    RVN69

  45. Not Surprised Says:

    SVD:

    I don’t think this club had any expectations about protecting Wolfenbarger & accomplice. I do think they questioned the veracity of a man who would so readily offer up his own blood relative.

    I do not know Billy “Wadd” Smith, but it strains credulity to think he suddenly experienced a change of heart. Maybe he did.

    However, if that is the case; if he had a conflict of conscience, who else would he deem “evil” and what else would he say?

    One cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons.

    Yes, I am saying were it me instead of Billy Wadd, I would not have called the cops.

  46. Square Verbose Doc Says:

    Not Suprised:

    Thank you for a clear and candid response.
    In your answer, I think I see evidence of the “template” to which Damon referred.

    I have a few more thoughts about all this; it may be important for me and others on the outside to recognize that for someone following that “template”, not turning them in is not the same as condoning or even protecting them–and that takes some time and thought to get one’s mind around. I think the Gangland “documentary” presented it as the club condoned and protected the act, precisely in order to portray the club in the worst light possible. Similarly, I think they never clearly specify the relationship of the nephew and the accomplice to the club in order to imply a strong connection which may or may not have existed. No matter what the actual situation was; the producers want us to assume that these guys were strongly connected.

    In fact, I think that this particular club was chosen for portrayal from among many groups precisely because of an INDIRECT connection to an extremely heinous crime and the existence of a person apparently very willing to discuss things in a public venue.

    Therefore, to me, the way things are presented in this episode of Gangland are more clearly in line with an agenda of propoganda than of sensationalism for profit–perhaps more than any other episode I have seen.

    Nothing new there, I guess.

    SVD

  47. Not Surprised Says:

    SVD:

    You are correct that not involving LEO is not the same as condoning. In truth, Wolfenbarger may have inadvertently made an “accessory after the fact” of his uncle by requesting clothing from him in an attempt to destroy or conceal evidence. The uncle may have found himself in an impossible situation, we are not told.

    Knowledge of a crime does not make one an accomplice. Getting rid of a murder weapon (for example) does.

    I have not seen the episode of Gangland. But it is safe to say that Wolfenbarger is a complete idiot,and likely would have brought about his own demise eventually.

    I’m fairly certain the club looked at it as a “family matter” that the uncle should have handled. From where I sit, Billy Wadd is an opportunist seeking personal gain.

    There is at times, a fine line between “personal” business and club business. Other than the fact that Billy Wadd was a patch holder, I am finding it difficult to see a common thread with the club.

    In a perfect world, you do what you have to do to protect your brothers. Certainly Billy Wadd cannot be accused of doing this.

  48. Not Surprised Says:

    RVN69:

    Though I agree with you that a raffle is not necessarily a heinous crime, I think the grounds for a RICO exist because:

    1) The actual prize offered to participants (allegedly) did not exist. This now becomes a crime.

    2) Under RICO, transporting proceeds across state lines, distribution of these proceeds falls under maintaining a criminal enterprise, and anyone who got one dollar or sold one ticket can be indicted.

    Is this fair? No. Car dealerships do this shit all the time. If you consider that RICO was drafted during an era when traditional crime organizations were allegedly skimming millions from Las Vegas, you will understand that asset forfeiture clauses relating to illegal proceeds from “gambling” are some of the most severe under RICO.

    And yes, I 100% agree it is “persecutory” to attempt to apply this federally, but the legal grounds are certainly there.

    RICO is never about what can be proven in court, it is about destroying the network of loyalty by pitting members against each other in alleging a conspiracy. As soon as one person signs off, then this legitimizes the “conspiracy.”

    I recall a fairly famous incident in the early 1960′s when the Kennedy Justice Dept deported a well-known crime figure for violating “The Migratory Bird Act” (with a potential penalty of 5 years in prison) because they had nothing else to indict him on.

    Such seems to be the case here.

  49. RVN69 Says:

    Not Suprised,
    My concern/anger at the raffle aspect of the case is not that the ATF/FBI may be legally correct about the charges, although I would argue that the prize did actually exist, but that the monster that is federal law enforcement has gotten so big and ravenous that any raffle is considered a federal crime. If any sanity ruled in the “feds” world, the only possible federal violation would be if the club had paid any taxes on the profit of this raffle. I am amazed/dismayed that things have gotten to this point. I know that I am preaching to the choir here, I guess I just wanted someone else to publicly recognize the absurdity of using the RICO act and the manpower of 2 federal agencies, ATF/FBI to persecute someone for an act as simple as holding a raffle, interstate or not. Although it has not been mentioned here, subsequent to this case, local cops in VA raided the house of a VA Pagan’s member allegedly searching for drugs. The shot the man if front of his wife, and failed to find even a trace of any drugs in his home. They conducted this no knock raid in the early morning in spite of the fact that this man was well know in the community, had a steady job at which he had never missed a single day in something like 10years, and he had a pending court appearance in 2 days for which he had engaged an attorney and made previous appearances. They could have detained him on the way to work then returned to his house to search, this seems more like they were more concerned about the “Execution” part than the “Search” part of the warrant!
    RVN69

  50. pb68slab Says:

    CONSPIRICY has become the key word or charge. It’s a BIG fishing net , one size fits all.

  51. DocB Says:

    Dear Not Suprised
    Quote:
    “I recall a fairly famous incident in the early 1960’s when the Kennedy Justice Dept deported a well-known crime figure for violating “The Migratory Bird Act” (with a potential penalty of 5 years in prison) because they had nothing else to indict him on.

    Such seems to be the case here.”

    I think when word came down from the top to shit or get off the pot, they just went with what they had on hand, instead of waiting until they could build a better case. Who knows what they’ll get from the guys that turned over.

    RVN69
    I agree. They tend to criminalize everything and federalize all crime.
    It’s out of controol. I don’t think anybody in this country will be any safer no mater what the outcome of this case.

    Respectfully
    Doc

  52. Not Surprised Says:

    RVN69:

    Very familiar with the James Hicks killing. Very.

    Here is the way I see it. Say your Boss wants to fire you. Everyone takes a few office supplies home now and then, including you, despite there being a written blurb about it in the employee handbook.

    Maybe he wants someone else to have your position, maybe he doesn’t like you. After working a little late one day, you snag a box of paper clips because your kid asked you to get some for a school project and hey, you’re already late.

    The next day the human resources officer and your boss ask you to “come in and sit down.” You are shown your signature acknowledging receipt of the employee handbook. You are then told you were seen by an anonymous witness pocketing a box of paper clips. you are told you are terminated for cause: theft of company property.

    You have no recourse. you are offered no severance pay and further, you are not now entitled to unemployment compensation. In addition to this, your termination will be documented as part of your permanent personnel file.

    Security escorts you to your vehicle and confiscates your keys.

    Shit like this happens daily in corporate America.

    I agree with you that the Federal Government acted in just such a trivial and arbitrary manner, and it is despicable, chickenshit.

  53. RVN69 Says:

    Not Surprised,
    I apoligize for not knowing that your are very familiar with both the James Hicks case and the Derek Hale case, didn’t do my recon! Those two cases of Police execution cry out for intervention by one of those groups that keep the pressure on the court for justice. I won’t hold by breath, both these men have been throughly demonized by the press for their club membership. As I am sure you know the papers that covered both murders were full of comments from citizens to the effect that “the got what they deserved”. I find it sad and disheartening that in a country founded on personal freedom and responsibility over 30% of the public wants this type society. How many times do you hear people say about everything they disagree with, “There should be a law against that” Seems like soon they will get their wish, wonder how they will like it when it applies to them.

    Respects
    RVN69

  54. BDOPC Says:

    When will the 1%er world wake up and see who it is ratting out to the Feds. and the State and local cops.These people have been doing this for at the least four decades if not longer. I have seen them put up wannabes to murder my Brothers, while promising them their colors for their act’s. These people say one thing to the world at large and do the exact opposite of what they publicly proclaimed to what they say. People, do not be fooled by their statements or their drive for power, and money. I am a old time 1% er who still believes in the word Brother, not BRO or BEND RIGHT OVER and will stand next to any man who stays true to what the true meaning of what 1% er truly means. L.P.D.P stay the fight and do not let anyone tell you different

  55. sawedoff5 Says:

    That “surpluses” stuff isn’t even evidence. It’s like something from “Gossip Girl” stuffed into an indictment. Seen that alot of times and some judges eat it up.
    Most of it is (supposed to be) inadmissable in court.
    Lots of Prosecutors pull that shit in front of jurys if they have a judge that will let them get away with it.
    They love bringing up secondhand or third or fourth hand old stories about what the Pagan’s have done in the past. Jurys wet themselves over “bad guy with bike” stories.
    It’s do fucking stupid.
    It reads like the “neener neeener neener” prosecution.

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