Trump Versus Harley

June 26, 2018

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Trump Versus Harley

The President of the United States reacted angrily to yesterday’s announcement by Harley-Davidson that the Motor Company intended to manufacture the motorcycles it will sell in Europe overseas.

In an SEC filing, the company said “tariffs on Harley-Davidson motorcycles exported from the U.S. have increased from 6% to 31%. Harley-Davidson expects these tariffs will result in an incremental cost of approximately $2,200 per average motorcycle exported from the U.S. to the EU.

“Harley-Davidson believes the tremendous cost increase, if passed onto its dealers and retail customers, would have an immediate and lasting detrimental impact to its business in the region, reducing customer access to Harley-Davidson products and negatively impacting the sustainability of its dealers’ businesses. Therefore, Harley-Davidson will not raise its manufacturer’s suggested retail prices or wholesale prices to its dealers to cover the costs of the retaliatory tariffs. In the near-term, the company will bear the significant impact resulting from these tariffs, and the company estimates the incremental cost for the remainder of 2018 to be approximately $30 to $45 million. On a full-year basis, the company estimates the aggregate annual impact due to the EU tariffs to be approximately $90 to $100 million.”

Not everyone agrees with Harley’s assessment. For one thing, the company sells status symbols rather than basic transportation. And for another, those symbols are intended to evoke an America as long ago as tail fins. People who aspire to own a Harley aren’t necessarily deferred from buying one because they are overpriced.

Trump

Among those who disagreed with the company’s decision was Trump. He has tweeted about the move offshore four times since the company made its announcement. Here, in chronological order, is what he had to say.

“Surprised that Harley-Davidson, of all companies, would be the first to wave the White Flag. I fought hard for them and ultimately they will not pay tariffs selling into the E.U., which has hurt us badly on trade, down $151 Billion. Taxes just a Harley excuse – be patient! #MAGA”

“Early this year Harley-Davidson said they would move much of their plant operations in Kansas City to Thailand. That was long before Tariffs were announced. Hence, they were just using Tariffs/Trade War as an excuse. Shows how unbalanced & unfair trade is, but we will fix it.”

“When I had Harley-Davidson officials over to the White House, I chided them about tariffs in other countries, like India, being too high. Companies are now coming back to America. Harley must know that they won’t be able to sell back into U.S. without paying a big tax!”

“A Harley-Davidson should never be built in another country-never! Their employees and customers are already very angry at them. If they move, watch, it will be the beginning of the end – they surrendered, they quit! The Aura will be gone and they will be taxed like never before!”

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85 Responses to “Trump Versus Harley”

  1. jrino Says:

    A word about Thailand manufacturing. quality control is optional labor is poor and if you think they will turn out a better product over there you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Welcome to the board room of Harley Davidson where they don’t know shit about the product they make! Oh wait Try the new Coca Cola!

  2. Muck 1%er Says:

    FF said;
    ” Not a day goes by that I don’t thank The Gods that Trump is the president of the United States of America.”

    AMEN!!!

  3. ASpectatur Says:

    +1 OldSkewl is Dead On.

  4. Filburt Says:

    Off subject but not by much, another Democrat with a gun in Maryland!!!

  5. just tom Says:

    If Harley wants to take production overseas to beat the tariffs,fine that’s business. Now if Harley sells back to the United States,I have a problem with that. If they do,fuck em.

  6. MtPockets Says:

    Moving production overseas for overseas markets is something that many companies do.
    Being that they announced their desire to open a factory in Thailand awhile back, and recently announced the closing of the KC plant, everyone saw the writing on the wall.
    What I dont get is with all of the publicity over their previous actions, do they really think anyone is buying their “it’s Trumps fault” bullshit?
    I dont doubt that it makes sense on paper, but like Sieg and others have pointed out- what looks good to the pencil pushers isnt neccessarily good in reality.
    Myself, I hope they’re here for another hundred. With some of the genuinely stupid decisions they have made over the last decade or so, I’d say thats doubtful.

  7. oldskewl Says:

    @ tiopirata – with all due respect, I disagree. Trump is not a politician although, today he would be considered one. He was a businessman first and foremost and one of the most most successful in the world which is why America voted for him. They were tired of the same old same old.

    Not saying Trump is perfect by any means but he is doing his best and he would know more about the impact of NAFTA and tariffs than most any politician since he paid tariffs to build every facility his company owns, so I’m sure he knows how they work and more importantly how to make money while tariffs are in place.

    HD is making excuses, “they wanna build bikes in Europe for Europe” OK, then do it. Stop with the Japanese forks we’ve been dealing with since AMF. Stop with the Chinese intakes, wiring harnesses, and all the other nonsense.

    To me, all I see is excuses. HD is in business to make money, I get it, but don’t waste profits on building bikes people don’t want and concentrate on getting back to the bikes that paid the bills, the ones that people want.

    I’m sure you don’t want an electric sled, I know I don’t.

    Respectfully,

    Oldskewl.

  8. tiopirata Says:

    @Curbside, +1,
    This is not about HD but about the posturing of a president who has no place in business. It is long past time that political figures be removed from the business sphere, and the corruption this enables, and allow companies to simply compete on an even playing field.
    Capitalism and politics do not, and cannot, mix
    Tio Pirata 1%er

  9. oldskewl Says:

    Gotta love those vids below the article.. “Donald Trump has dealt a nasty blow to Harley Davidson”.. Give me a fucking break. I’m a businessman and I purchase steel everyday, in fact men are outside unloading 44,0000 lbs of steel as I type this.

    I’ve been hit with the same tariffs as HD and yet my profits continue to climb. As those profits climb in this robust economy I’ve given raises, bonuses and implemented profit sharing and better health care. What I haven’t done is steer my company into different directions that don’t fit my business model.

    HD has wasted tens of millions (maybe hundreds of millions) on electric bike technology.. who da fuck wants an electric HD?? Their getting their ass handed to them by Indian on the flat track of all places driving sales of Indians not HD’s.
    They’ve done away with every model bike that people liked including the FXR and the Dyna. Bikes that could be built to keep up with japanese or italian bikes that lean hard and accelerate fast are now gone.

    Its piss poor management that got them into where they are. The latest and greatest idea was to eliminate they aftermarket altogether by voiding warranties on bikes if anything related to powertrain or emissions was changed from something not made my HD.
    So buying a new Thunderheader and upgrading to a set of S&S heads and cams is now out the window if you wanna keep that precious warranty intact.

    80% of the new bikes are hideous and come with problems straight from the factory.
    I get it, you gotta find a way to keep the millennials interested in your product but if those are the people you plan on selling a bike to then forget about the America first analogy. Millenials are globalist and everything against what HD stood for.

    Maybe marketing the street 500 or 750 would have been smarter if you geared it towards Flat Track like the new Indian 1200 coming out. It’s a flat tracker with a headlight. hell, I’d buy one.

    At this point I think they need to dismantle management and a company with American pride should pull a hostile take over. That might keep Americans interested in your product because no matter what the boardroom thinks, whether it be in India or Germany, those buyers are buying the American Dream, not some European made POS.

    Trust me, people in America buy a Mercedes because they think German engineering is superior to America, same reason they buy a Harley in germany, they believe an American motorcycle is superior and gives “status” to the owner.

    Just my 2 cents,

    OS

  10. Penguin Says:

    Sieg’s experience agrees with my own, which moved between the civil service support services at the US Army (essentially a socialist featherbed situation where cost plus is the rule), and on the other hand, construction of machinery and machine facilities in the US in “hard money” contracts. What you pay people is not very closely related to the quality of their work…and the less they get paid the more difficult they are to manage…. Is cheaper to pay top dollar for first class work…

    I recall a gas turbine inspection where the scabs jacked the thrust bearing right through the housing… Saved Money? Not hardly! And most of them lied about both their experience, and their fubars. One little fubar is a million bucks and forget the schedule… Hire the very best and that does not happen.

    Speaking of first class work, and lying: https://antipolygraph.org/read.shtml#ncca-countermeasure-course-files

    Yes, not precisely on topic… Unless you imagine that cops always say the truth, or politicians, or “journalists”…or that the man won’t be asking you to “take one” someday…

    Seems like a matter that might interest y’all…

    Maybe Paladin?

  11. rocco151 Says:

    @curbside+1

    HD is in Europe to sell to European customers who want to “buy local” and to lower their costs via lower labor costs and lower taxes than they would incur by exporting product made in the U.S….the same with their proposed plant in Thailand (announced March 2017) to tap the market in India ! HD is not anti America they are pro-business ! The American market will still be serviced without excess taxes…their overseas markets will be served in the same way…this is a business move not an anti patriotic move ! Employees losing their jobs should be angry with the Trump Administration not the business heads of HD !

  12. Sieg Says:

    Ah, tariffs, and the need to avoid them. The latest thing, right?

    I worked for IH as a machinist on the engine-side. Made flywheels for their diesel car engines, and side-rails for their 25-ton crawlers.

    So IH had roughly a 90% market share in their niche, and could charge whatever they wanted to. Life was good.

    Then the suits running the company decided they could save money by shifting production of car engines to Spain, of all places. They sold lots of engines over there, they actually made ALL of GM’s diesels at the time, so they thought, well, we won’t have to pay to ship them, or pay import fees, dutiage, tariffs, none of that. They moved the machinery from Melrose Park to Spain, bought some new stuff, and set-up the plant. Less than a year later, all the machinery was moved back, and production resumed at Melrose Park. HUGE loss of money moving machines, buying or leasing buildings, all that.

    Why did that happen? Simple…they discovered the Euro “work ethic”.

    When enough people wake up and decide they don’t want to be light tan universal consumers, then maybe we can start taking our respective countries back from the occupiers and rebuilding them in our image, once again.

    FTF/FTP
    TOSIAR

  13. FF Says:

    Arguing politics is pointless, since it is entirely predicated on a false narrative:
    There is always A political party in power,
    there is always An opposition party…
    and there is always an election where we get to make a choice between the two.

    Fools are led to believe that have a choice between two parties, the Communists (democrats) and the Vichy Regime (republicans). Both parties are criminals. One party is an enemy of the tax-paying citizens, who’s constituency is almost exclusively non-productive citizens who contribute nothing or their contributions to “society” “civilization” are negligible; this party engages in identity politics (race, gender, class) and character assassinates ANYONE who doesn’t adhere to it’s ideology as a racist, deplorable, Nazi etc et al. The other party is beholden exclusively to the Chamber of Commerce, who puts on a faux front that they represent conservative values, and who’s power is dependent upon scaring the tax paying public to “vote for us, or the Communist will win”. This is the bullshit narrative I’ve been fed since my birth in 1965, and it’s worked up until Trump came on the political scene. You hate Trump? That’s your prerogative. I love Donald Trump. I believe his election was ordained by Divine Providence. The United States of America was FINISHED had that vicious criminal bitch Hilarity Clinton won the election. The NSA,FBI, CIA, IRS, EPA etc et al were all politicized during the 8 years reign of Boy king, Barry Soetero Hussein Obamugabe. Bath House Barry FUNDEMENTALLY TRANSFORMED the USA in a Stasi State identical to the former East Germany. Yes, Bush started it with the “Patriot Act”, ostensibly and dishonestly written to help fight “terrorism” but instead of going after the obvious and apparent enemy, Islam, it was used as a weapon against American taxpaying citizens– primarily White, Heterosexual, Anglo-Saxon, Male, Christians (baptized and self ex-communicated alike). Not a day goes by that I don’t thank The Gods that Trump is the president of the United States of America.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex0eAv2axuI

  14. Frank Says:

    @anonymous
    Employment is up, true. But The Dow Jones Industrial Average DJIA, -0.17% fell 165.52 points, or 0.7%, to 24,117.59. The blue-chip average closed below its 200-day moving average for a third straight session, a level that is often used a gauge of an asset’s long-term momentum…ie. The worst is yet to come.
    Peace with NK…that’s funny. Just yesterday new satellite images showed them upgrading their nuclear facility. It is nowhere close to peace, but if you believe what the President tells you, you have much bigger issues.

    Trump is pursuing Fascism and if he continues to get support from people like you, America is in real trouble. I’m just sorry that you can’t see it.

  15. Filburt Says:

    @curbside
    Your analogy is flawed.
    You contradict yourself in all your explanations. You do pay tariffs.

  16. Tommy Jr. Says:

    @curbside

    Okay let me ask in more direct fashion.. if the business you work for decided to fire you, shut its production down in Texas and move production of whatever it is they make, but now overseas, what would be the most likely reason? Or the only reason, really?
    It is nothing more than a chickenshit attempt to shrink some overhead and do the same song and dance else where, but cheaper. They hoped..

    And what part is confusing about pointing out the fact that companies really dont give a fuck what we pay? The most appropriate example of that statement is HD.. HD obviously has given zero shits about what we pay for their products. Are you saying HD does give a fuck?.. how so? The prices on their shit doesnt prove it. Never has.
    And to further point out the zero fucks HD gives, do you think they “care” about all the American jobs they are so eager to shit on and give away over seas?

    HD is acting like they only make a few hundred bucks of a $25k bike sale and cant afford to pay a little extra tax. and we all know thats a crock of shit.

    Im not mad at a company for trying to gain a profit.. but at what point does somebody put those mf’ers back in line? They are creedy fucks.. that saw some incredible all time high profits a few diffferent times over the years. And they act just like every whining ass corperation that goes from $100 profit, to $99 profit, that they are “tanking” or taking losses.. its bullshit. They got used to that $100 profit for a while, so a $99 profit just isnt gonna cut it anymore… “So now lets fucking fire people, pass the buck, and swindle our way out of as much tax as possible by going else where with production so we can get back to $100 profits.”

    Personally, i hope they completely go the way of the dodo bird.
    They act like victims here over this tax deal. Over having to come out of pocket just a tad more. But they forget how many times they have done similar shit to their own customers.
    “Oh you want a back rest with that $25k bike that we claim we didnt make any profit from? That’ll be another $500 please.”
    “Oh and you want some pipes too? That’ll be $600-$1k+ please.”
    “Oh and dont forget to bring it up at 1,000 miles so we can charge you another $440 to change those fluids and kick the tires. Otherwise you’ll void your warranty!”

    Fuck em man. And fuck anybody who sympathizes for them. Round about is fair play. Its Harleys turn to pay up.

  17. Tomo Says:

    I remember visiting the Harley dealership in Leeds (UK) about 5yrs years ago. Despite having posters of sportsbikes on my wall as a kid, I’d always wanted a Harley. I think it was the sound more than anything.
    The salesmen sat at their small desks looked up as I entered and gave that knowing smile I’ve seen so many times before that says ‘you can’t afford it, don’t talk to me.’ I had a quick look and walked out. Next time I went in, same thing from them. This time I noted a wealthy looking middle aged man sat signing paperwork for a bike, the salesman all animated and cheerful.
    Next time I go in, there’s a salesman with long hair in a pony tail, and looks like he actually rides. He jumps up, and even though he obviously knows I’m not a buyer, talks me through the sportser model in the showroom that happens to be the one I like with mini-apes and forward controls. He then gets me sitting on it, watching me grin like a big kid. Comfy as fuck it was.
    We shake hands and joke about when I’ll be able to afford one. At the time I think it was £8k (US$11.7k) for that bike.
    I’m rambling on because I think my experience in that HD dealership neatly reflects what commentators on here have said for years: that HD are only interested in the money/profit not the customer.
    Anyway, I’m off to work now on my 18yr old liquid cooled ER5.
    Have a great day.

  18. BigV Says:

    Fuck Harley. They’re like a big box store, they lose one customer, they say fuck it, this is an opportunity to fill another seat with a different ass.

    Fuck (insert any politicial/social/economic/etc movement here). They’re like a big box store, they lose one customer, they say fuck it, this is an opportunity to fill another seat with a different ass.

    Fuck (Insert any “American” institution). they’re like a big box store, they lose one customer, they say fuck it, this is an opportunity to fill another seat with a different ass.

    Dear Americans that have looked down on “lower” socio-politic-economic classes. Your time to get assfucking is coming. All of you.

    All those people you called crooks, criminals, scumbags, bikers, outlaws, and pieces of shit: welcome to the club.

    Unless you’re in the 1% that controls 99% of the wealth of America- you are now just like everybody else- you’re fair game for the meat grinder, you get to learn the American fucking dream is just that- a dream, LE/MIL/BE- get ready to shit in a toilet on a yard with no fucking privacy, college kids get ready to find out there is a whole world worse than some prick’s class where he expects you to attend to EARN a grade.

  19. Curbside Says:

    @Filiburt, with all due respect, I’ve never tried to justify anything Obama has ever done. I didn’t vote for either of those two asshats, him or Trump.

    I thought it was common knowledge that a politician only seeks office to legalize his crimes.

  20. Curbside Says:

    @Tommy Jr, you’re absolutely right, fuck Europe. I care nothing about what goes on in Europe. I’m in Texas.

    You’re also right, I don’t pay tariffs…but your analogy was flawed. I don’t pay tariffs, just like the president doesn’t pay tariffs. Unlike the president, my business is directly affected by tariffs…namely, the tariffs he championed, which drove up the cost of material my company uses. It is not “weak as fuck” to suggest that someone who does not ride a motorcycle should probably shut the fuck up about companies that make motorcycles, since he has absolutely zero personal interest in the brand.

    I’m a bit confused as to your questioning of whether a company cares about what their customers are paying. You do realize that companies are in business to make a profit, right? The way it works is, a company produces a product and sells it. If the buyer is willing to pay a given price for that product, he will buy it…if not, he won’t buy it. If the price goes up, fewer customers are apt to buy that product. If a company is dealing with added taxes and fees tacked onto their products, the end-user price goes up…which means fewer buyers. If you can produce your product cheaper, there is a greater profit margin at the same end-user price level.

    It doesn’t matter if there’s a “booming market” for Harley-Davidson in Europe. The fact is, there *IS* a market for HD in Europe, which is why they sell motorcycles there. If they are able to make them cheaper, they are able to either sell them cheaper and draw more customers or keep the same price point and increase the profit margin for the company and its’ shareholders.

    A company that doesn’t pay attention to what its’ customers are paying will not remain in business for very long.

    Seriously, this is basic Econ stuff they teach in high school. Everyone should know this.

  21. Austin Says:

    @Filburt I totally agree about the union busting – Today’s news;

    https://www.npr.org/2018/06/27/606208436/supreme-court-deals-blow-to-government-unions

    @Frank Dammit, Frank -Really? Did you at least bring some cold ones???

    @fayettenamhoe re: ” instant image cookie cutter clown outfits, fuck them all in the ass, ”

    Our Poet returns. Always enlightening, entertaining and relateable. Thanks.

  22. fayettenamhoe Says:

    almost made for each other, 2 ego trippers harley and the orange haired baboon’s ass, so glad i hav’nt been in a harley dealership for over 30 years, could’nt care less, they was assholes back then and i’m sure they ai’nt changed, they called my shit obsolete back then? and back then my shit was 30 years old, i don’t know of any self respecting biker that would ever trust any fucking politician fake left or fake right, fuck them and fuck all them politicians, the same with the fucking fake media that brings you the choice to vote for a turd or a shit sandwich, they all will taste like crap, harley trusted a fucking con artist such as trump, hahahahaha, they did this to themselves and their ego trip (outlaw) image has been the only reason their still around, that and their fucking made overseas over priced wardrobes, instant image cookie cutter clown outfits, fuck them all in the ass, i’ve built all my bikes out of parts, pieces make parts and parts turn into bikes, maybe if they went back to making a fucking real motorbike out of real parts, with all the modern technology available they could make an affordable bike that people would want to steal again, when the thieves don’t even want them that says alot, a pile of late model harley parts is a pile of junk and fuck willie G. the management have had their head’s up their ass’s for decades just like trump, put a muffler on them and no one cares, thats why i have a muffler on my shit, you can’t hear me coming or going…… please ride safe and ride free

  23. Anonymous Says:

    @Frank

    The Market is up, unemployment is down, Trump beat Isis, and made peace with North Korea. If Obama had done all of this the libs would have declared him the best president of all time.

  24. david Says:

    It’s the Motor Corporation vs. its own workers and its product purchasers, no politics involved, all business profit, all the time.

    With the state already merged with large banking and manufacturing business corporations , the plan is to create a nation of poor slaves who can never compete. As previously placed over the work camps entrance in Germany,”Work Makes One Free”.

  25. drifter Says:

    RLG typed, “Let me be the first to welcome the FSB to this thread!

    ПРИВЕТ!”……………..ROFL…..”Federal Security Service (FSB), Russian Federalnaya Sluzhba Bezopasnosti, formerly (1994–95) Federal Counterintelligence Service, Russian internal security and counterintelligence service created in 1994 as one of the successor agencies of the Soviet-era KGB.”

  26. rocco151 Says:

    @ Sieg +1

  27. RLG Says:

    Let me be the first to welcome the FSB to this thread!

    ПРИВЕТ!

  28. Filburt Says:

    HD inc. CEO intentions is to destroy our unions. The TTP was very bad for the U.S. unions, families.

    Criticisms from politicians and activists Edit
    In 2014, linguist and political activist Noam Chomsky warned that the TPP is “designed to carry forward the neoliberal project to maximize profit and domination, and to set the working people in the world in competition with one another so as to lower wages to increase insecurity.”[213] Senator Bernie Sanders (I-VT) argues that trade agreements like the TPP “have ended up devastating working families and enriching large corporations.”[214] Professor Robert Reich contends that the TPP is a “Trojan horse in a global race to the bottom.”[215][216][217]

    President Trump Making America Great Again and Draining the Swamp.

  29. Sieg Says:

    Not even gonna bother debating the issue, it’s been done to death, and as a friend posting here reminded me, we aren’t gonna change each other’s minds.

    Republicrat/Demican, it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference, just obverse sides of the same corrupt Occupation Scrip. Now, if we could vote NS… But even then, so many people, even here, throw around comments about “like a Nazi…” that an election that offered them a choice that would be of benefit to them would be a waste. Only way to get them to vote would be to maybe run someone named Che…

    What I will say is that I’m sure if the hildabeast or the commie had been elected president, we’d for damn sure have more to bitch about than the suits at HD deciding to use his trade policy as an excuse to fuck everyone in the world.

    Anyhow. Wonder why HD is so willing to, as they announced, “eat” the cost of the tariff increase…could it be that since HD is basically just an assembly plant that they’ll just shift assembly to another plant? I mean, some of their line is already being manufactured in India and shipped into Europe, so why not? Oh wait…not supposed to mention that, I forgot.

    FTF/FTP
    TOSIAR

  30. Frank Says:

    America is great again, am I right?

  31. Old & Jaded Says:

    An interesting article for anyone interested re the HD opening of a factory in Thailand.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-24/trump-s-tpp-pullout-may-have-cost-missouri-its-harley-factory

    @Curbside @Popeye – Agreed. I think anyone that feels that the Cheeto is trying to help anyone but himself and his rich cronies is in for a surprise.

  32. Filburt Says:

    @curbside
    How do you justify the mulatto muslim Buckwheat Hussein obama’s actions when his “cash for clunkers” program he forced every automotive dealer to participate? Or, when he shut down auto. Dealership’s (Big 3 only) that had been in business for years? Or, when he removed GM’s CEO?

  33. Filburt Says:

    @popeye
    Where was the mulatto muslim Buckwheat Hussein obama and Slick Willie Clinton when it was their time to defend this country?

  34. Filburt Says:

    To all that criticize President Trump shows your incompetence or illiteracy. Trump is correcting trade imbalances that directly affects the American labor force called jobs. American export products are being charged tariffs at ten times the rate as the import foreign products which kills the American worker and companies. All he is doing is charging the same as foreign countries charge us, dollar for dollar. Now, if you find a wrong with that please give your explanation?

  35. Maven Says:

    HD has to do what it has to do to be able to continue to sell bikes all over the world. As much as we all like to bitch about the MoCo, we’d all be worse off if they folded. In a perfect scenario, HD would make and assemble all its bikes here, but there’s rarely a perfect scenario in this world.

    I want HD to last for another 100+ yrs because frankly Indians are ugly as fuck lol. That orange cheeto in the White House needs to stop with these stupid fucking tariffs that ain’t doing nothing but hurting Americans, either through lost jobs, higher prices, or less choice because companies decide to close shop.

  36. Penguin Says:

    I know that the old Harley bikes were copied under license by Japan, and I have been told that the WL’s were also copied in Korea…actually held a set of “Korean 45” cases…set up with K Model uppers in fact…

    The MoCo could repeat that set-up with Asia again, no?

    Ah! But that’s not what they want…they want production of fake American bikes in Asia built by Asians for an Asian population…and they want to do it cheap and glean every dime…

    My next scooter will be made in USA, not Asia. Like everybody knows, you can source every bit from US suppliers, starting with an S&S motor… Lotsa old evo’s and not a few shovels still rolling too. Infinite lifecycle design…

    Screw the MoCo…they build fakes already, and want to take the arrangement to the hilt. They are probably walking dead already…and Clown/King Trumpster seems to know that… Mistakes? Of course. But he’s doing about what he has to, not that it is pretty or nice. Politics is as rough as it can be, always.

    The boffins say that the US economy is to explode within 10 years due to theft mismanagement, debt money, internal contradictions…

    What T is doing is toward the US surviving that experience. It will be horrible especially because of offshoring manufacture. Real poverty, people will argue, a lot.

    About the 25 bucks per…My union rate card is about twice that… And I am not especially good at my trade. I’d quit HD if all they offered was 25 and bennies…

    Build yerown scooter, just as we always did, Brother. The MoCo looks to me like the walking dead… Past the dyin’time.

    And that postpones re-birth… I am looking forward to the next American Motorcycle Company…

    All that’s left now is the icon with a tiny flame, flickering.

  37. popeye Says:

    Trump was fighting the draft board the day macroeconomics was covered at Wharton business school

  38. Tommy Jr. Says:

    @curbside
    Fuck Europe, AND all the cowering they do to muslim immigrants in their own country. It sucked so bad there a few hundred years ago that my ancestors decided to come here instead. And it still sucks. Lol!
    I dont care what you say, it is indeed a labor cost issue that HD is trying to disguise as an imaginary “demanding” market in europe. And Since when did europe buy more HD products than America to the point that they (HD) feel they need to transfer the manufacturing over there? The truth is, they dont. No other country has, or ever will buy more HD products than Americans. That said, there literally is no logical explanation to move manufacturing else where other than lower labor costs.

    Further, how is a bigger tax, payable to uncle sam, in any way hurtful to this country?
    And if your going to attempt to only accept an argument from a Harley owner as basis for merit in the debate, then maybe we can apply that same logic to you or anyone else who has a say?

    Since your example basically was “Trump dont even ride, so he should stfu”
    I will apply that exact logic right back at you..
    Since you personally dont pay a tax tariff on the exporting of an entire product line you own, then you should also stfu?

    ..see how that logic is weak as fuck in regards to debate and is nothing more than round about? Skip that angle next time.

    Last time i checked, when does a business owner (any business owner) TRULY give a fuck how much a customer has to pay them for what they offer? Especially HD.
    HD damn sure never gave a fuck what we in America thought about the high prices. Hints why a simple quick detach passenger backrest cost an extra $500 on top of a bike you just paid out the ass for. Oh, and another $1k on exhaust so it actually sounds like a Harley should..
    So why is HD just now acting like they give a fuck what a customer has to pay? Especially in another country?
    The truth is, they still dont give a fuck. HD isnt some revered good guy you need to defend. They are in it to win it just like any creedy business. And so i dont come off as contradictory to myself, im not defending Trump either. Im merely pointing out that America wins on this tax tariff deal. At least in regards to making moves to decrease the overall deficit one dollar at a time. At some point, somebody is gonna have to be forced to start paying that mf’er down, or its only gonna get worse.

    Another random FYI.. did you know that most all places in Europe require all licensed motorcycle riders to start out on a very small CC motorcycle, and over nearly a 5 year period, regardless of ones maturity level when they decided to get licensed and start riding a motorcycle, have to work their way up to even 1000ccs?
    Yeah.. what that means is that it may take most Europeans nearly 5 years from the time they get licensed to ride a small cc motorcycle to even one day legally be able to consider buying just a sportster and riding it. So again, there is no booming european HD demand. Damn sure not in comparison to America.

    The only other avenue of discussion here to touch on would be-
    Does HD actually believe that they will sell more bikes in europe if they move an assembly plant there?
    If so, then fuck em. Let em try their luck there.

  39. Moses Says:

    While watching the news last night they showed a guy wearing a Urine Order T-shirt working at Harley. WTF?

  40. RLG Says:

    Those tweets were sent from his account but were written by staff.

  41. Curbside Says:

    That douche canoe doesn’t ride a bike. He should probably just shut the fuck up about what Harley is doing in response to market restrictions where the MoCo has customers.

    HD’s latest move isn’t about “cheap labor”. It’s about not being able to sell bikes in Europe without paying outrageous import tariffs. It’s cheaper to assemble them in Europe.

    Speaking of tariffs, Dear Leader should really just shut the fuck up entirely, considering what he’s done to the steel and aluminum prices in this country. If you make the cost of imported material go up, the price of domestic material will also go up. That price increase will either be passed on to the customer with a resulting lower sales figure, or it will not be passed on to the customer resulting in a lower profit margin. Either way, the bottom line suffers.

    You’d think a “businessman” of his stature would understand this shit. It’s not rocket surgery.

  42. Sled Tramp Says:

    The execs at the motor company are probably having a party….they’ve been looking for an excuse to leave for years.Screwing the workers,overpricing sleds,having no clue as to reality in their marketing….and a Harley is hardly all American anymore.

  43. Tommy Jr. Says:

    Not really into politics, but this one caught my attention.
    Couldnt agree more with Trump here.
    I love my bike, but fuck HD for this chickenshit move. They want to fuck Americans out of jobs and take production overseas so they can pay pennies for labor, only to sell right back to us at the same bloated prices!
    I say tax the dog shit out if HD if thats the game they want to play!

    And before anyone gets on here with that same tired ass line that “HD already has foreign parts”, save it. We are all well aware of the metric front ends. But at least up until this point Americans were still getting paid over $25 an hour to assemble the bikes here in the US. Regardless of what country a couple front end parts were molded in, HD still had the fortitude to pay Americans an American wage for the labor at least.
    Keyword- Had.

  44. Mr Nobody Says:

    I’m not going to choose Trump over Harley.

    I understand why Harley is manufacturing overseas for overseas markets. I’m ok with that as long as they aren’t manufacturing overseas for domestic markets. They already have factories in Brazil and India. One more in Thailand for the European Union shouldn’t make a difference.

    The reason Harley has a problem domestically with the younger generation is simply the cost when new. Younger people simply can’t afford the cost of a new Harley. The economy isn’t what it used to be.

  45. Paladin Says:

    There are those that don’t care for the Indian’s Art Nouveau styling, but from an engineering standpoint, the Indian’s engine is a vastly superior design as compared to that of the Harley Davidson.

    Paladin

  46. PTK Says:

    Got to agree with Trump.
    If it’s not made in America it’s not a Harley.

  47. freebird Says:

    Even the Romans had their day in the sun….. Everything has a season, than it dies.

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