More Ciccone Chat

December 3, 2009

All Posts, News

Dear Tee lil dee to tha Oh double Gee writing to me from Fuckthatbitchrebel

Come on now. Is that even a real website? I was most interested to read your comment:

“Listen here you know nothing, no dick faggot if I’m Ciccone PROVE IT!!!!!! You claim to know more than you’ve let on, then PROVE IT!!! We both know you can’t and rather than be a man and apologize and admit you called the wrong person a faggot munckin (sic) ATF bitch, you just burry (sic) your head in the sand and say you don’t want to argue.

So Rebel you cunt, I say again…Grow a set, be a man and let’s see some evidence that I’m Ciccone!!”

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rebel is a “fabricating yo-yo.” I get that a lot.

One To Tha Two

First thing, I have to say, there you go again with the multiple explanation marks. For the Lord’s sake, dude! Are you even aware you do that? I thought you were supposed to be like Sherlock Holmes or something. Please get one of the other ATF Agents to explain to you what the phrase “literary forensics” means and then use it in a sentence five times a day for three days before you write back. Okay? Just a little hint. My gift to you.

Second, do I have to take down my pants so you can look at my ass and see that I don’t have a tail? Prove it? Prove it?! Motherfucker, please. Or should I say, motherfucker please!!!!

As a rule, I do not discuss the methods or techniques I use to verify what I write. I prefer to use attributable sources but because of the nature of the beat I cover many of the sources I use are not attributed. In almost every case I know who I am talking to and I evaluate the source. I have a source who has told me, for example, that she thinks the nom sur le route T-Dogg is the invention of Eric Hardin. That might be a little too pat. And I only mention it now as an example of the many things I am told that I do not say. I am pretty sure you already know some of the other things I have been told but have not said. Right?

I protect sources. And, I do not know for a fact that T-Dogg today is exactly the same ATF Agent he was in June. I would ask you to think about it if I thought you could. I am not there watching you! For all I know, today you are Jenna McGuire. In June that ATF Agent’s name was John Ciccone.

Three To Tha Four

Third, the story I wrote last week and posted Monday ran about 11,000 words which is really asking a lot of readers. If I had been willing to go longer I would have gone into the “science of lying” as it is practiced at the ATF. A very rough draft of the piece included a couple of paragraphs about the work of former ATF Agent J.J. Newberry. I also really wanted to take a look at the ease with which the ATF Undercover Agents in Operation Black Rain passed their lie detector tests.

But I am still very interested in the culture of lying that seems to permeate the Bureau. Like this comment you have sent me. I am even interested in the sociology of it. Maybe a better word would be pathology. I am given to understand that ATF Agents even routinely lie to each other. Have you ever read Genesis 10? The Tower of Babel? Ring a bell?

Fourth, I do not discuss leads and stories that I have started to pursue and then abandoned. And, I think we both know what I am talking about here.

Five To Tha Six

Fifth, you are aware that these words you are writing are in public? Right? You are not ranting and fuming at me in invisible ink.

Although, on the other hand, I must admit that I really appreciate you opening this window into the soul of a “well-respected ATF Agent” so I could peer inside. Thank you for that. Please write anytime. Tell me more T-Dogg. Tell me more. Please feel free to vent.

Sixth, in regards to this page and your comments and your anonymous leads and hints at another current investigation and all that fucking shit: I think you have become like the General who is perfectly prepared to fight the last war. Do you really think, for example, that when you bluster at me and try to bully me that I will whimper and drop to my knees and eat Cheerios out of your fucking hand? Personally, I think your smart move here is to sit down for a couple of days, and take many deep breaths, and then ask yourself, “What does this asshole Rebel want and how fast can I give it to him.” I know you have my email address.

That would really be your best opportunity to influence what I write and to help me appreciate your side of things. This is not exactly Watergate, okay? You are not exactly Richard Nixon. I follow the leads. I write what I find. It is straightforward and easy. If not 101, this is no more than cub cops reporting 102.

Now if you will excuse me, I have the fucking flu.

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95 Responses to “More Ciccone Chat”

  1. Jtbb Says:

    I dont know if this will get posted but there are a few not many retired cops me being one who are ashamed of all these LE clubs running around trying to b 1%ers
    I was a cop actually a sgt of detectives i took the test because of benefits and union representation
    Not because i wanted to b a tough guy
    There are many punk cops hiding behind badge just like punks hiding behind PATCHES
    I worked in places 1%ers would cringe
    Carry guns in projects for the kids was a neccesity
    How many times are u gonna get jumped for lunch $$ sneakers jackets
    I held nothing against them
    It was a dangerous game but we played
    So just remember u play the game sometimes u lose
    Fuck the iron order

  2. Rebel Says:

    Dear I.J

    Sorry about that.


  3. I.J Says:

    You’re shitting me right? After all that chest beating? Are you sure this person posting this bullshit is not some 13 year old punk? And Rebel my name is I.J not L.J. Great site and enjoy the reading.

  4. sled tramp Says:

    RE: Cuntconne XMAS shopping…
    I’m pretty sure coal companies will make home deliveries.
    sled tramp

  5. Rebel Says:

    Dear LJ,

    You know, Ciccone had to do his Christmas shopping.


  6. bobby Says:

    TO: SELFISH ONE-Congrats on Flying the PATCH Again. Pulling for you guys


  7. I.J Says:

    So what happended in the fight at the OK coral? I see only one is still posting……

  8. sled tramp Says:

    Yep,ol’ mom was a good woman…..miss driving up state to visit her on weekends…man, 15 years was a long time…
    sled tramp

  9. Bud Says:

    Sled Tramp,
    How can anyone say that bikers are sub human like L.E. thinks? Just lokk at your post,obviously a grown man doin your own thing but to this day still doin what your mom tells you to do ! hahaha

    And lets go old school, shall we? Ill bake you a cake with a file in it, hows that ?

  10. 10Guage Says:


    Finding out in a small way that we are not invincible is a good thing and worth the small cost of embarrassment. Weather it is dropping your scoot or in my case crashing it in your driveway showing off to your people, hurting your back carrying a beer keg over your head, or getting your nose broke and losing a couple of teeth in a fight. These little reminders help remind us of our mortality. It doesn’t keep us from being men or even making mistakes but it will help to remind us of the consequences next time we ride 95+ in a residential with our sunglasses on and our headlights off. And help to turn wild kicks into calculated risks. Don’t know if this is a good thing or a bad thing yet as I’m not quite old enough to have good perspective on it. But I know from gray beards I have talked with that it is definitely no accident that they are still around. I hope at least one of those obnoxious dicks had to wait the six hours it takes to get sewn back up.
    Strength, Honor, Respect, RESILIENCE

  11. sled tramp Says:

    Was bored and re reading the above posts.Regarding traffic stops…
    My daughter has a small plastic toy chimpanzee about the size of a fifty cent piece.I’m going to drill a hole in it and hang it off my mirrior on the bike.Next time I get stopped, I’ll wait until the L.E. walks up…and start patting the chimp’s ass.
    “License and registration,What’s that you have there sir?”
    “Well, occifer…my mom told me in times of stress, I should spank my monkey,and your overbearing demeanor seems a tad threatening so I’m doing what mom suggested…”.
    Now, if I draw a rookie,or just feel OK about it, I’d probably ask,”You should try it for stress relief occifer.Beats those rubber balls..Put yer balls aside and try spanking my monkey”…
    I’m sure my visiting hours will be open to all of you.Send cookies at Xmas OK?
    sled tramp

  12. Rebel Says:

    Dear TheOne,

    I tried to find out this morning. I got no news on that. If you find out anything don’t hesitate to share. Good luck.

    your pal,

  13. Damon Says:

    sled tramp

    The windvest is a brand of cut-down windshield, about 12×16″ or thereabouts. Looks like shit in my opinion but, combined with the battered old full face, it got me a very pleasant 30 mile meandering photo shoot around the rural back roads that I wouldn’t otherwise have had. All I gotta do now is get the smell of moth balls out of the full face…

  14. THEONE Says:


  15. sled tramp Says:

    I heard those vest things are for updrafts or something.Like crossing your arm across your chest.That never bothers me but it’s interesting.I got caught in freezing rain last year.Change…your…shorts…freezing…rain.
    About the same exact time I contemplated moving to Miami.Or Cuba, or the friggin’ equator…
    Hopefully, we’ll be back to normal soon.Here in Coastal Orygun, this is very,very rare weather.
    sled tramp

  16. Damon Says:

    sled tramp

    You didn’t move far enough north…a tropical 25 here in the Evergreen State for the windvest test flight…damned if it doesn’t make a difference after all…might get one last decent ride in before the freezing rain hits us tomorrow evening…maybe a burger at the Cougar Bar & Grill…they say there’s no such thing as bad weather, just inappropriate clothing…


  17. Insidelookingout Says:

    I am so happy that the Mongols have won thier Path back…..I can’t wait this all to be over with, DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO JUDGE COOPER????? ……All I know is she went in for surgury……
    FUCK CICCONE!!!! I hope he loses his job……he sure has proven not to worthy of be a Mongol…..or a fuckin atf agent…what a fuckin loser….. I can’t wait to be with people we know again it has been a long 14 months…….

  18. Rebel Says:

    Dear Sled Tramp,

    See, this is one of the ways I can tell you are not John Ciccone. Ciccone would have written, ?????!!

    your pal,

  19. sled tramp Says:

    sled tramp

  20. DocB Says:

    Dear Mikonos

    I don’t know. This guy is probably full of shit. If you knew what they look like and where they hang out, would you warn the fuckers or just stop by out of the blue, with some help, and explain to them why you just almost kicked them to death?
    I mean like I feel his frustration but I don’t think he has a clue about retribution. Hope he doesn’t get shot.


  21. Mikonos Says:

    As I ride both motorcycles and bicycles I follow the BikesnobNYC Blog. The following was posted as a clip from Craigslist LA. Thought readers of this blog might get a kick out of the tough talk in the “Outlaw (Bi)Cycling World”. Style looks a lot like T-Bag, no? Maybe he’s traded the big twin for a Schwinn? BTW, a “fixed gear” is sort of the equivalent of a rigid with a jockey shift.

    “Alright you [email protected]#king [email protected]#T, or [email protected]#ts since there were two of you. You think you can go and steal whatever you want with no reprocusions? well you are wrong. You and all your piece of shit hipster bike gang wannabe friends will bear the brunt of my frustration. You stole my red deep v rims from in front of Body bar spa on sunset. Well numb nuts we have cameras and I know what you look like and where you hang out. I’m not interested in going to the police, I’m not interested in retrieving my rims as I will have new ones soon. My only interest is removing your teeth with my bike lock and cutting your faces cheek to cheek. Your life isn’t worth shit to me and I will cut through all your friends to get to you!!! I WILL FIND YOU!!!!! I WILL AND WHEN I DO YOU WILL WISH YOU NEVER HEARD OF A FIXED GEAR BIKE. AND YOU WILL WISH YOUR WORTHLESS MOTHERS TAUGHT YOU NOT TO STEAL. So since you will only have your teeth for the next week or so I suggest you eat everything you can because I’m coming for you and I’m taking your [email protected]#KING TEETH WITH ME!!!!!!!!!!”

  22. DocB Says:

    sled twamp

    his widdle wegs only weach the gwond when he wides a widdle bike
    …………..and only in verry nice weather


  23. sled tramp Says:

    Just returned from riding.Wanted to clarify something….it’s a balmy 10 degrees but it’s a clear,brilliant sunshine,dry 10 degrees.The ponds and creeks are frozen but it looks like summer, sky wise.It just happens to be incredible cold.I was once told that the Anchorage,AK Harley dealer sold more bikes than anyone else.We’re not getting any dew or moisture.Just cold.My problem is I can’t stand being off my sled.Kicking back on my seat,arms up,just feelin’ the blending, I need to ride.Due to some injuries, it’s a pain to use a truck clutch so ironically, the one thing that caused my injuries is also the one thing that doesn’t hurt to go anywhere.
    I doubt if CICCONE has ever been on a bike.(Keeping with the thread here….) much less only in 73 degrees.If he had,I doubt his widdle wegs would touch the street.
    sled tramp

  24. sled tramp Says:

    Just pokin’….no seriousness.
    DocB: Was in Troy, Ohio for 10 months against my will.Troy,Ohio is where very bad people go when they die….through non scientific experimentation, I learned that I could drive forward and sideways at the same time in an Ohio winter.Combined with all the piss that suddenly appeared on the ice, it was always interesting.I’ll do something about the email.
    Nawwww…..I’m sure-VERY sure-you’re just fine……:-)
    Rebel,RE: the 8th,If I understand correctly, from a previous employment of yours, you have a working knowledge of a four fingered recon choke.Please apply with attitude.
    sled tramp

  25. DocB Says:

    sled tramp
    Good luck to your nephew, that’s a hell of a trip.

    Up here in Diddlemysister KY,I don’t usually ride much when it’s in the teens. I just pussy out and call in sick. Like to talk more about cold weather but I just realized how far we’ve gotten off topic.
    Cicone probably doesn’t even ride at anything under 72 or over 78 degrees. If I had your email I might send you something.

    fridgidly yours

  26. Anonymous Says:

    Sled Tramp-
    I have posted on here several times before, but I normally just read. I was only asking because I noticed in an earlier post you said you had a lot to do this weekend. I was at a Toy Run in Albany, so I thought maybe you came out.

    Rebel has my email address and has my permission to pass it on to you if you would like to hit me up on a non public forum.

    Stay Warm

  27. Rebel Says:

    Dear Sled Tramp,

    Let me assure you, this anonymous is 100 percent pork free.

    your pal,

  28. Bud Says:

    hahaha thats funny! Only thing better would be when they ask you where you goin? and you tell them “your house” lol

  29. sled tramp Says:

    “I’m a Republican”. LMAO…THAT’s funny…
    Back home,I never wore gloves for years.If it got cold, I used welding gloves which had insulation.Up here in Marriedmysister,OR, dat don’t work.I might try those electric things.Prefer to think my manly self will do OK without but….By 25 miles today in 13 degrees I’m telling you,my California ass was freezin’.Spent the rest of the trip thinking about solutions to the problem.It’s my own fault,every year I do this,every year I freeze.Travel light,freeze at night.
    Speaking of equipment…My nephew is riding a used dirt bike from San Francisco to Cape Horn.With his girlfriend,gear and his 6’6″ body on it, and the previous owner having put 9k on the same tube riding to Alaska and back,they just now had a flat in Buenos Aires.12k into their trip.I gotta get a tire like that.Wouldn’t be impressive but most of the time there’s no roads.

  30. DocB Says:

    Same thing hapened to me a couple years ago. They stoped me ’cause my tag had snow on it. He asked what “GANG” I belonged to and I told him “I’m a Republican”
    It went down hill from there.

    Sled tramp
    We put a couple of hundred down on back roads yestaeday. It was in the high 20’s and low 30’s. Thought about some of your recent comments about the weather. One of the guys showed up with heated liners about eight years ago. We all thought it was kinda yuppie at the time but it caught on and those of us that ride all year have started using them.
    be safe


  31. sled tramp Says:

    I’m curious,one of my brothers was at a toy run up north this last weekend and noted a group of public minded citizens taking pictures of all the bikers.He took some of them.I haven’t noted your nom de plume here before-not that you have an unusual name of course-but if that was you, at least I know what ya look like.It was probably someone else though…:-)
    sled tramp
    The Selfish One,
    It was 13 degrees on my sled this morning.Any room in El Lay? GEEEEZZZZ…..My nuts sound like a friggin’ chandelier…

  32. troyez Says:

    I’ve got a friend who’s a cop in central NY (let’s call him Séamus) who is very similar to the Gang Task Force guy you mentioned. He takes the cop mantra “to protect and serve” seriously, and his method of policing his town is all about keeping the peace. He uses common sense and his words (not bullets) to defuse tense situations, and only makes arrests when all other means of persuasion have been exhausted; he wants everybody to be able to go home at the end of the night. He thinks of himself as just another guy, nobody special, and has no axe to grind as a cop.
    He was my roommate for over a year at 25th Infantry Division – 125th Military Intelligence Bn. – Army, and served as a counterintelligence agent in several real-world missions (Bosnia, Iraq, Afghanistan), so like I said, he has nothing to prove in his civilian cop-life. Shoot, he even had a higher federal security clearance than our buddy “Chick-one!” (so did I)
    I guess some cops turn out the way they do because of the way they came up, same as pretty much all of us (taking for granted the tabula rasa theory).
    All that to say I wish there were more cops like my pal Seamus, we’d have much less hassle and more good will going both ways.

  33. Mikonos Says:

    Rebel, meant in a good way. Stand alone impressive but even more so in contrast to T-Bag or any other “celebrity” ATF agent.

  34. Not Surprised Says:

    The vast majority of state and local Cops get their “intel” from ATF District or seminars. Where I live there is this Gang Task Force guy and he has done his own research. He is always respectful, calls you by first name and he makes an effort.

    Friend of mine got a ticket from a State Trooper while driving his car. Trooper saw the cut on the seat, asked to see it (not handle it just look at it unfolded) He said “I didn’t know you guys drove cars.” True story. He gave my friend a ticket. The Gang Task Force Guy got it squashed.

    Not for one second do I believe this Task Force guy is a “friend” but he comes across as a HUMAN and he gives his card out, ya know? He knows what’s up and he knows his job is just a job and nothing personal.

    He also knows there is little advantage in being an asshole. Somewhere this guy got it that “respect” doesn’t cost anything to give and he knows that there are laws and there are outlaws and if it wasn’t for the outlaws, he wouldn’t HAVE a fucking job.

    Yeah its a ploy in hopes of gathering information when the time is right, but he stays in his place. He knows when a party or a club event is going down and he’ll call to sqaure things up a bit, quash any rumors and so far he has not been caught in a lie yet.

    So at least you know if its your time, its gonna be him and likely as not, he’ll agree not to come to your home but give you fifteen minutes to come down.

    Things like that go a long way. He could easily be the kind of guy that dynamites the clubhouse door, or shoots the dogs.

    Now I’m pretty sure some in law enforcement would call him bad names under their breath. But more than once, tense “situations” have been diffused when less experienced LEO’s gladly honored the request to “get Capt XXX on the fucking phone right now” lol.

    His professionalism would be admirable in any field. He knows the “climate” and he understands shit just has to happen some times but if he catches you, you’re caught. Never met another cop like him.

  35. Rebel Says:

    Dear Not Surprised,

    Kind of you to say. Really, with me, the thing is sometimes I am just stupid and immature. I did not get hurt so much as put in my place. Your Dad sounds like he was an interesting guy.

    your pal,

  36. Rebel Says:

    Dear Mikonos,

    I look self-aware and honest compared to an ATF Agent?

    Do you mean that in a good way or are you damning me with faint praise?

    I think most of these ATF guys are walking around in a fog.

    your pal,

  37. Rebel Says:

    Dear Philo,

    I wish life was that simple. About the worst I might ever be able to do to this guy is make Ciccone into a noun, like quisling or hooker.

    I am pretty sure he does not actually want to have a real, violent fight with me. Of course, you never can tell. Maybe he will force me to defend myself. Maybe circumstances will arise where I will be forced to disembowel him with a steak knife, and then in my confused and temporarily insane state, while he wonders at the tangle of his own intestines, I might throw myself on the floor of the lobby of a four star hotel and begin screaming, “Medic! Medic! Incoming!” I have never actually played that card and a recent court ruling suggests that it still works better than ever.

    your pal,

  38. Rebel Says:

    Dear Special Agent Ciccone,

    Let me look at my calendar. I thought you said we were on for January 7 at 11 am. Sorry about that. My mistake.

    Friday, January 8, 2010 I have a session from 9:30 until 11:30 in the morning titled “Peyote: Cultural Uses and Political Responses in Mexico, Sixteenth through Nineteenth Centuries.” It is in the Hyatt, Meeting Room Edward C on the second floor. You can meet me there at 11:30 or you can wait downstairs if you are shy. Let me urge you to check it out. You might find it interesting. Who knows? I am sure you would not have to pay. I do not doubt that your Gee man badge gets you in anywhere you want to go.

    Sometimes these academic conferences are not nearly as interesting as they sound, so maybe I will decide to duck out early and not inconvenience you at all. Although personally, I do not see how peyote can ever not be interesting.

    There is both a bar and a restaurant on the ground floor if you get bored.

    Really, I will be easy to find. It is the 124th Annual Meeting of the American Historical Association. Do you think you can spot a biker there? Why don’t you wear one of your snazzy windbreakers? The last one of these things I went to, in Washington two years ago, by the third day people were actually stepping out of my way and avoiding eye contact with me. All because I called some fucking sociologist from Holy Cross named Jerry Lembcke “a fucking liar.” And, then I think I made some unfortunate remarks like, “No, why don’t you shut the fuck up bitch.”

    I don’t go every year.

    I would skip the bullet proof vest if I were you.

    Are you gay, by the way? People keep telling me you are gay. I don’t know whether they are just fucking with you or fucking with me. Not that I mind. My attitude toward queers has always been, “More women for me!” But if you are, you might want to check out the “AHA Working Group for Historical Persepctives on Same-Sex Marriage.” You never can tell. You might get lucky and meet somebody. You can thank me later.


  39. Bud Says:

    Sled Tramp,
    What else can you expect from someone who has never received any respect from anyone cus they dont command any respect. These guys you can spot a mile away and you know that right before they get out of their squad car they look in the rear view mirror at themselves and give it their best Deniro impression “you talkin to me?” and feel all puffed up like a banty rooster goin to the hen house.
    But what really pisses them off, is after its all over with I always tell the cop, no matter what the situation,”have a good night and stay safe”. If looks could kill Id be dead a thousand times over just for that!

  40. Grumbler Says:

    A small town Police Chief in North Carolina pulled a biker over for doing 52 in a 45 this past Sunday.

    He then proceeded to tell the biker that he didn’t want any meth dealing MC gangs in his town. To which the biker asked why he was telling him this. HE said ” You’re a full patch member of some gang. I just don’t recognize the patch.”

    With a blank look for a few seconds recognition dawned and the biker laughed and turned his back to the Chief. After about ten seconds the Chief muttered ‘shit’ under his breath.

    The biker was wearing a jacket he had purchased 14 years ago while in TX. It’s black leather with the ‘Hard Rock Cafe’ logo, above the logo it has their slogan ‘save the planet’ and below the location ‘Houston’ where he bought it.

    Bet the Chief used to be a fed. ;)

  41. JAMES Says:

    Sounds like the FED BOY is mad about it!

  42. sled tramp Says:

    I know there was one in Medford as friends went to it.One in Salem with ABATE, but Albany…musta missed that one on the wall.Maybe we should start going to those things to meet folks.We kinda debate those and usually just go for a run by ourselves.
    One of my sons had to break up a fight with his Pits last night and put one down today.I stuck around to be there between chores.They got loose and there one bag of food so…
    I grew up in Oakland,CA and I miss the weather big time.Stay warm….
    sled tramp

  43. sled tramp Says:

    Nope,chopping wood and slavin’ for the boss.Attended a nice evening shindig which I KINDA remember seeing through frozen lids…Apparently, you’re in Orygun.Are you as looking forward to tomorrow’s “Feels like 12” degrees in the morning as I is? My leathers are gonna suck.
    Also, and I’m probably going to get flack for this, but I rarely go to toy runs or public events like the festival in Florence etc..
    I just drop off a toy or cans etc somewhere I know they’ll get it.I’d rather ride than park in a crowd.
    If you ever see a big dashingly debonair hairy guy on a flat black TC with a cane tied on,flying down I-5, me a shout.

  44. Anonymous Says:

    Sled Tramp-
    Did you make it out to the toy run in Albany this weekend?

  45. Insidelookingout Says:

    On another Foot…..I was really hoping maybe you can tell me what happened yo judge Cooper??

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