The Iron Order Murder Investigation

July 9, 2014

All Posts, Features, News

Jacksonville Beach, Florida Police Department Liaison Officer Sergeant Tommy Crumley issued a press release yesterday intended to clarify “a great deal of misinformation circulating in the public” regarding the homicide of Black Pistons patch holder Zachariah Tipton outside Nippers Beach Grille last month.

Multiple attempts by The Aging Rebel to obtain a copy of the release from Crumley were ignored. This morning Crumley was not answering his phone and his voice mailbox was full. But published and televised accounts in Jacksonville suggest that Crumley really did issue a press release and apparently it was intended to discredit this page’s coverage of the case.


According to television station WJXT:

“Among the misinformation, police said the shooter is not and has never been a law enforcement officer.”

“‘To the best of our knowledge, no one directly involved in this incident is or ever was a law enforcement officer,’ Sgt. Thomas Crumley wrote in a news release. ‘This was a dispute between members and/or associates of two motorcycle clubs that ended in violence. The deceased was struck by one round and died as a result of that wound.’”


Crumley’s statement immediately raises more questions than it answers, the most obvious of which is who Crumley thinks the shooter might be. Multiple sources, speaking on condition of anonymity – because although it should be obvious to everyone that what we report on around here is the motorcycle outlaw frontier not the House Committee on Roller Skating so some sources put themselves in legal or physical jeopardy by talking about what they know; that’s why the sources tend to be anonymous; but apparently that is not obvious – the Iron Order member or prospect who confessed to shooting Tipton in the head in “self defense” was not the actual shooter.

When this page asked Crumley last month whether the confessed shooter’s hands had been bagged and tested for gunshot residue the Liason Officer took the fifth and then delivered a rude lecture beginning with the words, “I don’t know how you do things in Los Angeles but down here….”

The second obvious question is what Crumley thinks the definition of “law enforcement officer” is. Sources have indicated to this page that they believe the shooter or the confessed shooter was a former local area cop. It is impossible to know whether Crumley thinks military policeman, uncover ATF agents, undercover ATF Tactical Field Officers and paid Confidential Informants, SOIs and other government agents provocateur are law enforcement officers. In fact, because Crumley communicates in a manner that is a kind of a cross between a Papal Bull and the Turing Test, it is impossible to judge whether he is even telling the truth at all. He is under no obligation to be truthful. Police routinely lie as a matter of investigative strategy and as a matter of “perception management.”

Crumley’s carefully worded statement that, “The deceased was struck by one round and died as a result of that wound” sounds sophistical. His statement may be very literally true. If Tipton was shot, say three times it is possible to truthfully say that he was struck by a bullet and that bullet strike as opposed to other bullet strikes was the fatal wound.

This page has been told and finds it reasonable to believe that four shots were fired, three or four of those shots struck Tipton in the face or head and one of those shots, the fatal shot was a shot to Tipton’s temple.


In the first, real, local journalism in the case so far, Derek Gilliam of the Florida Times-Union interviewed Zach Tipton’s mother. “Glynda Purdy said her son, Zach, was shot twice in the head,” Gilliam wrote. “She said a doctor told her that. Purdy said the gunshot wounds were behind his ear and another one to the temple. She’s angry and wants her son’s killer to face justice.”

Purdy’s account of the fight in which her son died was that: “The people left and came back and Zach was shot execution style. It doesn’t matter if they were policemen or not.”

You can read the Times-Union piece here.

The Iron Order

The Man who killed Zach Tipton was unquestionably affiliated with the Iron Order Motorcycle Club. The Iron Order was founded by a Secret Service agent as a law enforcement motorcycle club which should be obvious from the name. Most clubs, like the Iron Pigs – one of whose members shot a Hells Angel in the Loud American Roadhouse in Sturgis about six years ago – or the Iron Brotherhood – whose members beat-up a Moctezuma’s bar patron named Justin Stafford in Prescott about a year ago – are motorcycle clubs that exist for and admit police officers, prison guards, parole agents and bounty hunters.

The Iron Order loosened its membership requirements to include civilians in order to grow its membership as rapidly as possible. The Iron Order’s foundation myth states that it “was started by a few hardcore bikers in a garage on July 4, 2004.”

There are persistent rumors that the Iron Order includes ATF agents although The Aging Rebel hasn’t been able to verify that. It is a fact that the Iron Order now has about 3,800 members which is much larger than any other motorcycle club in the world with the possible exception of the Vietnam Vets/Legacy Vets MC.

The Iron Order has recruited heavily among active duty and recently discharged members of the military. It is attractive for men who want to “play biker” because compared to other three piece patch motorcycle clubs it is relatively easy to join. Consequently most clubs view the Iron Order as soft. A recent anecdote, which may be apocryphal, illustrates that: A patch holder in a one percenter club in one of the Gulf states took a club prospect to a gathering of about a hundred Iron Order members. The patch holder told the prospect to pick one and beat the hell out of him.


However, as the club has grown it has become increasingly confrontative. A comment made on this page today, by an Iron Order supporter serving aboard the aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt who identified himself as “Joey666” illustrates the careless and childish mindset of Iron Order supporters:

“Let me take a second to soak this BS in,” Joey666 begins. “A bunch of criminals and sheeple are upset because a certain MC doesn’t want to obey and follow rules created by a bunch of people who don’t follow societies rules and disrespect another man’s right to be free and do as he pleases? A lot of the 1%ers I meet are a bunch of pussies and won’t man up unless they are with their “brothers!” I’m active duty military who obeys the law of the land and I have plenty of friends who are cops, fire fighters, and veterans who are more of a man than most 1%ers. In my book there is no greater honor than to serve your community and I get pissed when people talk shit. Sure you will always have bad cops, but the majority are good guys who will look the other way for minor infractions and come to the aid to those in need. If you think snorting Meth or Coke, trafficking guns and drugs, robbing and stealing from people, and enjoy disrespecting and mistreating women then an Outlaw club is for you. I myself would have killed all four BPs without losing any sleep. He has grounds for self defense and sure shooting someone four times is excessive but let’s see how you feel when you get cheap shoted and then have 4 guys rushing you. The adrenaline is pumping and you have to protect yourself so in all reality he used pretty good restraint. Also BPMC is a well known support club for the Outlaws and proudly wear that “black diamond”. It’s like knowing you have a known murderer attacking you and you will do what it takes to protect yourself and your friends. You guys say man up and fight like a man but it takes four guys to beat up two people? How is this being a man? I am so sick of social rejects talking shit. How about for once you guys go make money the honest way and respect every man’s inherent right to exist and be free to do whatever he wishes as long as he isn’t violating anyone’s rights.”

The Biker Menace

What Joey666 and most Iron Order members and supporters seem not to care about, is that belonging to a motorcycle club like the Black Pistons is a way of being a man. Motorcycle clubs exemplify what the late Tim Hetherington called “Man Eden.” The social dynamics of outlaw clubs are most analogous to the social dynamics of men in combat. It is one of the few opportunities in modern life in which men may unabashedly love one another. The connection between combat veterans and motorcycle clubs explains why these clubs appeared after World War II, why new clubs formed and membership surged during and after Vietnam, and why club membership is growing now.

Brand name motorcycle clubs like the Hells Angels, the American Outlaws Association, the Warlocks and others have had to learn to mostly peacefully coexist since the Supreme Court’s Turkette decision in June 1981 – a new case law precedent that was first applied to prosecute Hells Angels in what at the time was a very hot and nasty biker war waged between the Angels and the Mongols Motorcycle Club.

“Life is hard,” one of George V. Higgins characters explains in The Friends of Eddie Coyle. “But it’s harder when you’re stupid.” The Iron Order, for reasons that are not yet entirely clear, deliberately tries to provoke members of other motorcycle clubs into doing something stupid.

The motorcycle club world follows a general protocol that arranges clubs into a hierarchy. Big, preeminent clubs make the rules for all the smaller clubs. One of the most basic of those rules is that each club shall wear distinct insignia, or as prosecutors call it, indicia. The Iron Order came out of the gate wearing black and white which brought them into immediate conflict with the American Outlaws Association whose members wore black and white long before there was an Iron Order. Outlaws hold their insignia with the same regard that patriots hold the American flag. Members of motorcycle clubs, as part of their code of honor, are compelled to fight for their insignia. The Iron Order has been contemptuous of the Outlaws’ sensitivities.

To join an outlaw motorcycle club is to cross a vast desert and find one’s own tribe. Joining a club doesn’t necessarily mean that the club comes to totally dominate one’s life but it is a life changing event. A member of a motorcycle club literally cannot refuse to defend his club’s insignia without losing all of the best friends of his life. The Iron Order is broadly seen as a mockery of that way of being a man.


The Iron Order has gone out of its way to try bully other clubs by exploiting its close relationship with police forces around the country. There are numerous examples of Iron Order club officers writing to police departments to explain that their club is a “law abiding club.” Then after arbitrarily claiming the moral, or at least legal, high ground Iron Order members go out of their way to provoke conflicts with members of more established clubs in order to get their adversaries to commit a crime like assault which the Iron Order then vigorously prosecutes.

For example, within the last year an Iron Order club officer relentlessly taunted a member of a one percenter club, invited the outlaw to a particular place at a particular time, showed up, got punched to the ground and then clung to the outlaws’ leg and screamed “I’m lawfully detaining you for the police!”

Let’s Meet Cgar

The author of this weird, passive-aggressive style of settling differences seems to be the Iron Order’s current International Sergeant at Arms, 44-year-old Lieutenant Colonel Michael “Cgar” Crouse. Crouse is currently assigned to the U.S. Army Reserve Command at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. In tape recorded and written statements, Crouse comes across as a stupid bully. In one conversation to which The Aging Rebel gained access, Crouse stated “I know our club has the advantage. One percenters won’t call the cops. So what the fuck, destroy any fucker that confronts you. It’s a free ticket….”

Crouse is a former military policeman who hasn’t hesitated to use his privileged access to classified and confidential information to harass and intimidate people he sees as enemies of his motorcycle club. Crouse used his military position to identify an Army Reserve member who was the author of a Facebook page critical of the Iron Order.

“Hello Dan,” the Army officer told the Facebook author’s voice mail. “This is you buddy Cgar again. Nope, I didn’t waste no money looking for your phone number again. Not one bit. You used to be military, right? You used to be at Fort Benning, right? Correction. For Polk, right? Yeah. We got connections. Just tell me where you’re at, man.  (Unintelligible) will meet you. (Unintelligible.) Guess what, homey. You run a good mouth. Let’s see what you can do.”

“Hey Dan. This is Cgar again,” Crouse begins another message that is clearly intended to intimidate his club’s critic. “Thanks for the compliment. I appreciate you saying my asshole’s tight. That must mean you’re in love with me. That’s so cute of you. I’ll tell you what. You post on there (the Facebook page) where and when you want someone to meet you and I’ll arrange it for you. Missed you at the (unintelligible) event yesterday. There were a bunch of guys there looking for you. Looking for (unintelligible) and some other guys. It was cool. How about you tell me where you’re at and I’ll send somebody down there to meet you, too. In person and not over the phone.”

“Hey Dan. No need to hang up on me. I know who you are. Got your phone number. Know where you work at. Listen, you want to meet with some Iron Order members? Answer the phone when I call you back and I’ll schedule a place where you can meet ‘em. That way you can talk big in front of ‘em rather than on a Facebook page. It might be a lot better for you and a lot better for us to do that in person. Instead of writin’ stuff on the internet bein’ an internet keyboard commando. I’ll be callin’ you back later on today again. And again tomorrow. And the next day. Okay? Maybe eventually you’ll answer the phone.”

The transcription of these harassing messages hardly does justice to Crouse’s mocking tone. But even the bare words suggests an explanation of how Zach Tipton happened to cross paths with the still anonymous Iron Order member who shot him in the head and killed him.

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141 Responses to “The Iron Order Murder Investigation”

  1. Streetglide Says:

    Danny Green coulda fixed this in a heartbeat…

  2. Austin Says:

    @Jeff Diamond. – Yes – Instantly – I don’t know what happened but I do know the description of the injuries and the description of the events do not correlate.

  3. FF Says:


    I understand the point you were making. ;)

    I’m not one for the “pile on”. Kapisch? peace.

  4. Jim666 Says:

    Just a note it may not belong here but his name has been mentioned a few times on this post, David Burgess is no longer a member of 81 and does not associate w/ the club, thank you

  5. Big Jim, Whittier Says:

    Rebel your site is well read by people high up in the 1% world. I have been asked to limit comments. No inviting anybody to anything{OC Vago] I say asked, the only people that told me what to do were Jimmy Casino or Big George Yudzeich and that was how many toes to cut off using a bolt cutter of the Fuckers that owed money. This is not a comment but a question If you had to put a number on all of 1% world how many. As far of thanking a Vet. I say no problem, I will have a double JD with a beer back. and your welcome and even smile

  6. panamaa Says:

    Go after the fuckers (The IO) with a wrongful death lawsuit, that will fuck em up for a while. Beside the cost they would incur, the publicity would expose them for what they are…..

  7. Shovelhead Says:

    There must be a big turn over in the IO with all those pigs as members. Cops are rats, that’s what they do for a living, that’s who they are. They must rat each other out all the time!

  8. Freeman Says:

    Till then we’ll continue being lonely and law abiding. ??? I would not call murder law abiding. One can see why you are lonely however.
    Don’t care what other clubs think of you? Well what about the general populace?
    Yes….the ones of us that believe you are not important enough to murder our sons and daughters and get away with it.

    Mind your own business? Oh? Like on the evening of June 26 2014???

    We are veterans, active duty military, construction workers, truck drivers, businessmen, cops, feds, cooks, …
    My son was a good cook….not that any of the many things he did will ever matter to any of you. I see what you are comprised of. Better than? Right? No wrong.

    Here’s a good one…core values. You surely must not know what values are. The taking of a life is as bad as it gets…well other than covering it up…that is even worse.

    I could go on. There will be a time when God punishes your sins. I just hope that those responsible for this find out very soon how un-invincible you really are as you face God,’s special punishments.

    By the way whoever wrote your intro page sounds like an immature jackass. Also all attitude anger and absolutely no core values or heart.Guess who I’m talking about…and to???

    – zach tipton’s mother

  9. panamaa Says:

    Finally an unbiased news story from a Jacksonville paper…,10285

  10. donny1020 Says:

    Just knowing they let cops and zips,(military officers) in is enough for me. I had a buddy when I was in that had a pig that he used to beat with a pair of kackies every day to get it conditioned to hate officers. I think they did the same thing to me metaphorically speaking.

  11. DesertH-D Says:

    Had a hell of a nice ride, enjoying this hot weather. Hope some of y’all got to do the same this weekend.

    @Paladin – I didn’t take your post as an attempt at starting a fight. Just a little philosophical discussion, that’s all… I got no problem with that. :-)

    I will stand by my statements. A man has to live by something, or else he lives for nothing. Don’t snitch is a basic tenet. I respect your arguments and points regarding Cgar, but I would not be one to drop the dime in this particular case. But I will concede a bit to you… There may be times in life where a man’s decision has to boil down to the lesser of two evils.

    I also want to clarify another of my earlier statements, regarding men (and women) who have served in the armed forces of this nation. I am and always will be a firm and proud supporter of our military, and I do and will give proper thanks. But… Just because any man is one of the millions that have worn the uniform, that does not instantly grant him acceptance into my inner circle. It’s definitely a mark in the plus column, but that’s not all it takes.

  12. Paladin Says:

    Based on the propaganda posted in the io website, along with statements made be the io members themselves that are quoted in the Folio Weekly story, coupled with the io penchant for baiting, I would think that a proprietor of any establishment would be well within their rights to refuse service to anyone displaying the mark of the io.

    Long May You Ride (to those that deserve to)


  13. RtC Says:

    Paladin, you would think, BUT the ALMIGHTY DOLLAR designates conduct.
    SAD fuckin’ world we live in these days.

  14. Jim666 Says:

    @MFFM Gorilla is their business. I never understood it, but it`s not for me to understand.
    As far as uc`s and feds patching in, 81 only had that happen one time Anthony Tate from the Alaska charter, never happened again, although some might say otherwise it never got that far, J-bird is lying scum just like any other badge carrying prick, no Rebels M/C in my neck of the woods, least not yet, aint seen any IO`s either, they better hope we don’t !

    As for someone mentioned snitching and doing time for a brother, my answer is never ever snitch on anyone no matter who it is not even your worst enemy or your clubs worst enemy, and if you can do 5 yrs to keep a brother from doing 10 do it period, no questions or answers needed mouth shut do your or your brothers time, FTP FTF ACAB FTIO

  15. Lady Says:

    Hi Jim an Muck..Huge hugs and much love to you both!!

    Now…if this is the Paladin that I know from across the pond…granted I have no way of verifying this…but if it is…he would rather die that condone snitching.

  16. Johnny76 Says:

    Iron Order MC IS NOT AN LE MC. They are just like any other 99% MC, they may have members who are LEO’s, but they DO NOT advertise or recruit as an LE MC. Nor wear an LE patch like majority of LEO clubs do.

  17. Sieg Says:

    Johnnyboy, go plant an apple tree.

    If a club accepts pigs, then it is a LE club, and that’s all it can ever be.

    I know of a FEW ex-pigs that were accepted in to major clubs, real clubs, that is, not little piggy-pax like the uorc, but in each case, it was only after they had extensively proven their loyalty.

    IF a clubs members are encouraged to rat people out, and urine odor members are constantly told by their den-daddy to do so, then they are not only no an MC, they aren’t even sphincter-slime on a whale.


  18. Base Says:

    Johnny76 Says:

    July 19th, 2014 at 4:55 am

    Iron Order MC IS NOT AN LE MC. They are just like any other 99% MC, they may have members who are LEO’s, but they DO NOT advertise or recruit as an LE MC. Nor wear an LE patch like majority of LEO clubs do.

    It’s no secret or that “they may have” “they do have” LE as members and use that connection. They even state they will rat out other clubs, just like good little tattle tails.

    You like running with or standing up for rats & snitches? You like being the laughing stock of the motor cycle community? You enjoy the status of poser?, Want a be? Has been? You wish to be shunned?

    Good for you!

    If they are like the 99% then they should loose the 3 piece patch,the black & white colors and switch to a one piece patch and drop the MC.

    They actually should disband all together.

    It was and has always been Izods and his original 8 intentions to provoke and instigate and make money off the pay to play crowd.

    Ray and his cronies will ride this mule for all it’s worth. And they could care less who gets burnt in the process as long as it’s not them.!

    And they have been very successful in that endeavor.

  19. Meh Says:

    “Snitching” on corrupt police operatives isn’t snitching on a brother or a civilian, and there is no moral obligation to pigs.

    Since zero reason exists not to consider IO an operation along the lines of COINTELPRO shenanigans of times past, zero reasons exist to display “honor” to insects.

    The IO is an example of asymmetric warfare. It inserts operatives where LEO openly on business cannot conveniently go, relies on saloon society culture WEAKNESSES (yes, they exist in any culture so know them), in this case otherwise-useful insularity, to avoid the only outcomes which can destroy it.

    The puppeteers only care if IO violate laws sufficient to provoke general public outrage and “taint the brand”. If you want to fight them then shitcan the gay sportsmanship and save it for ritual use.

    Turn on the lights and roaches scatter. We live in a surveillance state already turned against the public, so use information and data to counterattack. We don’t need IO involved in DoD or LEO functions, at all, as they are the antithesis of promoting freedom.

  20. Not Surprised Says:


    So in essence you are saying one could use the I/O roster and drop a dime on the LEO and active military members and still be cool?

  21. Phuquehed Says:

    I get what ‘Meh’ is saying. He’s saying that since the pigs, all pigs of all agencies, don’t play fair and never will and will break the law themselves to get something done *especially* if it’s wrong against one of us (or, I should say the real bikers in the real biker world, not against fucktards like the urine odor), that that makes it even playing grounds for us to narc on a bad pig if we see/find/know of one. That list is just a list of names that no one can use other than to look at. We can’t randomly pick one of those names off it and presume it’s a pig (though we’d probably win the bet that it is) and try to burn the air-wasting fuck any way possible. I believe Meh is saying since we now have a level playing field and the pigs are now *murdering* out in the open and thus far getting away with it, we’re on a losing end if we don’t use their shitty tactics right back at them and narc out *bad pigs*.

    It’s a motherfucker of a thing. A rat is a rat is a rat, but if it happened that the last biker of the last club left on the planet is about to get burned by the pigs and he sees or hears of or knows of a pig that did something he shouldn’t and broke the law doing so, should he rat that pig out or not? Would it be like that cool old blacklight poster from the 70’s that had a big-ass bald eagle coming in to snatch up a little mouse and the mouse is giving the bird the finger and the caption is ‘Last act of defiance’.

    I have to admit I’d *want* to…so bad that I could taste it…but I personally don’t think I could, but I also don’t think I’d look down on anyone that did burn any pig by whatever means possible.

    It’s a trail of tears and we’re walkin’ on broken glass with nothing but shower flip-flops on.

  22. Paul Says:

    When I was in training at Field Medical School, we had a guy get injured and fell out. Long story short, I used it as a lesson for the junior Corpsmen.

    I explained how sometimes they’re going to have to step up and tell whomever is in charge this Marine is in need of medical. The Marine won’t do it because he’s a warrior. To do so can cause him to lose esteem in his brothers’ eyes. But when doc does it, its okay, because medical said so.

    Win-win for all.

  23. steve Says:

    Seen two IO prospects on my way to work here in central Florida. Florida bottom rocker and mc cube. W.T.F…

  24. Nags Says:

    Steve, glad ur safe. I hear tire blowouts, brakes locking up, and other part failures have been causing cars to jump in front of motorcycles. Glad u made it to your destination in 1 PC.

  25. steve Says:

    Hey nags. That’s what I heard I was in my cage very large truck. I pulled in front of of themgave a hard brake check 3 times. Made my fucking day.

  26. Nags Says:

    Steve, For your sake (auto accidents are dangerous) Glad to hear you didn’t have a catastrophic failure. As for the shit sacks behind you, well…..

  27. Ahhh ok Says:

    Steve, I e been riding 30 years and I would never brake check ANYONE, no matter who their affiliation, etc. I don’t belong to shit, but if anyone brake checks me (and they have) I have marbles in the pouch on the bike that fly over my shoulder into their windshield!!! I wouldn’t wish a “brake-check” on anyone RUB, 1%’er, IOMC, Cop, Lone Wolf, anyone, and I hope that if you indeed do that that someone you do it to takes the same approach I do

  28. steve Says:

    Ahhh OK I use large washers instead of marbles they work better.

  29. Sieg Says:

    Sumpin to think on…

    I don’t tolerate a rat of any stripe, but if someone gives info to, say, a lawyer, helping a victims family in a civil-action, or defending someone from a heavy criminal charge they aren’t guilty of, that’s a whole other animal. It’s only ratting if you give info to the pigs, or if you pass info through someone to take someone down on criminal charges.

    I gotta meditate on that, but it sounds about right. Feel free to shoot holes in it.


  30. Paladin Says:


    I find myself in a unique position due to the fact that by the time I get involved in a case, the pigs have already broken the law and the plaintiff (civil) or defendant (criminal) and their respective attorneys are coming up to bat. I guess I’d be the one, just out of frame, doing my level best to help that mouse in the poster, and his / her PD or attorney. Win or lose, the cops don’t get a pass, ever.

    Long May You Ride,


  31. DesertH-D Says:

    Fellas… Start justifying upon whom it’s ok to act against your core values, and you start down a very slippery slope. Take care.

    I will speak for myself and say, my values do not depend on the other party. I don’t rat. I don’t snitch. For ME. It’s not dependent on whether the other party is a piece of shit, or the most down motherfucker I ever met… I don’t do it.

    My only grudgingly conceded point against that, previously made to Paladin on another thread, was that there “might” be times in a man’s life where he has to choose the lesser of two evils.

    Sieg – IMO, it is fine to provide testimony to assist another in their defense, or in a civil action, as long as there is no implication of a third party involved.
    E.g., if a brother (or really anyone) is accused of something, and you can provide testimony and/or evidence that he was somewhere else or otherwise didn’t do it, then one not only “can” do it, but should do it. The kicker is that 3rd party. One can’t say “Brother X didn’t do it because so-and-so did”. One CAN AND SHOULD say “Brother X didn’t do it, because I was with him, and we were clear across town doing tequila shots and hooking up with totally hot ladies”.

  32. Base Says:

    Some random thoughts on snitching.

    Snitch(s), a person or persons that chooses to supply information too who ever, cops, a third party, your old lady , with the intent of malice towards you or your group, for personal, perverse or financial gain.

    And the information provided rarely contains the truth nor do they stick to facts; instead they lie and embellish to better their own position.

    The scenario presenting evidence thus saving an innocent person from the gallows.

    Would this fall under righting a wrong? Possibly, and in some cases most defiantly.

    Of course in some situations it may be impossible not implicating a 3rd party.

    Truly a fine line and a very slippery slope for anyone of the standard or mind set of never snitching to navigate.

    Once a person or group of people are labeled snitch, it is a moniker and designation that is near impossible to shake unless irrefutable proof is presented. Even then suspicion lingers.

    This is one of the major issues about the IO. They claim to base their ideals on old school values of the clubs of the 50’s & 60’s even the 70’s. Dealing man to man. States it on their site and many of their members and supporters have come here on this site and spouted off to the letter.

    But yet, the reality is they are willing and even have it as part of their protocol to snitch and cooperate with authorities. Izod himself sent out a letter to that fact.

    Stay where there are witness/don’t go out side/call 911,,, remember that?

    Contradictive? White wash? Pissing down your back and convincing you it’s raining?

    Oh forgot about the homo erotica shit they like so much.

    Jerking you off and making you think your having sex with a hot chick! Just for you Izod!

    Oh wait, that’s were the “Man on Man” thing cum’s in!

    Oh shit, that’s a campy pun even for me! Oh what the hell funny none the less.

    OK, this comment turned out a little more than random thoughts, apologies. Sometimes I get on a roll.


  33. Sieg Says:

    Desert H-D, I agree. You got at what I was tryina say. IF there comes a time, and I believe there will, when the family of Nas T, or another victim of urine odor malfeasance, files charges against them then I believe it perfectly acceptable for a straight-up person to testify that yeah, I saw the guy you named shoot him, or to give information to their lawyer to be used in court.

    I wouldn’t have any more compunction about that than I would testifying against a pig that set-out a Brother.


  34. sniper Says:

    It all boils down to the fact that these people that think you have to ask them if its ok to start a club or wear patches on your vest are the American Taliban
    nothing more than domestic terrorist.

  35. Phuquehed Says:

    @sniper – You stupid fucktard. Shut the fuck up.

  36. panamaa Says:

    Well said Phuquehed….. I hate these io fucktards that come in here a week or two after the last comment and try to have the last say, especially when what they say is bullshit… Sinper, I got your Taliban hang’in…

    And,Hey sinper.. What he said…..

  37. Rusty Says:

    I remember a few years back on a forum having to do with motorcycles there was a guy outted as a fraud,,,,,, named sniper.

  38. TannedOne Says:

    Guessing the Douche Bags have gotten the “green light” to wear there “vests” again ?!!? Saw 1 at the Local Harley dealer wed. wearing vests & there was 12+ at a local Bike Night in New Port Richey,FL. thrusday night at the Winghouse on US-19 !!

  39. steve Says:

    Yeah they think they are tough acting like a bad ass but leave soon as a 1% shows up chicken shits

  40. Retired Says:

    If accepting LEO’S makes you a LEMC then most 1% clubs are cop clubs weather it was by infiltration or openly. And I’m seeing alot of 1% clubs that beat their chests over this gray area alot but have cop clubs in their COC’s in order to place pressure on independent clubs. I can’t stomach double standards and twisted truths, it smells to much like politics to me. Get back to minding your

  41. Shovelhead Says:

    We’ve all heard this before, and we all, including yourself, know it’s bullshit.
    If you’re a retired cop, then you know yourself that all Cops are cowards and rats. If you’re in the urine order then you know…all cops are cowards and rats!!
    No real Club would knowingly accept a cop.
    Clubs that do accept cops are cop clubs. Rats like to stick together.

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