Are The Mongols Screwed

Mon, Jun 1, 2009

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Are The Mongols Screwed

In a previous incarnation John Ciccone may have conquered Europe. This time around, he appears to be sharpening his blind hatred of motorcycle clubs.

Ciccone is a dark-haired, compact man who probably owns a set of weights. His few enemies describe him as five feet, four inches tall. His many friends claim he is actually a full five-seven. And, as is the case with the all the most troublesome cops, everybody-outlaws, judges, gangsta rappers, lawyers, other cops, everybody-loves this guy.

When he got out of college, it has been written, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) was the only prospective employer who would hire Ciccone. He has since seemed driven to prove that they did not make a mistake. He has supervised three investigations of motorcycle clubs, been integral to a fourth and been associated with several others. And, these investigations always start the same way-with a confidential informant.


A botched, slapstick investigation of the Hollywood Vagos began after Ciccone sweet-talked a disgruntled prospect. The prospect introduced a hang around. Then the prospect died. His brothers soon discovered that the prospect’s bike was registered to the ATF and much exciting hilarity ensued. But, Ciccone learned from his mistakes.

Next Ciccone convinced two associates, a man and a woman, to introduce an ardent motorcyclist named Billy “Slow Brain” St. John to certain members of the Mongols. Slow Brain hung around, prospected, ate his shit and patched before he was revealed to be not merely an ATF Agent, but also a former SWAT Team partner of Ciccone’s. Slow Brain’s real name was William Queen. It was not a perfect investigation but Ciccone learned.

Next Ciccone hypnotized a Hells Angel with a guilty conscience into cooperating with the government. The conversation has been reported to have begun with Ciccone asking, “So how come the Mongols are kicking the Angels’ asses.” Then sparks flew and they kissed and they became domestic partners. Or, something like that. The fallen Angel was named Michael Kramer and the resulting investigation led to a government infiltration of the Angels in Arizona by another federal employee named Jay Anthony “Bird” Dobyns. Frequent, diligent visitors to this page have heard of Jay. Ciccone did not supervise this investigation but he watched and he learned.

In 2003, Ciccone was also involved in the investigation of the Washington Nomads charter of the Hells Angels Motorcycle Club.

Mail Fraud

Then, in June, 2005 a patched member of the Mongols’ Camarillo chapter found himself charged with the federal crime of mail fraud. By chance, he happened to run into Ciccone in the hall or something like that. Words were exchanged and sparks flew. Next thing, not only was the Mongol out of jail but he had a new, glamorous, part-time job in the exciting field of confidential informing. Bingo!

Probably, we can conclude that Ciccone is already through the toughest part of the learning curve.

From February, 2006 through February, 2008 the Sergeant-at-Arms of the Cypress Park Chapter of the Mongols Motorcycle Club was a paid ATF informant. During the first half of 2008 the Secretary/Treasurer and the Vice President of the Cypress Park Chapter were both ATF undercover Agents. During the second half of 2008, these same positions were held by a different undercover agent and a paid informant.

Another ATF undercover Agent was allowed to patch into the Mongols’ Henderson, Nevada Chapter without prospecting. During the investigation, the Sergeant-at-Arms of the Las Vegas chapter was working for the ATF. Also, the Sergeant-at-Arms of the San Diego East County chapter was a paid informant.

But Wait There’s More

During the investigation, one hang around was a paid informant and another was a Montebello, California police officer. The Sergeant-at-Arms of the Carson City, Nevada chapter was a paid informant. And, at the time the indictment against the club was unsealed last October, the same paid informant was President of the Nevada Central (Reno) chapter. The same informant was also appointed World chapter Sergeant-at-Arms.

Both the paid informants and the covert agents made “audio and, at times, video recordings of Mongols members” at chapter meetings, All Members Meetings, officers meetings, during runs and also of “individual conversations with various other Mongols members and associates.”

Because, according to an official ATF statement, “the Mongols are different from many other criminal enterprises in that they keep extensive written documentation of their rules and activities” investigators were able to seize most of these records last October.

The Mongols choice of cell provider was Nextel, the government knew it, and virtually every conversation between chapters for years was intercepted and recorded.

Many Dead Trees

So far more than 4,000 items of evidence have been discovered including “recordings of numerous Mongols meetings;” “internal documents generated and maintained by the Mongols;” “telephone conversations intercepted pursuant to Title III wire taps;” “call sheets summarizing the conversations captured in additional intercepted telephone conversations;” and, more than “600 reports of investigation (ROI) generated by ATF agents.”

The present case, which is bad enough, is described by lawyers as “complex.” The public documents pertinent to the case fill about a cubic foot, about half a copier paper case box. The docket summary of the case is about 220 printed pages.

The government investigation of the Mongols is ongoing and top secret. Twenty-two defendants have entered into sealed plea and sentencing agreements with the Justice Department. Thirty-four defendants, including currently incarcerated Mongols President Hector “Largo” Gonzalez, have sued to have the plea deals made public. The judge in the case, Florence-Marie Cooper refused to do that last week but promised that she would not let the government do it anymore. The things some defendants have said to get out of jail has led to a series of regrettable developments for some other defendants.

People Talking

For example, Thomas “Danger” Savala. Savala, 29, was identified during the course of the ATF investigation as a distributor of methamphetamine. He was indicted in October with 78 other defendants, arrested November 5th, arraigned November 10th and denied bail.

On May 14th Defendant Savala found himself accused of an “April 8, 2007 shooting” and “the November, 2007 murder of two City Terrace gang members whose bodies were set ablaze in the desert after being shot.” Late last week Judge Cooper that Savala’s lawyer could examine censored, partial copies of the statements that had been made to incriminate his client. Savala is not permitted to know the name of his accuser.

Then the judge warned the lawyer that “Prior to trial in this matter, no attorney, investigator, paralegal or other member of the defense team, as well as the defendant, shall knowingly disclose, directly or indirectly to any individual not involved in the representation of defendant Savala, the contents of the redacted statements.”

Who Is Talking

Looking at the case from the outside, it is impossible to tell who is cooperating with the prosecution and who is not.

The thirty-four defendants who want the pleas unsealed are not cooperating. Two other defendants who have filed separate motions to unseal are also not cooperating. One defendant who has died in jail is telling not tails. Another defendant seems to have suffered a mental breakdown so anything he said would not be admissible. Several defendants have filed motions to reunite with their club brothers in jail and it seems unlikely that they are cooperating. A few defendants have made bail. Since they are unprotected it is doubtful that any of them are cooperating.

That still leaves more than 30 defendants who may have already entered a plea. Of the 22 who have entered pleas, it is quite plausible that two-thirds of them are not really cooperating but only trying to get all of this over with as soon as possible. So that leaves a very plausible seven cooperating witnesses.

Who Knows

And everything you have read so far is a gross oversimplification of the case. Besides the defendants who were indicted in October, legally obtained records indicate that there are at least 65 more, named, unindicted co-conspirators. And, this is a conspiracy case.

Then, on top of that, at least six members of the Mongols Motorcycle Club have been incarcerated on separate charges since last October. Two of those patch holders are charged with murder.

So, who knows who is talking? Probably hundreds of people know.

On the one hand the Mongols case the most secret trial north of Guantanamo. On the other hand the case has more leaks than an old boat. This is an ongoing investigation that is still being carried out by the ATF, the Montebello Police Department, the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department, the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, the Riverside County Sheriff’s Department and the San Bernardino County Sheriff’s Department.

No matter how secret the investigation is, somebody still has to investigate it. There are also about a thousand court house and jail employees who have some knowledge of some secret part of the case. And, there are at least seventy-five lawyers and an unknown number of private detectives to fit all the puzzle pieces together into one, big picture.

Officers of the Mongols MC seem to have known last October’s bust was coming six weeks before the Grand Jury did. “On August 26, 2008, at approximately 9:30 pm a group direct connect call was made by Hector Gonzalez in his role as National President of the Mongols…. Gonzalez ordered each Sergeant-at-Arms to contact all members within their respective chapters to advise the members that there should be nothing illegal inside their residences or vehicles (usually meant as a warning that there may be possible law enforcement activity about to occur against the Mongols….) Gonzalez. stated that he received this information from a ‘tip’ and to “read between the lines of what he is saying.”

Something’s Happening Here

The documents in this case are like the leaves in a forest in autumn. Unless you know how to look, they hide more than they reveal.

Seven months ago the Government of the United States said it intended to prove that the Mongols Motorcycle Club was a racketeering enterprise. The government also alleged that the Mongols patch was an integral part of that racketeering enterprise and so the government was going to seize that.

There now seems to be little doubt that the government can prove that in at least some instances individual members of the Mongols MC were sharing profits from drug sales with the mother chapter of the club. The government also seems to remain confidant that it can prove that the Mongols mother chapter then took part of that money and paid it to the so-called Mexican Mafia (if such a group actually exists) to try to buy peace with them.

The Patch

Motorcyclists and civil libertarians have been most exercised about the Justice Department’s confiscation of the Mongols patch. Most citizens are offended by civil forfeiture laws in general. The confiscation of the patch also raises issues about what symbols a free people will be allowed by a powerful government to display. What goes next? The Confederate Flag? The American Flag? The Christian Cross?

Even the very respectfully regarded, Hells Angels grey back George Christie joined the discussion. “This has now gone beyond the bounds of career-hungry servants of the public,” Christie said. “This is an attack on the very fabric … the Constitution was written on.”

But, if the racketeering charge sticks the patch will belong to the Feds. From the very beginning, the government has said that the patch is an “indicia,” a trademark, for an inherently criminal enterprise. “The Mongols frequently exhibit their membership or association with the gang by wearing gang vests, shirts, hats, jewelry, and tattoos displaying the identified images of the Mongols gang,” Ciccone wrote last year. “The most prominent image is that of a Mongol motorcycle rider, or a human head with a queue, facial hair and sunglasses.”

What Next

For all practical purposes, the government has already won its case. And yet, the investigation continues. Why? What is going on?

Well, in the first place, John Ciccone is clearly not one of those standard-issue, government dunderheads who makes a plan and sticks to it. When Ciccone started investigating motorcycle clubs he was apparently told by one of those dunderheads that his results did not justify his efforts. Probably, just guessing here, in the same way that some coach, on some team, some where once told little John that he was too small to even try out.

Now Ciccone is large and in charge and the Mongols case is growing like a cancer. The Mongols are already screwed.

The Mongols’ trial, for whoever will be left to be tried, is scheduled to begin in exactly seven weeks on July 21st. But, don’t count on it. Inevitably, possibly in the next seven weeks, the Department of Justice will issue a superseding indictment. More names will be named. For a full minute or two, armies of militarized police will be shown on one or another television newscast rounding up more sleepy and disheveled men. Some of the men will look defiant and some will look ashamed. Some will cooperate and some will fight.

Chances are, John Ciccone already knows their names.

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58 Comments For This Post

  1. FatBobber Says:

    Never underestimate the power of a hobbit I guess.

    If Billy Queen had trouble keeping his feet on the ground, I imagine Johnny would need a booster seat and bricks on his feet to ride a WideGlide.

  2. Joseph S Says:

    All this is nothing new,we will see if the D.A. can follow up and prosicute people. Bill Queen hurt the Mongols,but the survived and we are still talking about them.

  3. Rebel Says:

    Dear Joseph–

    All due respect but this is very new. So far, the “DA”, actually he is a U.S. Attorney, has a 30 percent conviction rate on this case and it is still more than six weeks from going to trial. And, that is the least of it. The least. What is happening now, in camera and in sealed deals, has never happened before. Never. This is the perfect shit storm. If I was somebody who had shared confidences or done business with anybody in the Mongols MC in the last four years I would be in the wind right now. All due respect to the Mongols. No offense intended. Just friendly advice.

    your pal,

  4. Joseph S Says:

    Dear Rebel-
    Hope you are right, you type with a lot of confidence. I would hate to see the work of everybody (including the undercover ATF agents) go to waste. From what I know the Jay Dobbs case fielded little results after a huge sting with the Arizona HA’s. Good to talk to ya, you seem to know your stuff.

    Keep in touch,
    Joseph S

  5. Rebel Says:

    Dear Joseph–

    No offense meant to anybody, okay. But the Mongols, after Roger Pinney got stabbed, after Laughlin, were not exactly the Hells Angels. Right? Nor were they the Bandidos, Outlaws, Pagans, Sons of Silence, Vagos, Warlocks, Gypsy Jokers, Highwaymen or Galloping Goose. Or any of about forty other clubs I could name. Life is hard but it is harder when you are stupid. Very many Mongols behaved stupidly. Now the ship is sinking and many of them seem to be scrambling to save themselves. Another one flipped just yesterday. This is almost painful to watch. This is embarrassing to watch. The consequences of this stupidity might end up being painful for a lot of people.

    The trial was just delayed until Thanksgiving. There has to be a grand jury. There has to be a superseding indictment on the way.

    your pal,

  6. Joseph S Says:

    Dear Rebel,

    Once again, I hope you are right. You have a stronger faith in the legal system than I do. This is all very fascinating to me. I am sure we will speaking again over this. Just out of curiosity,what site do you get your news from???? I would like to be as up to date as you are.

    Your pal,
    Joseph S

  7. Rebel Says:

    Dear Joseph S,

    Oh man. Are you a fucking cop? Trying to find out how the reporter knows what he knows? You are a cop, aren’t you Joseph? Geez! I must be getting old and soft.

    Joseph, I know what I know because I have almost average intelligence and I work at it. I work stories. I have been working this story for nine months. That is long enough that all the little pieces are starting to make a picture. I do not get news on this case from “a site.” I am of this biker subculture and I am sympathetic to it. I know the politics. I also know how the ATF works.

    I have also been paid to be a reporter. Okay? I am not good, anyone will tell you, but I am a minimally competent journalist. I can go cover the school board meeting. I can work cops. I have also,in fact, covered the President’s speech. I became a reporter when the press was still the “working press” not the “professional press.” I got hired by mistake. I applied for a job on a loading dock.

    On the Mongols case I know more than I have documentary evidence to prove but I am not going to hang guys out to dry. It is pretty obvious who flipped, how the DOJ got them to flip and in what order. It is also pretty obvious, if you bother to look, who is talking who is not even named in the indictment and why they are talking. This is not rocket science. This is cops and bikers and I pay attention to details. That is all.

    Let me also just say this, okay, in case your last name is Harden, Torres or Ciccone: I have broken no laws. No laws that there is probable cause to suspect I broke anyway. I do not even get traffic tickets. I am clean as a fucking whistle. I am living in the mother fucking USA and I can say anything I want to say.

    If you are a cop and you would like to talk off the record email me. I protect sources. I never give anything up that the cops do not already know. I never name names unless everybody already knows. I never play dirty and give out personal information about cops.

    Have a nice day,

  8. Joseph S Says:

    Dear Rebel,
    I think I see a long and interesting relationship between us. I am just your average joe with a computer. I do find your in-depth knowledge of this subject very impressive. Your probably a better journalist than you give yourself credit for in your above statement. I am sure we will talk again.

    Your friend,
    Joseph S

  9. Joseph S Says:

    Dear Rebel,
    Hope I didnt piss you off,didn’y mean too. I really like your site. Good stuff.

    Joseph S

  10. Rebel Says:


    No problem


  11. FatBobber Says:

    very entertaining – LMFAO

    The article was a good read too. Thanks once again.

  12. FatBobber Says:


  13. Sohn Says:

    Reading Doc’s book one can see why this downfall has transpired and also see how the Mongols were understandably conned. By his own admition their numbers had dwindled down to a small bottle neck of very few members, an easier target for him, when he came around with his snake oil for what ailed them. It’s also plain to see how it was a rouse for his own financial gain and ego boost. He was an obvious snake oil salesman (hindsight is 20/20) and Agent Ciccone saw it too. Doc is a cop’s wet dream, a gready loud mouthed moron that thought he could outsmart everyone. As proof, in his book and on “Gangland” he gave up crimes that his members committed just to make himself appear to be a force to be reconed with. I guarantee you that they would have worked that case a lot longer if he was not kicked out ( you can fool some of the people some of the time but you can’t fool everyone). The timing was perfect for the ATF, they had Doc trapped. There wasn’t a rock he could slither under- Mexican Mafia, Mongols and prison constricting his neck like the snake that he is. But, Doc being a snake will be aloud to slither his way out by Agent Ciccone. So, he can rot the body of the Mongols from the one time head down.
    I’ve dealt with agent Ciccone ( I’m one of the ones that would call him 5’4″ or maybe even 5’2″)and he’s a lot like Doc in that he’s arrogant and greedy(his greed being the coin of fame and power). But unlike Doc, he’s patient, methodical and a lot more intelligent. And after this, I’m sure he will be the one law enforcement agent who will honestly be able to say that he brought down a major outlaw motorcycle [gang]. The way he’ll do this is that (I’m under the impression but am not completely sure) Doc holds the trademark and goodwill for the Mongols MC and said Doc IS A GOVERNMENT RAT(conjecture from his ratty, two faced, lying nature)
    I’ve also learned from first hand experience and second hand accounts that when the police infiltrate a group that they have targeted they first try to entrap the members into committing crimes – which I’m sure they did in this case as well- and secondly try to get members to boast about past crimes -which are almost always exaggerated( after all, it’s their story and they can tell it the way they want.). But thirdly, they also use the groups street credibility to ensnare people outside of the targeted group, which was done separately in the Northern Nevada aspect of this case (dubbed “Operation Domino” because they’re still getting people to roll) but not in the south or “Black Rain” indictment. It would be a good guess that they did this because they had to move quickly, knowing full well that Doc was in a pickle and it was time to pounce and that with Doc they could get a big chunk of the rest of the indicted (which are gangbanger wannabes and not bikers) to roll. Which is obviously happening now.
    Unfortunately, this is far from over for not only Mongols but also anyone that had any dealings with these rats. And that’s where the superseding indictments are going to start. They’re going to have the unnamed co-conspirators, people that were unfortunate enough to be on an ATF hit list that a rat knew. People on a hit list in other clubs that Doc may have called or talked to (and he’ll be taught how to testilie about the conversation in criminal proceedings and court.).
    It’s a travesty really, the amount of harm Doc’s folly is going to reap on not only the Mongols who are real bikers and motorcycle enthusiast, but also the clubs and bikers not even affiliated with Mongols and or Doc. After all, it’s in law enforcements best interest to vilify said groups because that’s where their money is.

  14. Rebel Says:

    Dear Sohn,

    It is nice to hear from you, Sohn. I know who you are, I know you are informed and I appreciate you reading and commenting.

    I think you are right about the de facto entrapment. I think all four of the undercovers and four of the six cooperators were club officers at one time or another during the investigation. Sick, isn’t it?

    The way the Department of Justice is going to get the Mongols patch is by proving that the patch itself was integral to furthering intimidation on behalf of the criminal conspiracy. Language to that effect already seems to be a standard part of all the plea deals as is language that states that there actually was a criminal conspiracy.

    If you look worldwide you can see the strategy that is emerging to try to destroy established motorcycle clubs. In Australia they are, in effect, trying to make wearing a patch illegal. That is what the DOJ is trying to get precedent for here with the Mongols. Up in Canada right now, they are trying to prove that the Bandidos are a hierarchally structured criminal organization which is what is probably going to make the RICO case stick against the Mongols.

    But I think the Mongols are still a special case in the United States. You know, whom the gods would destroy they first would make king? Well, the gods made Doc Cavazos king. But, most clubs would not make Cavazos president and we are still the USA. So, I suspect that where the Mongols case is going is outside the world of motorcycle clubs and into the larger world of recreational drug distribution.

    your pal,

  15. BreakingPoint Says:

    HOLY SHIT!!!!
    The day any of you fucks start taking peoples patches, is crazy!
    I am not a fan of the mongols or any of the shit they pull, however, taking there patch is a hit on all of us who where patches.
    I mean, come on, how many fucked up cops are out there, are we pulling there badge?
    By the way, REBEL, thanks for confirming you are a COP, for another site, pretty dumb, how you just got caught, you social pig!

  16. rich Says:


  17. FatBobber Says:

    So, a cop knows all this shit, but a biker that has been in this place for umpteen years wouldn’t? Rebel is a reporter who also happens to be a lifetime biker. He’s never been biased, He’s edited many of my posts that I can, in retrospect, see were inflammatory to certain clubs. The guy is giving us information we hear rumors about while having a beer at any biker hangout you can drop into in Cali. He has inside information, do you want him to reveal those sources? He’d be a rat bigger than any that have fallen. he’s no rat – he’s no cop. Jeeezus-H-tap-dancing christ – he’s a biker in the know. Be thankful he’s willing to share the information. I don’t think anyone could be mad at rebel and I think a lot of people are thankful for his “heads-up” information. If you’re in Cali and you know what’s happening because he has the balls to tell the truth, well, then you would thank him.

  18. BreakingPoint Says:

    It’s not just CALI, I speak of, it’s AZ as well.
    Call me paraniod, but just because the site is called agingrebel, does not mean the person speaking (Rebel) is not a informant. I personally, would rather take the chance and shut my mouth then ever drop a dot, so later people can play connect four.

  19. FatBobber Says:

    Nothing wrong with a little healthy paranoia, brotha. I’d be worm food by now without it. Everyone needs to be on their game these days. There’s more people on the fed list than realize. I get the 15 minute traffic stop in my cage these days for nothing – I just keep my hands in clear view when I’m getting the standard shakedown for nothing.

  20. Rebel is No Cop Says:

    His grammar and spelling are too good, his writing too fluid.

    That this indictment of the Mongols is very different than nay other is an understaement. Despite the forfeiture of their patch, for the first time a 1% club is also facing Federal hate crime charges. This is some serious shit.

    Under the RICO sub statue of forfeiture and assets seizure, the Mongol’s logo, which is trademarked, can and likely will be revoked by the US Gov’t agency that registers such stuff, and the Federal Goverment in effect will then own the copyright. One of the reasons is that Doc’s book features and uses both the name Mongols. All royalties from the book, from support gear sales will be attached and treated as if they were property or proceeds from an illegal enterprise.

    Now, ONLY certain persons actually named in the restraining order cannot wear the Mongols patch. Obviously, those named in the indictment, their relatives, associates and business agents cannot sell, wear, or in any way generate money. Let’s be specific, nowhere does the order say every Mongol caught wearing his patch is affected.

    This is the brainchild of very slick DOJ attorneys. One would do well to recall that after many years, Al Capone met his fate at the hand of tax accountants. Will this be the end of the Mongols? No.

    But it is a odds on bet that the majority of the defedants named WILL plea bargain. A RICO charge is very, very expensive to defend, and well, most facing a RICO are already screwed with seizure of all assets and at the mercy of a court appointed attorney. John Gotti, Jr. is a prime example.

    Doc is done. There is simply no question about that. Fully aware of the allegations that Doc stole money from the club, every plea deal with lesser Mongols begins with:

    “You gonna be loyal to that fuck?”

    Hard to argue. Unlike previous Federal prosecutions, there are so many different approaches that it seems all but impossible for the Feds not to prevail. I take no personal joy in saying this, but I do believe it.

    This past month, numerous allegations of violence against civilians at a certain California bar, have culminated with the indictment of an alleged Mongol for sucker punching a patron in the back of the head causing his death from brain bleeding.

    Like it or not, the Mongols have become this year’s poster children for domestic terrorism. Doc can be compared to Tony Montana in his meteoric rise and fall; his 15 minutes.

  21. Rebel Says:

    Breaking Point,

    Oh I get it now. You are a happy, happy sober rider. Or a Phoenix homicide cop. Which one, pal? Is this that fucking Wolf or is this that moron Matt Verthein? How is your police career going Matt? Met the SWAT Team yet Wolf?

    Stop pulling my dick.


  22. JAMES Says:


  23. BreakingPoint Says:

    Dont take this and spin it all up, no need for that. If your not, your not. If you are you are.
    This is just what I think because I have to admit, you know a lot on both sides. Now either you are a good reporter, or just a guy typing as Rebel, to pass on what you know. What I think does not matter In the big picture. TIC TOCK TIC TOCK

    James: I think it is safe to say, regardless our GOV is fucked. It’s like the saying goes, ” the kid with the most toys wins”. I’m sure this guy that is now on probation, might have been being watched already. Yes, he had a gun, but when he was pulled over, maybe the cops thought they had more, and when it turned up they were wrong, they had to seetle. I get rolled, about every 2 weeks, and i cant tell you how many fix it tickets I’ve gotten for my bike. It appears someone is always the pressing eye In matters. With there case, I’m sure they are going to pay off judges and whatever it takes to get what they want. Now if the mongols have more money then the GOV I’m sure they would fine, but In this case again, they win. It’s sad really, but this is the crap we all voted for, now we get to sit in the shit, and seperate the corn!

  24. Rebel Says:

    Dear Breaking Point,

    First, peanut butter crank is shit. And, it is still out there. As far as I know it is just not being made by Mongols. Who actually never made any in the first place.

    Secondly, you do know that I know where you are writing from, right? And, I sort of suspect that you are totally full of shit. But then, you might be somebody interesting who is stashed on a military base. I suspect a whole shit load about the Mongols case that I am not saying, okay? So you may be interesting. Or, you just may be clever. Or a moron. Whatever.

    But, I would still not get all up in my fucking grill if I were you. And, in the spirit of brotherhood and amity I am going to tell you one small personal anecdote which may or may not illustrate for you my opinion of the police.

    For many, many years I played cops and robbers. I picked up my first charge when I was 13 and I laughed at the cop because I was stupid. I was so ignorant. I learned not to be stupid. And, I often sort of thought of cops as just being stupid pricks but everybody knew the rules. Right? Like lay off your kids.

    About seven years ago, a very fine, good citizen informed the authorities that I had something bad in my house so about fourteen cops show up at my door. In their haste, they had neglected to obtain a warrant.

    And, I will just skip past the part about how the neighbors look at you when four cruisers and an official van block the street in front of your house and so on. They had dogs. It was a circus. Neighbors came out and looked. Perhaps you have also seen this.

    Anyway, I would not let these pricks in and they vowed to return with a warrant and I said, “Well, if you can talk a judge into it. Fatso.” The biggest, meanest pig said my house would be surveilled so not to try to move anything. Raise your hand if this is your life, too.

    Well officer Pig lied. All fourteen of them just up and left. Maybe they were confused. And I quickly vacuumed, you know, in case we had guests later, and then I gathered up the vacuum cleaner, or vacuum cleaners, and put them in my car, drove blocks away, left the car unlocked so I could always plausibly say that they weren’t my vacuum cleaners, and then I walked to an elementary school to pick up my little, seven-year-old son.

    Well, where the agents of the law had gone after they left me was to my little boy’s elementary school. They pulled him out of class, in front of all his classmates, and then this one fat, pig, a detective, sweated my little boy for 40 full minutes. And, as it turns out, at seven, my boy did not know anything and he was very polite to the police. Because he is much smarter than I.

    He did not know his Dad’s real name or even what his actual address was and he had never, ever seen anything that looked remotely like the alleged contraband his Dad was allegedly holding. He was not even sure what color my hair was or even if I was in town. Seven years old. He did not know a thing in the most polite and patient way possible. Forty fucking minutes. My little, blonde haired, nice, seven year old boy. Police did this to my child to try to get me. Over, basically, bullshit. Kid never cracked. Kid was all like, “Oh no, officer. I don’t think my daddy would ever do anything like that.”

    Fucking cop was trying to get probable cause for a warrant. By sweating my little boy. My pride and joy. My hopes and dreams. My son.

    Afterward I told my boy I was proud of him, and that I would not put him in that position again and then I bought him ice cream. Absolutely true story. My life. What is your life like?


  25. FatBobber Says:


  26. BreakingPoint Says:

    Rebel,+2 points for you!!
    Of course I know you know where I am. I’m glad you know. It was what I was after. I’m sure you will understand, people are always brewing a pot up, and In turn you never are 100% sure people are who they are. However, I will state, it appears I was wrong about you. I am that guy tucked away In a safe haven that is able to pull the strings for my brothers when needed. As of now , I can see truely you are the Rebel of this post, and not a person posing as such. After reading what you wrote I have to say, I have a new found respect for you. But don’t forget, where I am tucked away, i keep it that way. It allows me to travel where normal eys cant travel and do things normal people cant take care of, which I’m sure you can respect. So, as a man I have to say, sorry for the checking you out, but as I’m sure you can understand we all have to protect ourselves, and In this case I end up with the yoke on my face.
    On another note, feel free to hit me up if you need anything, and I think you know what I mean.

  27. To BreakingPoint Says:

    It is good for a man to admit he may have been wrong. Being wrong usually only means that at least a man is doing SOMETHING in an attempt to affect some sort of change.

    I am wrong 100 hundred times a day, but I am right more than I am wrong.

    In the end, being wrong with a good motive, is better than never having taken a stand in the first place.

    It would seem Rebel too, can move under the cloak of invisibility. Being invisible has it rewards.

    Being reliable and closed-mouthed opens the mouths of others.

    Rebel is an assembler of good information.

    Information comes from many sources.

    Rebel is a good journalist and hsitorian, and not a half bad commentator.

  28. El Gado Says:

    Hello Rebel,

    Despite the decay of the Mongols in the U.S.A, in Europe they are forming new chapters al around (probably with help from Bandidos and Outlaws)
    So as long as atf, interpol and whatever cops are not going international, they are adapting and will survive.
    See for example how the HA situation in The Netherlands has ended.
    Free off all charges !!
    And they’ve locked The Netherlands to all other OMG’s

    Ride on!

  29. Rebel Says:

    Dear Breaking Point,

    Ain’t no thing.

    your pal,

  30. JAMES Says:


  31. Redback Says:

    Sohn, if you’re one tenth as brave as you are disrespectfull and nasty, you’d be doin’ pretty good.

  32. More News Says:

    Police seize more Mongols motorcycle-gang paraphernalia
    Posted: 07/02/2009 11:45:38 AM PDT

    SAN GABRIEL-Police seized Mongols motorcycle-gang paraphernalia Thursday during a Parole Probation Compliance Check of 40 locations in Rosemead and South San Gabriel, officials said.


    Photo Gallery

    More Mongols seizures

    The items bearing the Mongols insignia included shirts, jackets, a clock and beanies.

    They where found in the home of Mauricio Montano in the 8100 block of Blewett Street in San Gabriel, according Sgt. Mark Flores of the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Temple Station.

    Montano is believed to be part of a Pico Rivera chapter of the outlaw Motorcycle gang, officials said. He was taken into custody but not arrested.

    “We will write up a report and start an investigation,” Flores said. “We will hand it over to the Federal Government.”

    A federal judge in October barred the Mongols gang from wearing or distributing its logo. The order came one day after a nationwide federal sweep, which landed 61 Southern California Mongols members in jail for participating in an alleged violent criminal enterprise.

    During Thursday’s operation, police made six arrests. The charges included marijuana cultivation, possession of methamphetamine, possession of drugs and drug paraphernalia and felons in possession of ammunition.

    The operation included about 50 officers.

  33. BreakingPoint Says:

    What a fucking waste of Tax payers money! Still not a fan of this once called MC, but again, what a fucking waste of everyones time for some fucking shirts and shit! Who fucking cares……..

  34. Yenko13 Says:

    Very good reporting Rebel, So far the best I seen on the subject, Thanks for all the updates

  35. onnray Says:

    to redback:
    what has Sohn said that was disrespectful or nasty?

  36. another mouth Says:

    i’m in my late 20’s grew up in whittier i once seen a mongol cruiseing around honestly i seen between 2 to 4 and never in a pack but just recently i went down there to hang out and noticed to homies walking around in the street with all kinds of tats never really payed any attention to homies considering i grew up there but what made me double take and look was the mongol patch tattoo’d on this guys head, MC used to be different from gangs and i believe they still are there is a line between them not just how anyone can get into a gang in 15seconds, and getting in an MC takes alot more then that especially a 1% MC, from the looks of those two guys i seen the mongols might have crossed that line no disrespect intended but cholos’ aren’t bikers the old school cholos’ that still give the respect maybe but these hot headed cholos that slapp there parents around , family, and friends are all about themselves, Mongols was never ment to b a gang and is not one with that cut, MC reps are not punk cholo’s, the new managment banner should go up real soon if they get to keep that cut.


    Trust me there is no homie walking around Whittier with a mongol tat on his head get real !!!!

  38. another mouth Says:

    you might want to check again ANARCHYFACTORY, seen him on Broadway and mills walking down broadway heading torward colima light skinned about 5’8 around 250 pounds, man if thats not a good discription to just go down there and actually look, get real and check, tell him just because he gots the head on there cut tattoo’d on his head doesn’t make him one,


    His gots the head ? his own fuking homies would put him down . get back on your meds . did you stop and say yo homie let me check your tat ? fuking bs

  40. another mouth Says:

    them meds are good, damn good

  41. izapmtb Says:

    this is for officer joseph, billy queen did not mess up anything he was well into it i seen for myself he looked wasted and he was not tired he was doing drugs, not speed he loved old school, in the middle of he so call investigation he wasent even telling the goverment the truth about more crimes if he would of been a good undercover cop more brothers would have been arrested he was so into to it the goverment was forced to pull him out were is billy

  42. sled tramp Says:

    Dear Rebel,
    I’m finally catching up on your older posts while waiting out a monsoon that would strangle an open mouthed frog.
    As I read your lines on your son, I looked over and watched one of mine.The youngest one.You’re a better man than I….there would have been a different end to the day.
    Perhaps that’s why I feel OK about anti swine shots in schools these days…..

  43. ONE BAD MAN Says:

    Doc cavasos is a bitch any Mongol thats snitchin is a discrace to CHAPTER 13 and my uncle is in chapter 13 he died for the club now we will speak of that since you cops want to always talk bad about every one else but yourselfs Its always about what the mongols do or what other clubs do well lets ask who killed my uncle JINGLES MONGOLS MC and REDBEARD MONGOLS MC It was a damn cop on the side of the road that shot them off there bikes It wasnt Hells Angels but you tryed to make It look like It didnt ya The cop came forth years later and admitted biker enforcement did the shit It was taped so the hell with ya So lets talk about the crap cops do Did you kill HITMAN also to make IT look like Hells Angels did it yes you probably did What about PAPA G Hells Angels did you damn cops kill him to make It look like Mongols did It to keep shit going OKAY EVERYONE!!!!!!!! Did a mongol ride all the way to frisco on a motorcycle by himself packin a piece to shoot an HA and ride all that way back home on a bike HELL NO IT DIDNT HAPPEN If you think you no something about Mongols MC you dont no shit I dont care If your a cop reporter this message is the truth for your A s!!!!!!!

  44. ONE BAD MAN Says:

    Moral to the story cops do things wrong like every one else there are bad people in all walks of life dosent matter who you are or what kinda job you have there are bad people in law enforcement and government just like theres people in all clubs not just the mongols that do things wrong answer this have YOU!!!!!!!!!! ever done anything wrong have you ever did anything that Isnt right yes you have everyone has skeletons in the closet judges too nobody is perfect and theres nothing wrong with being in a club just like If you wanted to be or do something else It should be your personal right to do what you want but remember people in glass houses shouldnt throw rocks

  45. ONE BAD MAN Says:

    Further more cavasos Isnt shit and his book is a bunch of crap If you even start to listen to that book your a fool the book Is a bunch of lies and he was tryin to be something hes not.Yes everyone Is correct on the fact of what everyone has said about him Hes a phony

  46. Lawman Says:

    I just wanted to ask you if you like oranges? No, don’t be like wtf. Just say yes or no. It is important lol

  47. Rebel Says:

    Dear Lawman,

    Yeah. I like oranges. And, you were great in Deadwood. Okay?

    your pal,

  48. sled tramp Says:

    Orange makes me think of Harleys and Dutch girls.I ride a Harley and I like to peel and eat Dutch girls.And yes, it IS important.
    (I don’t care what your mom said about you.Yer A-OK….)

  49. bigbuffitalian Says:

    The Mongols are totally bitchen man. They are so rad. I wish my testicles werent so small from all the steroids ive done so i could join the Mongols. Oh well maybe the boy scouts will let me join.

  50. Rebel Says:

    Dear bigbuffitalian,

    Do I know you? Are you a slightly shorter than average, big, buff Italian? Like if I said fongool or vaffanculo, would these words be meaningful to you? I am not Italian myself. I am a redneck. But I have always admired Italian women, cheese, wine, literature, film, oil, olives, ham and especially Italian organization. You know what they say. An englese italianato es en diafalo incarnato.

    Ciao. Il vostra compare,

  51. Wetback Says:

    Billy Queen said that there is a Mongols chapter in Georgia and no other information says that there is, is there still a Mongols chapter in Georgia or was Billy queen lying.

  52. 12fuckyou Says:


    as far as i know there never was but i could be wrong.

  53. Wetback Says:


    I don’t think there is Mongols in the southern United States but for Florida.

  54. swampy Says:


  55. Wetback Says:

    Hey I’ve also heard there were Mongols in Alabama. I don’t know since Alabama has alot of hispanics. Ya never know people love to talk.

  56. jan980 Says:

    Mongols mc disgust me

  57. Wetback Says:

    Good for you jan980

  58. JoJo22 Says:

    Great story rebel!!

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