Say It Ain’t So, George

February 4, 2015

All Posts, Features, News

The Aging Rebel has legally obtained multiple audio tapes from multiple sources that suggest that George Christie, former president of the Ventura charter of the Hells Angels Motorcycle Club, began cooperating with police in April 2008 after he was arrested for possession of methamphetamine and cocaine.

There is no smoking gun that proves Christie debriefed with police. There is evidence that Christie was significantly more conversational with police than most Hells Angels.

The non-duplicate tapes amount to about 110 minutes and include long conversations between Christie and Ventura County Sheriff’s Detective Mike Harris and Ventura Police Department Detective Terry Medina. Some of the tapes are recordings of intercepted telephone calls. All but one of the tapes is undated. That single tape is dated April 25, 2008. Another tape contains a reference to Doc Cavazos, who was President of the Mongols Motorcycle Club until August 2008.

Most of the conversations amount to what is legally called “consensual contacts.”

Gonna Be A Problem

The day of his 2008 arrest, Christie asks, “Is this gonna be a problem.”

“We can’t over look the fact that you have coke or meth and you have a lot of cash there,” a policeman replies. “At the minimum it is possession and under the influence. That’s a lot of pills.”

“I got a four year old and a fifteen year old.” Christie replies. “This is it for me.”

““It won’t take much to do you for sales,” a cop says.

I’m Talkin’ To Law Enforcement

During a taped telephone conversation the day after Christie’s arrest he volunteers:

““I like to get along with everybody. I talk to Tom. I talk to Doc…. The contraband I got caught with yesterday? Maybe I can work out some kind of community service.”

Christie describes himself to police, “as a Hells Angel who’s been politically involved at the top for the last 20 years.” At one point during that conversation, he asks his daughter to quiet down and adds, “I’m talkin’ to law enforcement on the phone.”

“How can I get a hold of you,” Christie asks during one conversation.

The detective replies, “Six-seven-seven-eight-seven-seven-one.”

If We Can’t Trust Somebody

Ironies abound in the tapes. During one exchange, Christie is arguing that the Ventura charter has a rule against motorcycle thefts and Christie tells Harris that the Ventura Sheriffs must have similar rules. Harris replies, “We work on the assumption we can trust everybody. If we can’t trust somebody they’re gone.”

Long portions of the tapes are a cat and mouse game between the police and Christie about the Ventura charter’s possible involvement in motorcycle thefts. Christie’s son, George Jr., was caught with a motorcycle that contained, at least, stolen parts. The younger Christie bought it from another club member and sold it to a third club member. The bike remained in George Christie, Sr.’s possession.

George Christie, Sr. insisted that members of the Ventura charter were forbidden to steal bikes and if anything like that happened, it happened behind his back. “What does Georgie need to do,” Christie asked. “I don’t want to see my boy get in trouble. But if he bought that bike knowing it was hot….”

Harris confronts Christie, saying “You could not give the bike back legally so you decided to keep it as long as you could.”

In bargaining on behalf of his son, Christie seems to criminally implicate another club member. Christie tells the detective, “Georgie’s bike is stolen? He got that from another member. I’m not even gonna mention his name. You know who he dealt with. I’m talking off the record here I hope.”

Christie also tells detectives he has “short term memory loss” as a result of a motorcycle accident.

Plomell

“You know you had a tap on your phone right,” Harris asks, then mentions a “call from Plomell about a Mongols motorcycle they wanted to steal.” Christie replies that he knew about the tap.

Plomell is former Ventura charter member Jared Ostrum “Crash” Plomell. The Aging Rebel has heard the recorded conversation between Christie and Plomell about stealing a motorcycle that belongs to a Mongols member. The motorcycle was not actually stolen. Plomell was indicted by a federal grand jury in November 2010 for possession of methamphetamine with intent to distribute and for an illegal gun sale. Plomell, according to an informed source, eventually became a cooperating witness.

The public record contains many volumes of information about the legal woes of the Hells Angels Ventura charter after about November 2007 when Plomell was stopped for a routine traffic violation by Ventura County Sheriffs. Plomell is no longer a member of the Hells Angels Motorcycle Club.

At one point in the tape recordings, Harris tells Christie, “I’ve been after you for a long time dude. You know why. A lot of people have poured their hearts out to you and have copped to a lot of dirty deeds to you.”

Last Case

Christie was expelled from the Hells Angels in 2011 and was indicted in December of that year along with four other men for conspiring to extort money from Ventura County, California tattoo parlors and for conspiring to fire bomb two Ventura tattoo parlors called Scratch the Surface and Twisted Ink. At the time of the arsons, Christie owned a tattoo shop called The Ink House. The principal accusers against him seem to have been Crash Plomell and James David Ivans, Jr.

Christie faced life imprisonment on the charges and went to trial in January 2013. Five days into the trial, at the conclusion of voir dire, Christie reached a plea deal. His sentencing was delayed until August 2013. He began a one year sentence in October 2013. Since Christie reached his deal, virtually every document filed in the case has been sealed.

While he was under indictment, Christie and his last case became the subject of a documentary by the British film maker Nick Mead. The film had been completed and had secured distribution. It was previewed at the Glastonbury Festival of Contemporary Performing Arts is Pilton, England last year. Last week, Mead announced that he was washing his hands of the film.

In a written statement, Mead said, “I wanted this to be a film based on hard facts and truths. Unfortunately I no longer believe in this film nor it’s subject matter…. This has become a film I can no longer stand by and be proud of.”

“I always have been and remain very respectful of, as well as inspired by, the Hells Angels Motorcycle Club, and this continues.”

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134 Responses to “Say It Ain’t So, George”

  1. alan B'stard MP (@alanBStardmp) Says:

    11c_Infantry I knew many bikers of a previous generation, and they weren’t like these scumbags. They didn’t do drive by shooting, carry knives and guns, and didn’t change clubs like they changed their underwear

  2. Road Whore Says:

    @ Zed:

    That’s MR. Whore to you, Sir.

    Well, at least you recognize our government for the cheating, thieving, lying entity that it is. However you assume, I guess, from the tone of your reply that I’m one of those criminal elements. You will be pleased to know that I have truth in my life, and that I’ve worked long and hard to establish it and maintain it. I guess it will sadden you deeply to learn that some of my, and other folks’, family members are cheating, thieving, lying scum, and also a few of my neighbors. You seem to want to grab a big old brush of whitewash and paint the world pretty with it…ta’int that way, old chum. And for the record: some of the absolute worst horse thieves I’ve known have been preachers in churches; top levels in LE; teachers; etc.

    Later, Zedarooney.

  3. P-body Says:

    alan B,

    I’m pretty happy with my priorities, thank you. You seem to like cherry picking history, although your “facts” seem fuzzy. Did any of these atrocities occur in this millennium? And Middle East Organized crime? Wow, that’s a reach. Especially for a troll. LE repulses me here because it cheapens the quality of conversation. Our policy isn’t to lie, fabricate, coerce, or harass anyone into thinking or “believing” our perspective. With Leo’s, DA’s, and the judicial system it seems to be their default tactic.

    Would you really like to cherry pick criminal behavior by different organizations? Put any police dept. or DA’s office or judicial office under the microscope and see what happens. The difference is color of law. That’s what’s reprehensible to me.

    Respect to the 81 and condolences over their loss.

    Thanks Rebel,
    P-body

  4. Zed Says:

    Wow, who knew id get such feedback. Listen here, I ain’t no troll, I ride. Patched bikers are famous for stealing bikes. Don’t play it off like that its only a few bad apples spoil the bunch. With all this tough talk about honor and respect, I was hoping to find a stand up guy who may have some regret in being a horse thief. Guess not. And hey Whore I don’t think taking cues from government is the smartest move, how about you take notice to family and neighbors that work hard for less than decent pay because its honest and maybe you’ll find some truth in your life.

  5. Ol'Goat Says:

    Unbelievable. Only thing I can think to say is look at Diamond Dan. Diamond Dan has spent about 70% of his club life behind bars and never turned rat in the face of sentences measured in decades. God bless Diamond Dan Bifield.

    http://www.bop.gov/inmates/communications.jsp

  6. Wolfenlover Says:

    I bow to your better search, Rebel. The BASTARD is in deed in AUS.! The
    F’n TROLL HOUSE web-site is in England. He’s not really WELCOMED there
    either! Imagine that! Fucking BASEMENT-CLOSETED TROLL who can’t WANK-OFF
    to anything but abuse. How does a 4″ dicked fucker WHACK a woman?! It just
    can’t happen! Do you add to your actual DICK size?! Evidently. By the time
    you got your 3″ fist around it, you have 2″ spare!
    FEEDIN’ TH’ TROLL, FEEDIN’ TH’ TROLL NYUK, NYUK

  7. FF Says:

    “I volunteer to rage against the machine, but my family didn’t. If the gears of that machine threatened my family I don’t know what I’d do.”

    @P-Body

    It takes a big man to admit that, and not front. I agree, NOBODY knows until that moment of extreme adversity hits. Life’s experience has shown me more often than not how wrong I can be about assessing a situation before it occurs and what actually happened in the aftermath. The military is a great place for that, whether it’s basic training or an actual baptism of fire— the guy you thought would piss his pants didn’t and the guy you thought had big balls started crying. Who knows? As far as the pigs going after family members like the British did to the Boars in South Africa— I’ve had that conversation with my wife. She told me flat out “if you want to get involved with THOSE PEOPLE and ruin your life, you won’t be ruining my life or your daughters life.” She told me if the FBI show up at the door, she’s telling them everything she knows. She will do everything she can to protect herself and my daughter and the Hell with me “you fucked up, you pay the consequences”.

    Would she actually do it? I don’t know. The FBI hasn’t knocked on my door yet. I’m sure there are wives who told their husbands that they would stick by them through thick and thin, and sold ’em out not even because they were being threatened but did it for money or whatever. Who know, right?

    I listen to everything people tell me or say in front of me, but none of it is gospel. Actions to me are everything. Look, We’ve all said bigoted things, or even damn straight racist things. But if I had to bet a paycheck on it, if I was taking a walk down the road with any one of the regulars on the Aging Rebel forum who is known to be or has confirmed himself to be a racists and we happened to come upon a house on fire and their were kids on a second floor screaming for help and those kids were black— so what, I haven’t a doubt in my mind either one of us would hesitate to try and save those kids. None whatsoever.

    But who knows, right?

    Once again, I appreciate your candor.

    L,P&R

    Frequent Flyer

  8. popeye Says:

    @BigV
    I remember “gorilla” James harwood from Troy in the early 80’s . He did a lot of damage and for no reason. I was finishing a bid in 1988 at Hudson correctional facility and brought the case transcripts out during a forlough. Havent thought about him in a long time. I always wondered where he was gonna hide with that back piece. I heard he found God.

  9. Rusty Says:

    As entertaining as it can be, engaging trolls, fire starters etc is in reality a waste of time if seeking more than entertainment.
    Alan is a perfect example, the stupid fuck didn’t even catch the meaning of my statement he attempted to quote.

    Respect to the deserving

  10. Dr. Sardonicus Says:

    Condolences to the Arizona HAMC Chapters for the loss of their brother in Phoenix who was gunned down last night and pronounced dead at the scene. He died riding his bike with other bikers in a group. He was 23 years old.

    All respects due.

  11. Steel Says:

    @Paladin, much respect. I was pondering over my thoughts and you had already pretty much covered what I would have said. Again many respects and I respect your comments.

  12. Paladin Says:

    Alan,

    It’s obvious to me that your opinion on all things bikie is solely derived from the written opinions of others, making your point of view myopic and nearsighted. It would appear that your reasoning is based on the flawed concept of “if someone wrote it, it must be true”. Forming an opinion that’s based on the opinions of others is shallow and lazy.

    In my prior post, I tried to make the point that all bikies aren’t criminals, just as all men of the cloth aren’t child molesters. Your reply to my post speaks to your immaturity and your steadfast refusal to see anything from a perspective other than your own. This makes you a Troll.

    If you’re going to discuss or debate a topic, it might be helpful to know something about the topic that’s going to be discussed or debated. The foregoing gives one credibility and keeps one from being labeled a fool.

    Paladin

  13. 11c_infantry Says:

    alan,
    No, I know you are either a) a cop, b) a cop groupie, or c) a moron. Real people (you know, the ones who actually work for a living instead of victimizing people using their badges)understand that the public record says pretty much what the powers-that-be want it to say. Little guys have no voice, so when they get arrested, the only thing that winds up in your precious public record is a one sided, bacon flavored version. And before you retreat to the “you aren’t making an argument against my argument” rhetoric, you might actually want to try making an argument yourself. You see, an argument is an attempt to convince others that your opinion is correct…you are failing miserably here. You see, alan, when you come to a site that is peopled by REAL men (the kind who actually think for themselves) you need to offer evidence that you didn’t glean from episodes of gangland or sons of anarchy. Here’s my suggestion: the next time you feel the need to express your obvious expertise about the MC world, go out and find a guy wearing rags and give him an ear full. I’m sure he would be willing to engage you in a spirited debate. Or, and here’s the better option, how about getting to know some actual bikers and finding out for yourself that they aren’t the monsters your public record paints them to be. After you’ve done that, come back and we’ll have a real debate. Otherwise, all you’re doing is spewing the usual propaganda, and that, alan, isn’t real debate.

    L&R to those who earned it,
    11c
    SOTSFFSOTS

  14. alan B'stard MP (@alanBStardmp) Says:

    we are not talking about fortune 500, as crooked as some may be

  15. Paladin Says:

    alan B’stard MP (@alanBStardmp) Said:
    February 7th, 2015 at 9:46 pm

    “In otherwords, you know your argument is fucked. I win you lose”

    Actually Alan, it’s you that lose. Since posting on this forum, you’ve proven beyond a reasonable doubt that you don’t have an original thought in your head. You parrot what others have written, never considering that what you’ve read might have been written with bias or by someone with an agenda, nor do you appear knowledgeable enough to comprehend that statistics can be skewed so as to reflect a writers point of view.

    Dear boy, criminality can be found from the board rooms of fortune 500 companies to the most foreboding of back alleys, but that doesn’t mean that everyone that inhabits the board room of a fortune 500 company or is found in a back alley is a criminal.

    When someone we admire falls victim to themselves, we voice our disappointment and move on. We move on because we understand that if we are to truly live life, it must be lived in the present, not in the past.

    If you’d stop your incessant wanking, you’d realize that there’s a whole world waiting to be explored that lays just beyond your flat’s front stoop. I realize you live on an island, but there’s still plenty to see and do.

    So alan B’stard MP, turn loose of your little cyclops with the turtle neck sweater, fling back your front door and sally forth. You’ll be glad you did, and so will we.

    Paladin

  16. alan B'stard MP (@alanBStardmp) Says:

    P-body

    No I just post facts, in video or text form. Truth is you don’t like it, so the easy way out is to call me a troll

    I post facts that HA, bandidos in Australia are middle eastern organized crime, easily verifiable. You don’t accept it

    Christie gets kids to sell drugs, and for that and perhaps other reasons, is out bad, we all know he is you don’t accept that

    Yves Trudeau got for years for trying to sodomize a 13 y o old boy, yet he is still a hero to you

    11 y o boy killed by flying shrapnel in Montreal when some idiot blew up the clubhouse. This is OK by you, these are great people you reckon

    These are gangsters, not bikers and the clubs don’t need them

    Even though the police and court records and OMG members stints in gaol prove it, you won’t agree simply cos you think I’m a troll, and you think LEOs are repulsive. Give me a break!

    you need your priorities to change

    When is it going to get through to you, and those like you, that the clubs don’t need these guys

  17. P-body Says:

    Shovelhead, I couldn’t agree more. I am a Blue collar biker biker from So. Cal, my only club affiliation is limited to poker runs. and open parties with good people. But I’m amazed by peoples perceptions, the general public who believe SOA and Gangland are documentaries. With strong opinions they know nothing about. I acknowledge and greet every biker I meet, 1% members to Hog “enthusiasts” and reserve investment and judgement (if any) until you know the man.

    That being said, WTF is a troll? I work for a major Railroad and I think a troll is like a derail. A derail is a mechanical mechanism that does just that, takes things off track. There can be a great thread going and then wham, you’re in the dirt and not going anywhere. This alan B sounds like the type that does that. The men are talking about honor, strength and integrity, and wham! We’re in the dirt and not going anywhere.

    It’s the same kind of disrespect you talk about. He’s like the ugly girl at a party not getting attention, starting shit. I doubt he’d talk that way to anyone without the anonymity of a keyboard. And LEO’s on the sight are as repulsive. Another coward behind a key board.

    P-body

  18. alan B'stard MP (@alanBStardmp) Says:

    Jim666 Says:
    February 7th, 2015 at 8:17 pm

    Rusty Says:
    February 5th, 2015 at 5:10 am
    We should all remember, in the end we are all ACCOUNTABLE for our own actions, ”

    LOLOL You think some members here have displayed that quality?

  19. alan B'stard MP (@alanBStardmp) Says:

    1c_infantry Says:
    February 7th, 2015 at 8:27 pm

    As soon as somebody says something like “it’s all part of the public record” that tells me everything I need to know.”

    In otherwords, you know your argument is fucked. I win you lose

  20. Wookiee Says:

    I have to admit to a certain degree of confusion and please understand nothing i am saying is intended to be disrespectful to anyone. I am not familiar with Mr. Christie s i have no long standing opinion on his character like some do. My confusion comes from what appears to be the surprise many on here have from the contentsof these tapes, but from what i have read and understood, it appears Mr. Christie,well qite frankly fucked up and likely comprimised his honor before this. I cometo this conclusion because of what history there is for him listed on this site, he was a 20 year PH for the HAMC and a Chapter P for most of that time and I believe he held another position of trust, he then steps out of the Club in Good standing but within a week is voted bad out with no contact, which i don”t believe happens because he forgot to put down the toilet seat, but that is Club biz for the reason and not seeking info on why, but from what I hae observes most people would not seem so fond of him even at that point. Then he is facing life in the grey bar hotel andyou all know that despite his status with 81 that any prostitutor would ne jizzing his jeans to parade a serious term conviction of someone with his rep and then he walks with a year stay and if i understood correctly all the info on his trial and sentencing are sealed tighter than a 90 year old nun. That all screams what my grandmother used to say “there’s a nigger in the wood pile” (don’t ask me what it means, all i know is that it is something bad).
    Maybe this a “if you have to ask, you wouldn’t understand” question, but to me it appears to be someone who has fallen from grace already, yet the amount of surprise and sadness confuses me, so p!ease help me understand

  21. 11c_infantry Says:

    As soon as somebody says something like “it’s all part of the public record” that tells me everything I need to know.

    L&R to those who earned it,
    11c
    SOTSFFSOTS

  22. Kanye Diggit Says:

    Just my two bit opinion.Maybe it’s not healthy after a certain age to put anyone on a pedestal.We all had tough guys in our neighborhoods that we looked up to and maybe tried to emulate.Definitely a good thing.Yeah it starts with finding out theres no Santa.easter bunny,bullshit doctors corrupt cops,backstabbing friends,the older you get the more cynical you get but I think ultimately its healthy if it leads to self-reliance and not counting on anyone but yourself.What you guys saw in George Christie I see in most of you guys that post here from Rebel on down.Stand up guys with brotherhoodself-respect, savvy,balls,humor,living by your own code of what it means to be a man.It would be an honor to sit down and have a drink with any one of you guys{except the trolls}.You guys have all the heroic qualities in spades.Hope that came out right.I mean it with nothing but respect.

  23. Jim666 Says:

    Rusty Says:
    February 5th, 2015 at 5:10 am
    We should all remember, in the end we are all ACCOUNTABLE for our own actions, be the man, be the brother you you have envisioned one should be

    Very well stated Rusty,

    “The greatest thing that I have learned,
    Is probably the most simplest thing any of us can learn.
    I am who I am.”

    SONNY BARGER

  24. rollinnorth Says:

    Time to ignore the ignorant trolls.

    Respect.

  25. Shovelhead Says:

    Alan Bitch,
    At least you know you’re the Troll….makes me laugh that you’re so clueless!

  26. Dr. Sardonicus Says:

    @ alan bastard:

    Whatever your opinion is about George Christie’s latest controversy, the fact is he was never arrested for, charged with, or convicted of “selling meth to kids” or ANYONE for that matter which is why you will never be able to provide documentation to back your statement because no record, public or otherwise exists sealed or unsealed because the events you describe never occurred.

    What the “HA need” or “don’t need” is a subject you have no business even mentioning under your breath to yourself much less on this board – which is a very open forum tolerant of nearly all viewpoints and opinions. But those that give such have earned the right to sit at the round table with their peers and associates for a myriad of reasons, the least of which is a measurable degree of discernment if even for the fundamentals – regarding this way of life.

    You may have the HAMC confused with the Kiwanis, Lions, Explorers or Knights of Columbus and George Christie with Edward G. Robinson
    as “Little Caesar”

  27. Wolfenlover Says:

    The BASTARD is from England & is found at some place called a TROLL HOUSE.
    Imagine that. He’ll fuckin’ “PICK YER SCABS” if ya let ‘im! Figure it out.
    I HAD to OUT Forever as Vince. That bastard was a SCAB to me. I’m a Veteran
    & this fuck claims shit he’s not due!
    FUCK ALL YOU WANNABE MOTHERFUCKERS!

  28. Freeman Says:

    Thanks for proving our point with your last post ya Lil bastard.

  29. alan B'stard MP (@alanBStardmp) Says:

    Shovelhead Says:
    February 7th, 2015 at 9:31 am

    Sieg,

    ” Call us crooks and lawbreakers. If you Trolls feel so strongly about how Evil we are, why don’t you say it to our face??”

    All on the public record ol chap. Court appearances and convictions are on the public record, like G C using kids to deal meth

    HA don’t need that shit

  30. Freeman Says:

    @ Paladin, Shovelhead

    Very well said, and i might add a lot of these trolls have deep psychological issues that need addressing, the internet offers a way for a lot of fucked up people to ”virtually” become (in their own mind) something they are not and know they never will be.

    These fools will try to educate you on the internet, but wont say anything to your face because they know THEY will get educated.

    There’s a saying in french, a beau mentir qui viens de loin, which translate like this, easy to lie when from afar.

  31. Paladin Says:

    Shovelhead Said:
    February 7th, 2015 at 9:31 am

    “Isn’t it funny how, when I’m out on the road, in restaurants, bars, grocery stores or just amongst the general public, not one Citizen has the balls to say anything derogatory to me, At least not to my face or within earshot.”

    Shovelhead,

    Trolls are not part of the general public. I’ve had comments made to my face, but I can’t recall any of them to have ever been derogatory in nature.

    There is a small, bitter segment of this Planet’s population that has never had the courage to live their lives any other way than how they’ve been told. In order to feel better about themselves, they throw stones at others, in a desperate attempt to feel better about the huge void in their own lives. These same people will always seek and point out the negative, no matter what the topic, it’s in their DNA

    I, like you (and I suspect others) that post on this page don’t visit other pages to disparage others. To do so is childish, classless and accomplishes absolutely nothing.

    I will defend the honorable that live this lifestyle, but I won’t defend the lifestyle. The biker / MC lifestyle doesn’t need defending. Those that live it, understand it. Those that don’t, never will.

    People have an innate fear of what they can’t understand. Those that are unable to counter their fear with reason, will lash out as Trolls.

    Long May You Ride,

    Paladin

  32. Whitepride Says:

    @Shovelhead. I agree. Couldn’t have said it any better!

  33. Shovelhead Says:

    Sieg,

    Isn’t it funny how, when I’m out on the road, in restaurants, bars, grocery stores or just amongst the general public, not one Citizen has the balls to say anything derogatory to me, At least not to my face or within earshot.
    But online, here in Rebels home, Trolls say all kinds of nasty shit. They throw out insults, disrespect honorable men. Call us crooks and lawbreakers. If you Trolls feel so strongly about how Evil we are, why don’t you say it to our face??
    They act like they know everything about Outlaws and the Biker lifestyle. Spewing out facts about George or Sonny when all they really do is look up shit online or watch some Gangland episodes.

    Just like Vietnam, you can watch all the movies you want, read all the books, talk to all the Veterans, but unless you were there, you don’t know shit!
    Hell, I’ve lived this lifestyle my whole adult life and I still don’t know everything about 1%ers or what they’ve done in the past. I just do my own thing and support my Brothers and friends.
    I don’t happen to like Hippies but I don’t go onto Hippie sites and start attacking everyone there. I don’t live that lifestyle nor give a rat’s ass what Hippies do. So why would I go there?
    Why do you Trolls come here? This lifestyle is really none of your business!

    Respect to 1%ers

  34. Bruka Says:

    “He was prepared to do time and keep his mouth shut until he was warned of the contract”

    It’s amazing the amount of “contracts” the pigs find out about, what a load of bullshit ! A rat is a rat and Jimmy D is a cheese eatin motherfucker

  35. rollinnorth Says:

    Indeed, Sieg.
    Of course, those are also the ones who know so much about club business.

    Resepct.

  36. Terra Says:

    It don’t read well and whatever Georges motives may have been it appears he may have compromised the title he claimed and the legacy that was his life up to that point. The nuts and bolts of it are he placed the family at risk by not being the visionary we credited him as .A wise man will do an internal stocktake appraise where he’s at by looking back looking forward and realising where you are now if it’s to hot in the kitchen change jobs Freedom like a bird in flight requires a lot of effort to remain aloft it’s called a constant it’s what George once had its called club the line was crossed when they discussing the bike You know who he got it from on ya bike George an hour half on tape is what your whole life will be measured on that’s gotta hurt

  37. Sieg Says:

    Pigs Posers & Provocateurs.

    And trolls.

  38. alan B'stard MP (@alanBStardmp) Says:

    Hi 11c_Infantry

    The problem Jimmy D had, was his Bros gave him up to the mob, to be killed for 10k. Bit of faction fighting in the pagans. No doubt as payback for Jimmy D roughing up the mob guys previously

    He was prepared to do time and keep his mouth shut until he was warned of the contract

  39. BigV Says:

    James Degregorio was a goddamn snitch who was never a Pagan, he was a goddamn lame who held a patch and a lot of good men tried to help him become a man, and a better man, and become worthy of wearing the patch he was entrusted to wear.

    James was never given up by any Pagans. James dealt drugs on his own time and kissed Philly mob ass and they gave him up.

    At a certain point, people fuck up, their fuck ups aren’t club business, their fuck ups hurt the brotherhood, and it becomes clear that the person holding a patch isn’t ever going to mature or grow into the man it takes to hold that patch and do it honor- that is a lame.

    Degregorio is and was a lame and always will be.

    Degregorio talks out both sides of his mouth, both nostrils, and his asshole too. He’s the expert witness who testified for Regans’s OC Taskforce Hearings in the Senate. He’s the one who made up shit on the spot, and caused any 16 in a van or wearing a black t-shirt to get put on file as a hitman or enforcer.

    As to the idiot commenter above’s other missive:

    Barger and Michael O’Farrell could have put their involvement on others. They didn’t. They were ready to do every year of 5 years of federal time in a cold ass KY or OH or PA Federal Prisons. Mr. O’Farrell died in a knifing, Mr. Barger did every day of his sentence like a goddamn man and he was nearly the same age as Gus and he was in worse health. Barger held his fucking ground, did his time.

    Barger never tried to get others to do his time. Period.

    Barger got pissed when brothers let brothers take the bag. This is ancient history and everyone mentioned is dead: There was a member of the 3rd Street Crew who had previously been called Gorilla or Ga-Ga before the 3rd Street Crew patched 81. There was also another 3rd Street Member who had gone off the reservation on drugs and was out of control and his road name was Gorilla, Gorilla Harwood. A girl either fell or was thrown off the top of the 3rd St Clubhouse, a loudmouth said “Gorilla” did it. They would have rather had Hurricane Vinny than Gorilla Harwood at that time, so they picked and choosed evidence and charged Hurricane Vinny aka Big Vinny aka Ga-ga aka Gorilla than Harwood. So they went after Hurricane and charged him when it was pretty well known that Harwood did it. Part of the fight that ended in medical complications that ended Hurricane’s life, was over the fact that Mother and its members didn’t want him to just lay down and take the hit, they didn’t want him to snitch, but they didn’t want him to confess or cooperate on something he clearly hadn’t done.

    Too bad Hurricane was such a good brother. James aka Gorilla aka Pinball Harwood and Ron Cheeseman did unimaginable damage to brothers in their own chapters and brothers in other clubs that they could finger for any random fucking act of bullshit.

  40. SpookyBoo Says:

    @Dr. Sardonicus, is there a way I can contact you.

  41. Wolfenlover Says:

    So where’s FOREVER, now that a true 81 supporter(Billy G.) has called him
    out? I’m hoping Billy G. does hook FOREVER’s jaw. Fuckin’ CON artist who’s
    bein’ searched for(Forever) Guess it’s time I look thru my old numbers
    HUH, FOREVER?! Might know some folk.

  42. rollinnorth Says:

    Trolls learn all sorts of things watching Gangland.

    Respect.

  43. 11c_infantry Says:

    Not making excuses for breaking the code, but it’s a damn shame that people can be entrapped and manipulated by LE into situations that force them to make horrible decisions. There needs to be serious reform in law enforcement circles. They need to police their own and make sure everyone is actually enforcing the law and not manufacturing criminals.

    And alan, gotta tell you Jimmy D was wrong…REAL brotherhood is anything but bullshit. As a wise man told me when I first entered this life, “The man makes the patch. The patch doesn’t make the man.” There are two kinds of members in most clubs: brothers and patch-holders. With brothers, brotherhood means everything. To patch-holders, brotherhood is a means to an end. If Jimmy D had said “Brotherhood is bullshit to patch-holders,” I’d tend to agree, but you have to keep in mind that brotherhood is bullshit to Jimmy D. He did, after all, decide to testify when he got busted. Probably not the best kind of person to quote in this world.

    L&R to those who earned it,
    11c
    SOTSFFSOTS

  44. alan B'stard MP (@alanBStardmp) Says:

    they all give each other up in the end. G C was wise to defend his family, put them first

    The Christie’s and Bargers of the world seem to let the ” soldiers ” take the load of gaol time ( jail for USA ) while they grab the goodies

    Jimmy D from Pagans MC was right. ” Brotherhood is bullshit “

  45. P-body Says:

    Rebel,

    I’ve really got to put my glasses on and finish my coffee before I post. I never meant to imply George was “friendly” with any LE we met by chance on Main St. Cordial and civil but never friendly. That was strange to me also, but I realize that was George being a leader. Any hostility, discourtesy or confrontational behavior would of given them a “reason” to harass any PH, Prospect or Known Associate.

    We weren’t sipping Lattes and doing needle point with Johnny law at Starbucks.

    Leadership, and family are heavy burdens on a man. I always felt George had the Sword of Damocles above him. Rebel acknowledges the lack of a “smoking gun”, but the tapes remain. I’m not going to Monday morning quarterback George. I still value his friendship and respect his wisdom and experience.

    Love the idea of approaching a club regarding any attempt to be compromised by LE. Neutralizes leverage, real or invented. I see LE as an enemy also, but I don’t get into fight’s I can’t win. Anyone remember the Conciliation Tribunals in South Africa?

    Austin, you broke my heart, As men we beat our chests and spew our bravado, little thought to the blow back suffered by family and friends. Superman couldn’t really fly. and Atlas eventually shrugged. our heros stumble, but our families are always picking up the pieces. God Bless them.

    P-body

    BTW, Rebel inspired use of the Lucinda Williams song.

  46. John Deaux Says:

    Panamaa
    Fortunately the only shoes I walk in are my own, if I soil em it’s my shit to deal with.
    In other words I agree completely with you.

  47. Paladin Says:

    Like others that post on this page, I have more years behind me than ahead of me. I have no “sagely advice” or “words of wisdom”.

    If I’ve learned anything in my sixty-five years, I’ve learned that each and every one of us must find our own way through the adventure of life.

    As for me? I’ve always done my level best to live my life in such a way, so as not to be shamed by my reflection.

    Long May You Ride (to those that deserve to),

    Paladin

  48. popeye Says:

    @ Al T Monte
    Thanks for yor response. Its no question George dishonored himself I was trying to find out if he dragged anyone down with him. I’m sorry to hear someone is doing georges time. Someone always has to pay the piper. The world has changed a lot over the years and the word brotherhood means much less when everyone is out for himself. I prefer a simpler time.

  49. panamaa Says:

    I can’t count the number of times I’ve read on the site “ Never snitch, never..” There have been whole post dedicated to the subject alone and many of the posters on this post have commented on them…

    I’m by no means pointing fingers, I have much respect for the regular posters on this site and have garnered great insight from your observations. But I have to ask, if this is true, how can one attempt justify this and condemn the other ?..

    Snitching is snitching….

    Much Respects………………

  50. bcnasty Says:

    @ Road Whore,
    do not forget if one fucks up even with others an honorable man does not name or indicate others. No matter what threat of prosecution. You caught me, I was alone. Deals always sound good but what is your honor worth. Or as dad taught us, take your ass whipping like a man.
    Respects,
    BC

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