Reading The Autopsies Again

August 14, 2015

All Posts, News

Reading The Autopsies Again

The autopsy reports for the nine men killed in the Twin Peaks Massacre in Waco on May 17 are a thicket of words that don’t seem to answer many questions. The reports may be as important for what they don’t disprove as for what they do or don’t prove. They do not for example, disprove the notion that all, or at least most of the dead men were killed by police using M-16s and FN P90 machine guns.

Thirteen of sixteen entrance wounds were .25 inches in diameter or smaller.

FN P90s fire a round with a diameter of .224409 inches. M-16s fire slightly smaller rounds with diameters of 0.218898 inches. All but one of the victims had wounds fired from a downward trajectory. Six of the nine dead had head or neck wounds. None of the wounds contained gunshot residue which indicates that the shots were fired from at least three feet away and probably five feet or farther away. The absence of residue casts doubt on claims by prosecutors of  “Bandidos executing Cossacks, and Cossacks executing Bandidos.” Two of the dead had large wounds consistent with a 12 gauge shotgun slug. Ten of 16 wounds were in the back, indicating that the victims were running away when they died. Seven of the wounds were fired from right to left. Six were fired from left to right.

Nine millimeter bullets have a diameter of 0.35433 inches; forty caliber handguns fire a bullet that is four tenths of an inch in diameter and 357 magnums fire rounds that are about .357 inches in diameter.

Highly Deformed

Most of the recovered bullets were either highly deformed or fragmented which indicates they were fired by high velocity weapons and suggests those bullets were shaped like a swallow’s tail. Bullets fired from M-16s have a muzzle velocity of 3,110 feet per second. Bullets fired from FN P90s leave that weapon’s comparatively short barrel at 2,350 feet per second. Bullets generally leave the barrels of nine millimeter handguns at between 950 and 1,300 feet per second; 40 mm handguns generally have a muzzle velocity of between 1,000 and 1,200 feet per second; bullets leave a .357 magnum at about 1,500 feet per second or less; 38 Specials generally have a muzzle velocity of 1,000 feet per second or less.

Most police ammunition in the United States is designed to penetrate a human body to a depth of 12 inches and for that reason that ammunition is usually copper jacketed. Most of the bullets that killed at the Twin Peaks were copper jacketed. Bullets fired from high velocity M-16s, have a tendency to tumble after impact. M-16 rounds tumble because the tail of the projectile is heavier than the nose. The kinetic energy contained in the round has to go somewhere so the bullet tumbles, deforms and usually stops before reaching a depth of 12 inches. Most of the wounds described in the autopsies are consistent with wounds inflicted by M-16s. Both M-16s and FN P90s fire swallow tail shaped bullets.

None of the autopsies include ballistics information. Notations by eight pathologists involved in the autopsies describe bullets and bullet fragments in very general and inconsistent terms. One hundred fifty-one firearms were seized at the crime scene. Bikers usually carry small caliber pistols that range from small revolvers and derringers up to .380 automatics. Ballistic tests on the weapons seized at the Twin Peaks are being conducted by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. An informed source with knowledge of ATF procedures speculated that the tests would be completed in November.


140 Responses to “Reading The Autopsies Again”

  1. Thunderbird Says:

    Jim666. It seems to me that if the police thought there would be trouble at the Twin Peaks they should have shown their presence at the meeting to keep the peace. Isn’t this what they are supposed to do for the public interest?

    One of my collateral duties when in the military during the Viet Nam war when the men were on R&R was shore patrol duty. We dealt with a lot of rough marines. But we were trained how to defuse a situation.

    It is no different in civilian life. The fact that the Waco PD were missing in action and allowed this senseless ambush speaks volumes about their mentality.

    From a military point of view this tragedy at the Twin Peaks on May 17th 2015 should not have happened.

  2. Zorro Says:

    How many terrorists has the DHS stopped? What exactly does the ATF do to justify their pay? When was the last time that the FBI really did anything noteworthy? Wait let’s go deep…Why do we need judges if our constitutional rights are not being upheld? The only organized crime syndicate in Waco are members of the DA’s office, the police department, the sheriff and…the judicial department. Orchestrating events (that led to death, destruction of property and livelihood..)to push their agenda. How low can you go? asked the snake to the undercover cop.

  3. John Deaux Says:

    In reference to the ” Motorcycle Profiling Project “, it seems they are only interested in posting comments from those in complete agreement with their agenda.
    I posted that Rebel’s site being a free speech site any or all have their chance to have a say here but besides some huffing and puffing it has not happened. Also how ridiculous it was to call for a boycott of Rebel’s site but has been silent about boycotting Waco, Twin Peaks, ROT, or any place who posted no colors signs after the shooting, there’s been NO call to action on any of those points. Where was the COC&I after the shootings ? The silence was deafening and it looked like it was MIA while it went into CYA mode.
    I wrote this among other things approximately 30 hours or so ago, it has yet to be posted. I ain’t holding my breath.

  4. Justathought Says:

    Bandidos show of force? 12 people or so??!!??? IN TEXAS!!!…They could have had hundreds, maybe thousand there, if they’d wanted to make a “show of force”! It’s Texas, surrounded by other states Bandidos are often seen running deep in…

  5. CH Says:

    awwwwwww….. come on…u know yer government is yer friend!
    They just trying to protect u from the boogieman.
    This is why everyone needs to keep buying into the fear…keep voting in all the swine…. errr…. I mean patriots….WATCH FOX NEWS….wave that friggin flag & PRAY TO JESUS!…
    cause yer government is yer holy ally against everything you fear!

    GET IT YET??????????

    FTW…every day…all day & all night………baby!………:)

  6. rojas Says:

    Here’s the money quote from the examining trial. Key word “parties”.

    “Jarrett said the Englishes acted as parties to aid and support a criminal activity.”

    Assuming Witherspoon’s tweets are a fairly complete transcript, I thought Looney’s performance was mediocre.

    If I understand correctly one receives a “support patch” when you join a political organization, Texas Confederation of Clubs and Independents. The State alleges that this organization is an “alter ego” for a “criminal street gang”. Looney seemed too eager to blame the Bandidos in lieu of probing this opening.

  7. Sam ironknife Says:

    Those poor fucked were murdered by the state… And the mass media completly ignored the massacre… The police kill more civilians annually than any criminal organizations in America but that don’t sell on TV. Rat fucks

  8. The Confederate Celt Says:

    The only “Terror Attacks” stopped by the FBI and other Federal Alphabet Agencies are those “Terror Attacks” set up and run by their own Agent Provocateurs.

  9. Traveylin Says:

    The shell game being orchestrated by Waco judicial is working extremely well. All the focus is on biker being somewhat associated with a disassociated gang, and soon to be compared to Black lives matter gangs, and boy scouts. The real issue is that 26 people were shot by police and nine died. There is no investigation of the police and the national news media by there absence is implicated in the coverup.

  10. david Says:

    With respect: On the “real Issue”, mass murder and injury by pigs, with no pigs being investigated for ANYTHING which occurred. No focus on the murderers.

    Private investigators looking into the massacre, who would probably have to stay awake 24/7 to remain alive with the pig-gang in terrorist mode, could obtain incriminating evidence. Of course, they’re for hire.

  11. david Says:

    @ Liberty, with respect:
    On the bull-shit examining trials. Judge James Morgan is NOT an elected judge, he was “appointed” by Judge Billy Ray Stubblefield.

    All arrested have a Ninth Amend. constitutionally protected right to have an ELECTED, therefore answerable to the people, judge decide probable cause. Appointed judges are answerable to the judge who appoints them, NOT the people.

    Morgan is the worst possible for probable cause since the people cannot un-elect him, and area lawyers have long considered Morgan a hard-nosed “law and order” judge. The probable cause hearings are no justice BULL-Shit fake shows for media consumption. Slam dunk for the prosecution.

  12. roachclip Says:

    @ The Confederate Celt,
    I’ve often wondered whether I was the only one who noticed that very same thing. Glad to see someone else is paying attention.

    Respects, roach.

  13. Uncle Chuck Says:

    BANG! – freeze!
    Chit, got it wrong again Homer….
    Sorry, my dyslexia kicked in.

  14. Tooj Says:

    @John Deaux,

    It appears to me that this “MPP” is some new kid on the block, having started up in June? I suppose one “could” call foul over their blog regarding “the man in the blue shirt”? How much factual information goes into that blurry ass conjecture?

    When the bullets start flying, any reasonable person is going to get the fuck to safety. So, someone is watching a bunch of cops surrounding a bunch of bikers and he is obviously a “signal man”? WTF??

    And I recall that quite often Amy White was on here singing Rebel’s praises when shit went her way. And yup, I too was pretty grossed out that she expressed for all to read that she would drink JJ Solari’s bathwater.

    I, for one, know that JJ only bathes every six months, so we know what she’s into.

  15. Rebel Says:

    Dear Tooj,

    The MPP seems to be mostly a guy named David “Double D” Devereaux and I owe that lying ocksucker a punch in the mouth. The hatchet job on me, the one that calls on bikers to boycott this site, was sourced by Amy White. That post lectures me about a completely fictitous article, that is “no longer posted,” and accuses me, “Despite zero substantiating fact, the Irresponsible Rebel crossed the lines of ethics and decency by plastering the names of wives and children on a blog. These accusations were irresponsible, unethical, disrespectful, and damaging at many levels.” And they exist only and entirely in the heads of Amy Irene White and David Devereaux.

    Then this Devereaux faggot, “As a national spokesperson representing confederations and coalitions of motorcycle clubs coast-to-coast,” takes it upon himself to “answer my irresponsible reporting,” in an article I did not write and that only he and Amy White have seen.

    The idea that the guy in the blue shirt was giving a signal to open fire is less personally offensive to me but I think it betrays Devereaus’ stupidity. There were at least 20 cops standing there in uniform. If there was a signal, why didn’t one of them give it? The idea that Devereaux has discovered something new in plain sight that nobody else has seen is both self serving and stupid. Devereaux’ blog seems intended to promote something called the “US Defenders National Office.” The stories are lazy, stupid and written to grab as much attention as possible. Anybody who has any clue who “US Defenders National Office” is, please let me know. I have a lawsuit for them.


  16. John Deaux Says:

    What I know about US Defenders is it came about from the Texas Defenders, a program founded basically by Bandido Gimmy Jimmy, if memory serves. The TD was successful in political activism for Texas riders rights so the decision to go national hence US Defenders. It was successful in changes in Wa. state dealing with profiling laws.
    How or when Double D took over to become the mouth piece is not to my knowledge. It seems Amy has his ear and is talking constantly into it.
    I’m posting what I believe to be true to the best of my knowledge and mean no disrespect with the above statement and if I’m wrong on facts it was not my intention.

  17. Phuquehed Says:

    Who or what is this ‘MPP’ thing? So far it seems that that useless stinking cunt Amy is at the center of it (along with this Devereaux faggot Rebel is talking about).

    @Amy ‘The Stupid Stinking Cunt’ White – Pull your head out of that nasty Miraculous Mutha cunt of yours, swat away as many of the flies as you can, scratch your way past the scabs, spray some disinfectant and take a breath of fresh air…it might help you start to think straight.

  18. anonymouse Says:

    “Self serving and stupid.”

    Well, that explains Amy White’s attraction to the site, if not the level of her involvement. The piss poor writing makes me suspect her involvement is much more than she lets on.

    I guess her hissy fits here and blogs about fuck me shoes weren’t garnering enough attention. The poor thing doesn’t even have the sense to be embarrassed.

  19. Tooj Says:

    I found the “signal” a sign of stupidity. The fellow reached up to the side of his head and “DD” referred to this as the “universal sign for police”. Huh? I’ve seen fellows pat the top of their head to indicate 5-0 in the vicinity, but this??

    I was wondering if I missed something here when it came to names of wives, children, etc. I recall a couple comments wondering if the releases meant that these fellows “might” be CI’s and that was it; conjecture. Never seen you do that to women and esp. not children. This bunch has something expanding in their respective colons for sure.

    The shit you put up with…respects.

  20. Cassandra j Says:

    Yes, they were executed, all of them,, executed by the “law”,,, those pigs were all outside waiting, they were informed of what and who was where,, I’m sure it will eventually come out. The real reasons those agents had to murder those bros. It was a very neat and tidy story, two adverse clubs in one spot, things get heated, guns are a blaze, everyone dies. Sounds like a set up to me. I’m young but I’ve been around enough to know a set up when I see one. The day the news broke that shit didn’t add up.

  21. Jim666 Says:

    @ Thunderbird
    that is exactly what I have thought all along, If these idiot pigs and or feds knew of even had a small thought that something like what has been said by them was in the works why didn’t they stop it before it happened ? Unless they wanted or enticed it to happen ,either way it seems to me the blame is on them ,either they made this happen by provoking or staged a mass killing , or just sat back until the shots were being fired any way you look at it they “feds/cops ” are to blame .
    I don’t care how they try and spin this the feds and cops are at fault,
    And as stated as cause of death on the pic.s of the autopsies “Homicide”
    is what these pigs and or federal clowns should be charged with, at the very least homicide from negligence, As they if “knowing as suggested” just sat back and waited,
    But I tend to think they started if not fired all the kill shots themselves,
    So if it does come out that way will these cops/feds be charged ?

    Thanks ak rack for posting those.


  22. Rebel Says:

    Dear John Deaux,

    Thank you. I appreciate that.


  23. Dr. Sardonicus Says:

    If memory serves me, and often it does not; over the period of the Eisenhower Administration to present day, there has been a predilection for the U.S. Department of Justice with all of its resources to launch their own investigation usually after the state and local judicial conclude.

    Something of this size and scope with this many anomalies begs for the same.
    Of course, a continuum of protestations and outrage from the citizenry and the rest of us, should not be abated nor abandoned.

  24. John Deaux Says:

    Your very welcome, hope it helps you in some way.
    Much respect.
    FTP. FTF. FTW.

  25. CH Says:

    @ Phuquehed …………

    You said—->

    “@Amy ‘The Stupid Stinking Cunt’ White – Pull your head out of that nasty Miraculous Mutha cunt of yours, swat away as many of the flies as you can, scratch your way past the scabs, spray some disinfectant and take a breath of fresh air…it might help you start to think straight.”

    DUDE!….you didn’t have to hold back…just lay it out there!


    (friggin spit beer all over my keyboard when I read it)…

    I gotta agree with ya………….only thing I’d like to add is…….

    1- I do not believe the DRAMA QUEEN OLD “CUNT” (can’t understand normal thinking) can “think”.

    2- Add a good ole fashioned spanking to your cure

    3 – insert dirty sock in her mouth……..because shutting the “F” up would be the best thing she can do!

    FTW–all day & every day Baby!

  26. Johnny D Says:

    Rebel, The US Defenders Program was started in Texas. Gimmy Jimmy was the national director. Most state COCs have a defenders program. In Arizona, our Arizona Confederation of Motorcycle Clubs requires every member club to have 2 members to relay information and calls to action. The Motorcycle Profiling Project started after Washington state passed their biker anti-profiling legislation. In many other states we have been trying to pass similar bills. DD has worked with many of our lobbyists, myself included, on such legislation. The goal is to get several states to pass the legislation and then try it on the federal level. NCOM works with a number of COCs to defend biker rights and promote biker friendly legislation. In July, a number of COCs sent representatives to Denver to create a new organization. They called it the Council Of Clubs. DD was there as were a number of representatives of the main MCs in the country, The goal was to create a nationwide truce, and work together to fight LE harassment of MC members. The Waco massacre sent shockwaves through the biker world. ABATE chapters all over the country as well as MMA chapters are coming together with the various COCs, as the independents have realized that LE targeting of bikers will get them killed as quickly as members of premier MCs. I believe DD was wrong in his posting. I depend on you for in depth information, and will continue to read your columns. This next session I will be presenting several motorcycle related bills to our legislature including a biker anti-profiling bill. The lunacy of calling for a boycott of a news source as valuable as Aging Rebel makes no sense. His communications should have been private until the issue was sorted out. Thank you for keeping the information coming out.

  27. Outside it all. Says:

    Rebel, write your view as to the happenings in Waco then beg, barrow or rent a video camera. {phone?}…. get it out on the net. {youtube?} It is time the world hears words coming from a human face that is not apart of the Waco or Texas “culture”/Law dogs. Before its to late for everybody.

  28. Tooj Says:

    @Rebel, they were easy enough to find via web search (see link). Double D is listed as “National Legislative Liaison”. They don’t exist in KS.

    I’m not sure WHAT they are:

    “The US Defenders program is not a Motorcycle Rights Organization (MRO) but it does have one thing in common…it fights for our rights and civil liberties.

    US Defenders drive hard for awareness and togetherness so we can all speak with One Loud Voice!”

  29. stroker Says:

    Rebel…..(and anyone else interested)
    I believe Double D has probably been influenced to some extent by another “writer” (term used loosely!). I know Double D, and it’s hard for me to believe he takes the stance toward you in his blog, that he has. He IS a force in the Washington/Oregon area, and has done a lot of good for biker’s right’s up there, including passage of anti-profiling bills in Washington State.
    I’d hate to see the two of you at odds with each other, because the bottom line is, you are both on the same side when it comes to biker’s rights, or those rights being oppressed.

  30. Rebel Says:

    Dear stroker,

    This Double D motherfucker is certainly not on my side. He went out of his way to gratuitously lie about me in order to smear my credibility. I’m not sure how this site threatens him. I do know this site threatens a lot of people.


  31. NOS4A2 Says:

    Maybe Amy and DD are in some sort of oneupmanship competition with you that you haven’t been advised of. Competitions usually have guidelines and rules to play by. But since those haven’t been provided to you the gloves are off. So, go get ’em.

    Then again maybe Amy is sucking DD’s dick.

  32. John Deaux Says:

    As I emailed to Rebel earlier today, I was active locally on the independent side of US Defenders several years ago when it moved up from Texas Defenders. It was then and probably still is a worthwhile organization in bikers rights.
    Also I believe, stated so to him and will here as well that IMHO it’s Amy White who wrote that article. She probably loves seeing her name mentioned here.
    As such I respectfully suggest if you know Double D, get in touch with him and find out who his source is or invite him here to have his say.

  33. Bone Head Says:

    I’m going to ask a dumb question.
    Here in the last few weeks there has been an upsurge in people commenting and sounding like cops. In all likelihood if they’re not, they employed by doj or some other bunch of assholes.
    I’ve not been to DoubleD’s website, I do not know of him or why he might badmouth Rebel. Is it possible that he’s been “hijacked” by doj or some other group of assholes to cast dispersion on this site and create friction?
    If I’m out of line I apologize.


  34. Wolfenlover Says:

    John Deaux, as Paul Harvey used to say “THEY would like to have their name
    mentioned here.And now for other news…” After seeing the shit this waste
    of pussy has pulled, I will never write the C.U.N.T.’s name again. Not
    worthy of recognition. Any mention of her/it’s name, good,bad or indifferent
    is recognition. I’m not gonna do it. FUCK the slit! She proclaimed long &
    loud that she was Rebel’s FRIEND for so many years, then pull this shit?!
    FABODS!(Fuck A Bunch Of Dumb Shit)

    RESPECTS Rebel & to the real regulars

  35. Wolfenlover Says:

    Bone Head, if they sound like COPS to ya…”If it QUACKS like a DUCK…”
    Just like from the movie POLTERGIEST “THEY’RE HERE.” You can make bank on
    that. Trust your instincts, I do. I ain’t been wrong often.
    I’m still waiting on “the Punishers Keeper” to refute me about him!

  36. ElleElle Says:

    Rebel, no one likes it when someone gets to close to the truth of a matter. It always threatens the persona they would rather you see. It would take one humble ass mother to go about it otherwise.


  1. Waco Biker Massacre: Inconclusive Autopsy Reports, Absurd Court Decisions, Gag Order Maintained - Hit & Run : - August 28, 2015

    […] While they do not authoritatively state any judgment on to exactly what type of bullets from what type of gun did the killings—important to discover how many of the deaths and woundings were caused by police themselves as opposed to out of control feuding bikers—the Aging Rebel web site sums up what they don’t tell us: […]

  2. Waco Biker Massacre: Inconclusive Autopsy Reports, Absurd Court Decisions, Gag Order Maintained | Forensic News - August 28, 2015

    […] While they do not authoritatively state any judgment on to exactly what type of bullets from what type of gun did the killings—important to discover how many of the deaths and woundings were caused by police themselves as opposed to out of control feuding bikers—the Aging Rebel web site sums up what they don’t tell us: […]

Leave a Reply