Belt Drive Betty And The Iron Order

July 19, 2014

All Posts, News

Members and supporters of the Iron Order Motorcycle Club have been flaming this site for the last two weeks.

It isn’t the first time this has happened. The Aging Rebel’s coverage of the murders of John Lindeman and Brad Lutzow in Phoenix in February 2009 infuriated members of the Sober Riders Motorcycle Club as well. Although the tenor of the Iron Order complaints this time around has made the Sober Riders look like a convention of professional diplomats.

Many of the Iron Order comments have trashed Zach Tipton’s memory. One particularly memorable argument was that Tipton should have brought more than his fists to a gunfight. Over and over commenters have protested this page’s description of the homicide as a “murder.” The Iron Order supporters have replied that Tipton was shot by the still unidentified Iron Order prospect in the side of the head in “self-defense.” Multiple commenters have editorialized that the members of the American Outlaws Association will do nothing about Tipton’s murder beause there is nothing they can do. There have been numerous attacks on the quality of the journalism displayed here. The Iron Order as a group seems to think this page is written by an amateur ape who for some inexplicable reason has decided to attack their club.

Member Directory

All this trash talk abruptly stopped yesterday when, apparently, the Iron Order leadership became the last people in the world to know that an Iron Order “Member Directory” has been circulating for about two weeks. The roster lists the name, road name, chapter, address, phone number, email address and region of virtually all 3,816 Iron Order members and prospects from “Beer” Robinson to “ZZ Top” Carwhile. This page has used a copy of the directory to identify commenters.

Curiously, the member directory also notices which of its members are authorized to carry a firearm. For example, Ray “Izod” Lubesky, an International Officer of the club who lives in Valrico, Florida is authorized to carry. It strikes this page that this is a curious thing for a “law abiding motorcycle club” to catalog. Especially a law abiding club that actively provokes conflicts with all the “criminal” clubs. At the least, that suggests premeditated self defense. Which tortures the concept of self defense as Bill Clinton once tortured the concept of “is.”

The Iron Order Is An OMG

A lot of the Iron Order membership’s ire directed at this page has swirled around this page’s reporting of a fairly brief passage from an ATF report dated July 1, 2014.  The lede to that story read, “Although the Iron Order Motorcycle Club continues to advertise itself as a ‘law abiding motorcycle club’ the ATF is now categorizing it as an ‘outlaw motorcycle gang.’”

The exact passage quoted in the report follows:

“In southern and central Maryland, the Iron Horsemen MC is furious that the Iron Order continues to don a three-piece patch. In the past 2 months, there have been several bloody confrontations between the two. On February 28, 2014, both were involved in a melee at a strip club in Baltimore. Iron Horsemen members were equipped with bats, knives, MagLite flashlights and hammers. Even though nobody was killed, both OMGs suffered major injuries. One week later, as three Iron Order members were idling at a red light in Prince George’s County, they were viciously attacked by several car loads of suspected Iron Horsemen members. Two of the three Iron Order members were severely beaten with bats, ax handles and crow bars. The assailants were not wearing colors or indicia that depicted they were Iron Horsemen members, supporters or associates.

“The Iron Order is one of the fastest growing motorcycle clubs in the United States. Members wear a traditional three-piece patch with a State bottom rocker. The fact that they wear the State bottom rocker has infuriated the HAMC, Outlaws, Iron Horsemen, Pagans and Bandidos. More importantly, many of their members are police and corrections officers, active-duty military and/or government employees and contractors.

“Over the past 4 years, the Iron Order has had several violent confrontations with each of the aforementioned OMGs. Per the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS), in 2013, an Iron Order member was run off the road by a Bandidos member. In Clarksville, Kentucky, the Iron Order and Outlaws have been involved in several violent altercations. On May 14, 2011, HAMC South Carolina Nomads member William Sosebee stabbed an Iron Order member outside a bar in South Carolina. Despite the violence, they continue to move into territory controlled by one of the Dominant Seven.”

The passage was quoted accurately and the sentences that substantiate the lede are:

“Even though nobody was killed, both OMGs suffered major injuries.”


“More importantly, many of their members are police and corrections officers, active-duty military and/or government employees and contractors.”

Belt Drive Betty

Mostly, the criticism of this page has demanded that The Aging Rebel prove that the Iron Order is an OMG or outlaw motorcycle gang. Which is how a biker blogger (photo above) named “Belt Drive Betty” entered this information war yesterday.

Betty had previously written an undated Valentine to the Iron Order. You can read that blog entry here.

Yesterday, Betty published an entry titled “Outlaw Motorcycle Clubs & OMGs, attempting to get at the truth” in which she remarks, “The Iron Order MC has been on the receiving end of much wrath on the Aging Rebel blog.”

The Aging Rebel thinks Betty should at least identify this site correctly. Belt Drive Betty writes a blog on a blog site called “” The Aging Rebel is a news site published from two independent servers.

Betty sniffs, “There have been articles written by the Aging Rebel (sic) that make claims that this situation was somehow a murder.”

Belt Drive Betty and others should also note that the indefinite article “The” is part of the name of this site. It is The Aging Rebel, like it is The Associated Press.

Betty then attacks the journalism on this page as follows:

“Because of one of his recent articles Feds Talk About The Iron Order, where in the Aging Rebel claims that the Iron Order are (sic) now labeled (sic) an OMG by the ATF, I made a number of calls to the ATF and finally got through to a representative at the Public Affairs Office to have the referenced report verified.

“The gentleman I spoke to spent several days looking into this report and the veracity of the information on the Aging Rebel Blog (sic) with regards to this report.

“Here is what this spokesperson told me: The report that the Aging Rebel refers to and quotes from is a 40 page unclassified report.

“The spokesperson is not sure how the Aging Rebel came to be in possession of an emailed report that is meant for law enforcement personnel only. It is not meant for public consumption.

“The spokesperson also told me that the snippet that appeared on the Aging Rebel Blog was taken out of context in terms of the greater report and that the writer of the report made a small mistake in how the 2 groups were designated in his description of an altercation between an OMG and the OMC.

“He also expressed that the ATF does not designate who is an OMG and who is not, they simply deal with the violence that erupts as a result of the presence of any gang be they motorcycle related or street.

“He verified with other agencies that the Iron Order MC is NOT deemed to be an OMG.

“If you want to verify what I am writing here, you can do exactly as I did, call the Office of Public Affairs for the ATF  at (202) 648-8500.”

You can read Belt Drive Betty’s most recent blog entry here. 

The Aging Rebel stands by its coverage of the Tipton murder.

, , ,

150 Responses to “Belt Drive Betty And The Iron Order”

  1. panamaa Says:

    I forgot to add the link… This “chick” is a piece of work…

  2. panamaa Says:

    Old Drive Belt is soliciting funds like mad from her readers… Seems she got in involved in a lawsuit and is selling everything shes got including her bike to pay the lawyer… Could you, in your wildest dreams, image Rebel begging for money on this site,from his readers, because he got himself in a shit storm of his own doing..

    Maybe she should call the IO, I’m sure they would be glad to help her out.. Maybe she could make a little “side” money with them.. Oh wait, what I’m I thinking, she a chick.. I think…

    Good luck Drive Belt, funny how shit comes around, right?…

  3. Raven Says:

    Iron Order wants to be portrayed as 1%, for infiltration purposes…. Of course, they’re gonna play it opposite… Way too obvious, allies of law enforcement they are. Desire to be OMG they’ve gotten….Now, varoom varoom here comes hypocrisy to break laws and arrest others for doing the same…

  4. John Deaux Says:

    I live in a small rural community outside New Orleans and was home during and after Hurricane Katrina, martial law was in effect for quite some time. We were basically under siege for months; armed troops, personal carriers and federal alphabet organizations everywhere.
    I believe in being prepared, 6 months of every year is hurricane season though summer is the most active, for such things and generally can stay away from the invasion but it’s almost impossible to have no contact.
    Each contact can be quite educational, some truly want to help, others tell you what your doing wrong, others are looking for a reason to fuck with you.

  5. Sieg Says:

    When I first read “The Turner Diaries”, back in 1978 or 1979, I thought to myself, “self, this is really a cartoon-none of this could ever happen”.

    When I read the book again, maybe 1984 or so, I thought “self, a lot of this cartoon shit is starting to happen”.

    When I read the book again after Ok. City, I thought, “self, MOST of this shit has already happened”.

    Haven’t read it in years, but ya know, the only thing that hasn’t actually taken place yet is the passage of the Cohen Act, or the outlawing of firearms, and the revolution.

    Give it a few more minits.


  6. Paul Says:

    Well, they already got a test run with martial law in Boston and the people accepted it.

    I wish I could remember where, but there was a small riot when EBT cards developed a ‘glitch’, and the recipients couldn’t get their free stuff.

    My own personal experience during the Navy Yard shooting showed me that we could do nothing on a military base, while an outside agency could come in and shut us down.

    I feel like a conspiracy theorist, but little isolated incidents seemingly unrelated, look to have pattern when put together.

    That says nothing of media spin on issues, making people accept the gunning down of an unarmed woman (she crazy) or standing up for your land (he racist), which basically means that yes, it ain’t painful enough.

  7. Mojoman Says:

    Thank you phuquehead

  8. sherides Says:


    I am on the same page as you regarding the io and the Fed Beast.

    There’s something about this that also makes me wonder how much Dobyns may have been involved in the creation of the io. Afterall, he does have experience with fake clubs.


  9. Phuquehed Says:

    @Mojoman – Try here

    She found it using a search engine, probably google or yahoo or something like that.

  10. John Deaux Says:

    Glenn S.
    I believe your analogy of the situation is right on, the government is pushing for a reaction that gives them the excuse to impose martial law. Once that’s in place free travel as well as other rights will be shut down.
    We are in a situation where our representatives no longer answer to us. Our sovereignty is being handed to the u n, add the uncontrolled border crossings to the mix and here comes the North American Union.

  11. Glenn S. Says:

    StrategyisZen said: “…I think that this is because people high up in our country’s planning system (likely DHS), are predicting civil unrest…”

    I believe that statement explains a lot of what the government does and why, but I also believe that its not so much that they are predicting civil unrest, but that there are predictions AND plans in place that are guaranteed to create that unrest. We often speak about the citizenry’s willingness to take all the shit that the government dishes out without so much as a “baaaa” in protest, and the conventional wisdom here (which I agree with) is that it has not yet gotten bad enough for serious and meaningful response from the citizenry. I believe it will, indeed, get bad enough. Government officials at the policy level are not as stupid as I’d like to think they are, and I have no doubt that there are plans in place to counter the unrest. I believe that the MC/biker factors are but one variable that the government hopes to neutralize.

    Here’s one thing that crosses my mind: The iron order probably started out as a cop club that let the cop supporters in to gain numbers. But I also think that, at some point, they were co-opted, likely financed, by the alphabet agencies and tasked with going out and starting shit.

    Up until last weekend, I thought they were just a bunch of Barney Fife types and undercover pigs that wanted to live their roles that fucked up and killed somebody. I thought they’d likely fold soon, the leadership has a weak public face and they just didn’t seem like a bunch to be taken very seriously. Then I saw one riding alone on the interstate and, the next day, 2 states away, a large enough number of them to be taken very seriously. I hate to say it, but they carried themselves with apparent confidence and competence. It would have taken a serious effort to make them go away. And, methinks, that was the idea, to provoke a serious effort.

    It also occurs to me that they are seeking the “OMG” designation, that the recent barely hidden references to them as such in government documents were meant for widespread distribution, both to co-opt and weaken the present designation in the eyes of the street and to confuse the citizenry, who will characterize their attrocities as the work of “OMGs”.

    Again, just my cent and a half.

  12. Mojoman Says:

    Does anyone have link to this membership directory for the iron order? I would like to view that and see who in my area is in the local brown shirts.

  13. John Deaux Says:

    O S
    Hell of a world we live in, there was a particularly gruesome murder last year that as evidence was
    released the tracking system came to light.
    A couple picked up a dancer on Bourbon, there are cameras everywhere on Bourbon so there’s several shots of them leaving together, the dancer was missing for a day or 2 when body parts started floating on to a Ms. beachfront. The dancer was identified by a couple tattoos she had.
    The cameras along side I 10 tracked a car going to and returning from Ms, about 60 miles, at the approximate time of the crime. The car was owned by the girl in the Bourbon St. pics, they are both awaiting trial.
    I roll that stretch of hwy often and usually keep my eyes out for such things but never notice them. I guess they could be in the street lights.
    Big brother is watching.
    Much respect.
    FTF. FTP. FTW.

  14. Wookiee Says:

    Actually I thought ol’ Chuck there must have posted from his family reunion and was giving us his thoughts on what he saw before him

  15. Docb Says:

    Hey Chuck
    You haven’t visited Kentucky yet have you!?

    Louisville KY

  16. Oldskewl Says:


    They have them mounted to patrol cars in Calif and they are able to sit on top of fwy’s and monitor everyone. The system can tell them if your insurance and registration is current and if the owner of the vehicle has any warrants.
    Even the local PD has a unit with that on it. They say, as the equipment becomes cheaper they will outfit more cars.



  17. Chuck Says:

    I haven’t seen more white trash, toothless idiots in one place in all my life.

  18. John Deaux Says:

    To who it may concern
    It has recently come to my knowledge that Interstate 10 east of New Orleans, La has license plate recognition cameras, they run at least to the Ms state line. They can and do track movement though I’m unsure to what extent.
    Proceed with caution.
    FTF. FTP. FTW.

  19. Tooj Says:

    @Stevo, if that is the case, it sure is going to defeat all that facial recognition tech being bought up.

  20. panamaa Says:

    UnaffiliatedObserver; OK, We will consider you average and stupid

  21. UnaffiliatedObserver Says:

    Paladin Said:
    July 25th, 2014 at 10:56 pm

    “With rare exception, law enforcement isn’t held accountable for its actions. Ruby Ridge, Waco, the standoff at the Bundy Ranch are the bigger abuses that come to mind.”

    I agree with you, but if I wanted to convince an average person, I would rely on federal precedents rather than events that have had widespread media coverage.

    The average person “knows” that Randy Weaver is a racist, that David Koresh was an insane child molester, and that Cliven Bundy is an ignorant, racist hick stealing public property.

    It matters little that all of that is inaccurate.

    “There are more City, County, State, and Federal law enforcement personnel in this Country than in any other place on the planet. The simple truth is that there isn’t enough legitimate crime to around. To solve this horrific shortage, law enforcement fabricates crimes that would never exist without them.”

    I also agree with this. There are numerous decisions approving the fabrication of crime, and the facts recited in those cases would provide an education for most people.

    “So far, your posts on this site typify the mentality of the average citizen. You nor they understand what’s going on and you nor they really care because at this point, it doesn’t impact your lifestyle or the life you live.”

    I’ll take that as a compliment.

    Life is about choices, and the choices I make today differ considerably from choices I’ve made in the past. I find that my life today is less stressful because I choose to avoid interaction with law enforcement more or less completely. That doesn’t mean I don’t know what it is.

    In the last interaction I had with law enforcement, the sheriff knocked on my door to ask me if I had any concerns about local enforcement during his campaign for reelection. That was a little surreal.

    I also don’t interact with people I’ve known in the MC world any more, but that is more a matter of geography than a specific choice.

    When I make statements that are not based on personal first-hand knowledge, I am very careful to draw that distinction. There is good reason that I make that distinction, and you’ll find that I rarely say things based on first-hand knowledge.

    I do not exert effort to conceal my identity, and it wouldn’t take Rebel long to figure out who I am. I also assume he has the connections to find various records.

    With all of that said, please feel free to consider me average and stupid. It will work out better for everyone.

  22. Stevo Says:


    Beards and hats will never be banned while a muslim is in the White House.


  23. Tooj Says:

    VERY interesting Mag, since it’s being installed everywhere.

    Considering the ATF approaches, it may not be uncommon to see a government supported kilo of cocaine sitting in the middle of a town square. What for? To incarcerate the first person that touches it. How? We got it all on camera and your “intention” to return it to the cops and get it off the street wasn’t recorded, just you “possessing” it.

    Pretty soon, you just get used to ignoring everybody and everything out of personal safety. What a scary fucking idea.

    The wearing of hats and beards by men are about to become prohibited.

  24. Mag Says:

    This is interesting:

    I predict honey traps will be a major 4GW methodology.

  25. Mag Says:

    @Paladin – excellent points, well stated.

    The inability of the stupid who are possessed of State power to tell the difference between forbearance and incapacity, leads directly to their failure to tell the difference between a drought and a pre-tsunamic pullback.

    Ruby Ridge woke people up. Waco confirmed and resolved them. Viewing the Bundy event as isolated in response or atypical of trend is an existential mistake on the part of the tyrants who think that short term public memory is the only kind. It isn’t. It’s just the most familiar to them.

  26. StrategyIsZen Says:

    Someone once gave me the Sun Tzu book. I then realized that Sun Tzu is taught in every military college. I think that IO is somehow supported by government, and I think it’s along the lines of “COINTELPRO.2.” It’s diffuse asymmetrical disruption.

    I live in a place that has long had an adversarial relationship, with the three letter agencies. A lot of what is said, at street level, is the government seeks to control anything it views as competition. Some people think that it’s literally *economic* competition between the people, and the state itself.

    Basically, the state, has slowly become a huge criminal organization. It steal trillions, from people. But someone who jaywalks, gets jailed.

    I also agree that the IO is trying to be like the club that Putin’s rides with. I think that this is because people high up in our country’s planning system (likely DHS), are predicting civil unrest. This is because of a global economic disruption that is happening, and will happen. Or whatever the reason, it could be one of a thousand things, and when the people of a country are not happy, bad things (or good, depending how one sees it) just happen.

    They are trying to create a strike force to counter this.

    There is also a concept, that entire government/economic systems, literally CAN become evil. In my personal opinion, our government/industrial system, in America, has become basically communist/socialist at this point. It is all about what Bastiet called “plunder.” It’s a moral sin, for a state system to take from the people, via violence.

    I say this as someone who really likes Tom Joad. I think, at the end, it’s all about social class. The rich are simply getting richer, and they need prisons and made up crime, to keep the rest of us from throwing them out.

    Just theories. Just my two cents. And much respect.

  27. Paladin Says:

    UnaffiliatedObserver Said:
    July 25th, 2014 at 8:43 pm

    “If the IO really is a law enforcement play, I think they are the losers in the long run.”

    History has shown that law enforcement in general doesn’t care about the long run. With rare exception, law enforcement isn’t held accountable for its actions. Ruby Ridge, Waco, the standoff at the Bundy Ranch are the bigger abuses that come to mind. I can’t even begin to count the number of needless deaths at the hands over zealous, incompetent, law enforcement personnel and their agencies.

    Law enforcement relies heavily on the general public’s short term memory. When found culpable in a civil action, monies are paid, everyone goes away, and it’s back to business as usual. Because the mindset never changes, the results are always the same.

    There are more City, County, State, and Federal law enforcement personnel in this Country than in any other place on the planet. The simple truth is that there isn’t enough legitimate crime to around. To solve this horrific shortage, law enforcement fabricates crimes that would never exist without them. Judge Real recently dismissed an ATF fabricated case, as did Judge Ferenbach.

    So far, your posts on this site typify the mentality of the average citizen. You nor they understand what’s going on and you nor they really care because at this point, it doesn’t impact your lifestyle or the life you live.

    If the standoff at the Bundy ranch and its implications weren’t enough to get and keep your attention, then the following applies to you and others like you.

    I see stupid people. They walk around like other people. They don’t see each other. They only see what they want to see. They don’t know they’re stupid. They’re so stupid the birds peck them. Stupid people, they’re everywhere.


  28. UnaffiliatedObserver Says:


    It isn’t exactly self deprecation. If I am speculating, I will make that plain. If I say something more substantial, I won’t back away from it.


    If the IO really is a law enforcement play, I think they are the losers in the long run.

    Granted, the provocation will probably get them a few convictions, but having cops running around pretending to be 1% bikers on a large scale is just foolish. It will tarnish their own image while degrading the “biker menace” as a credible threat.

    I’ve always said that any facts that can be explained by either conspiracy or stupidity were most likely driven by stupidity. IO might be one of those rare cases where the conspiracy is also just plain stupid.

  29. Paladin Says:


    As long as anyone can remember there has been an adversarial relationship between law enforcement and most MCs. To this day, law enforcement has never been able to eradicate, control, or contain what they perceive as the “OMC or MC menace”.

    Russia’s Putin uses his State sanctioned Night Wolves MC as an extension of his control. Law enforcement in this Country may be using the io in a similar fashion. What better way to entrap MCs than baiting them into altercations with a group that taunts and provokes them? What group would purposely go out of their way to put themselves in a situation where the chances of them coming into a physical confrontation with a recognized and respected MC are 100%, without having the backing of law enforcement?

    If what some suspect is in fact true, it places traditional MCs between a rock and a hard place. If the traditional MCs don’t confront the io interlopers, the message sent is: Start your own three-piece patch club with a State bottom rocker. We did it, so you can too! If the traditional MCs do confront and physically challenge the io interlopers, they risk incarceration.

  30. FF Says:

    @Doctor S


    Good to see you posting!

  31. Tooj Says:

    There is self depreciating which is more related to financial value over time, and in this case, who is performing that task.

    Then there is self deprecating which is tending to undervalue oneself or to be excessively modest.

    I can only wonder if either applies?

  32. UnaffiliatedObserver Says:


    I have nothing better than observation and speculation regarding relationships that may or may not exist between IO and law enforcement.

    I’ve read elsewhere on this site that Rebel believes IO lists active ATF agents as members, and I consider his opinion orders of magnitude better informed than my own. IO also openly includes former law enforcement.

    In that scenario, I would think IO would be able to effectively create whatever relationship they needed with law enforcement at the time such relationship became necessary. In a case like the shooting of Zach Tipton, former LEOs could promptly facilitate communication to influence the outcome of the “investigation”. Active LEOs, provided that their employers approved, could be even more effective in that regard.

    The question I still have on IO is whether any benefit to law enforcement that IO is able to generate by provoking crime and violence actually outweighs their attempts to dilute MC imagery.

    From what I’ve seen, law enforcement gets a thrill up the leg when given an opportunity to chase “bad guys” who actively brand themselves as outlaws. The IO wears three piece patches while trumpeting their law enforcement connections and law abiding nature.

    Nuance and shadow tends to confuse simplistic notions of good & evil or black & white.

  33. panamaa Says:

    I find it amusing and scary that every single prospect listed on that roster is licensed to carry a firearm. Seems at the time they were gearing up for something..

    Oh wait, no, what the fuck I’m I thinking, that can’t be. Seeing is how ol’ ipod and the rest of the gang are so law abiding and such…


  34. slycechyx Says:

    I briefly scanned her blog drivel. I did notice she mentions riding to HOT. I’m shamed to think she is a fellow HOG officer.

  35. One Eye Says:

    @Bystander: I don’t always post on THE Aging Rebel, but when I do it is to apprise an idiot that if you Google THE Associated Press it will appear as THE Associated Press. Stay ignorant, my delusional one. FYI, there have been outlaw clubs in Canada for decades. Going back to the 60s there have been countless clubs such as Satan’s Choice, The Popeyes, Black Diamond Riders, The Lobos, etc., etc., etc. Ignorance really is not bliss, it’s just fucking ignorant.

  36. Dr. Sardonicus Says:

    After reading Amy White’s comments I find myself for the first time in my life feeling sorry for cancer cells, specifically the ones that have been condemned to reside within her DNA. If they possessed the consciousness of self-awareness they would probably look forward to chemotherapy visits as the only relief from the constant barrage of excruciatingly befuddled punditry that emanates from Ms. White’s cerebral cortex.

  37. Sieg Says:

    The list that I have seen contains 3816 names, and was created on 22 November 2013.


  38. Phuquehed Says:

    It can be found in torrents also. Got mine that way. It even says what Rebel said about it, that it’s age is unknown.

  39. Paladin Says:

    I looked up this list. It’s nothing more than a membership roster. There is nothing on this roster that delineates LE from non-LE members. I actually stumbled across this list on the Internet.

    If one was to know who was and wasn’t LE, on that roster and only posted the LE members information, that could be viewed as prejudicial and might possibly raise the question of malice.

    The reality is that the information next to the names on that list can be had for a fee, on any number of websites found on the Internet.

    Long May You Ride (to those that deserve to),


  40. Rusty Says:

    Well damn, know ya done went and figured it out,,,,,,,,

    Amy said;
    “No. You are all too damned worried i might hang curtains in your little tree house”.

  41. popeye Says:

    I did look it up as suggested and have passed it on. In the 80’s I had a friend who worked at the DMV look up a DEA agent who was giving me problems. His info was flagged and she lost her job. I would prefer not to draw unwanted attention my way. Other than that I have no problem

  42. JAFO Says:

    I don’t see what your problem is with this list. You have been told twice where to find it. Go there. Open it. Do what you want to with it from there.


  43. panamaa Says:

    Rebel/ John,
    Very insightful and I agree 100%. And thank’s for the offer Rebel but I acquired the list a while ago…

    Respects to all who speak the truth………

  44. John Deaux Says:

    I think she took the remote when she snuck in…
    Hell man I don’t know about the legality of posting it but considering the bullshit it could bring into your world is definitely worth considering.
    As Rebel posted it’s probably not the most current and let’s not forget there are feds on that list. If they weren’t looking at you before they definitely will be after, not to mention the just plain crazy cops, we regularly see them killing those they don’t like with no repercussions.
    It’s supposedly a free country, you know 1st, 2nd, 5th ammendments and all but in truth that’s no longer applicable. All they have to do now is use the term domestic terrorist along side your name and your world turns to shit.
    I don’t live in fear of the blue gang but I don’t go out purposely attracting their attention either.
    That’s the best answer to your question I have and it’s only my opinion on the matter so take out of it what you will, stay safe.

  45. Rebel Says:

    Dear panamaa,

    As far as I know, it would be legal to publish the membership list but there are multiple problems with doing that. First, the roaster is a Microsoft spread sheet and the port to something that might appear on this page is probably more trouble than it is worth. Second, I believe the list is at least six months old and it contains the names of men who are no longer affiliated in any way with the Iron Order. So anyone who might be named on the list MIGHT have a reason to sue me. Probably not, because the way around that is to simply identify the roster as an old list which is factually true. But I think it is borderline unethical to run the list knowing that it contains the names of men who are trying to separate themselves from the IO. Finally, I don’t know how crazy the general membership of the IO is. I really don’t have a sense of that yet. So, if there is some sanity in this club I don’t want to lump the rational members in with the deluded.

    If you want a copy let me know.


  46. Sieg Says:

    Well, I know that many people and orgs have this list, FWIW. Maybe Rebel would see fit to post it, but I don’t have any clue what his liabilities would be if he did.

    In the meantime, If you’d like to get me e-mail from Rebel, I’ll see if I can find ya a copy.

  47. panamaa Says:

    John Deaux;

    I have a Comment/ question.

    Is it illegal to post the membership page? It seems to me it’s public knowledge now that it has been posted on an open, public forum. What could they (the OI-LE) really do about it other than bitch..

    Wikileaks, for example, releases documents that are given to them which, in turn, they leak to the press.. The press has yet to have any successful litigation brought against them… Please enlighten me if I’m off base here, I may not understand the whole picture…

  48. John Deaux Says:

    I’m not overly computer savy so if this question is foolish forgive me but ; can’t a public computer say as in a library that has open access, no content filters, be used ? Download to a cheap thumb drive you paid cash for at a high volume merchandiser, upload thru the public system then walk away ? Doing so thru several, many, locations seemingly assures atleast one goes thru.
    I understand the possibility of cameras catching a shot of you somewhere but there’s not many places left that it’s not a possibility. Thoughts, comments ?

  49. popeye Says:

    You lost me somewhere after turn on your computer. I’d like to see these guys names posted in the light of day but lack computer skills to do it safely. I think countersurvelience would level the playing field a bit. Its hard for IO keyboard commandos to mouth off when you know where they live. I’m sure many of their members would up and quit when faced with a real world mud check. This list should be available to every club

  50. panamaa Says:

    John Deaux;

    Pass over that damn remote when you find it…. I’m in need of it also…

Leave a Reply